2005 - What will it deliver ?

[rosewarne]

I've heard enough. If you Collingwood bogans wanna discuss who's better than who, then do it on the main board. This thread was obviously aimed at Carlton supporter's opinions, hence it was posted on the Carlton board. So get lost, you're not welcome here!

I can post on the carlscum board if i want to, so you get lost. My opinion is that carlton will play like absolute fishmongers.

 

[Chemical]

I can post on the carlscum board if i want to, so you get lost. My opinion is that carlton will play like absolute fishmongers.

Someone ban this idiot

 

[carlton16]

What about the beltings we gave you when we were at full strength. I can guarantee you that carlton will not get near collingwood this year. Another one of those 70 point games.

The Filth at full strength, what an outfit You got nothing you deluded clown

 

[Lajon]

The obvious fact to all is that Carlton have a young, talented list that are clearly on the rise whilst Collingwood are on the slide and will not achieve any more top end finishes with the current list.

And you talk about our draft penalties but in reality this hasn't hurt our current position all that much. Obviously with the additions of a Goddard, Wells and Cooney we'd have some very good future players but I think picks such as Waite, Norman, Thornton, Davies, Fisher etc we have unearthed some players of very good skill with late draft picks. I'd love to have Wells but atm, Cooney and Goddard have not really impressed me.

If you can honestly go through the Collingwood list and find anymore promising youngsters (say 22yrs old and younger) then the following, you are fooling yourself (not including this years draft picks as we haven't seen them yet):

- Cole
- Didak
- Fraser

And each of these names has serious question marks regarding aspects of their play.

Your best players are all nearing the twilight of their careers except for Tarrant and I can not see where any significant improvement will lie.

Carlton's list on the other hand has an absolute abundance of young talent at the moment. Admittedly, not the class of St Kilda or Geelong just yet but we are still very much developing.

I offer any Collingwood supporter to bring this thread back to life at the end of next season if you prove me wrong.

 

[rosewarne]

The obvious fact to all is that Carlton have a young, talented list that are clearly on the rise whilst Collingwood are on the slide and will not achieve any more top end finishes with the current list.

And you talk about our draft penalties but in reality this hasn't hurt our current position all that much. Obviously with the additions of a Goddard, Wells and Cooney we'd have some very good future players but I think picks such as Waite, Norman, Thornton, Davies, Fisher etc we have unearthed some players of very good skill with late draft picks. I'd love to have Wells but atm, Cooney and Goddard have not really impressed me.

If you can honestly go through the Collingwood list and find anymore promising youngsters (say 22yrs old and younger) then the following, you are fooling yourself (not including this years draft picks as we haven't seen them yet):

- Cole
- Didak
- Fraser

And each of these names has serious question marks regarding aspects of their play.

Your best players are all nearing the twilight of their careers except for Tarrant and I can not see where any significant improvement will lie.

Carlton's list on the other hand has an absolute abundance of young talent at the moment. Admittedly, not the class of St Kilda or Geelong just yet but we are still very much developing.

I offer any Collingwood supporter to bring this thread back to life at the end of next season if you prove me wrong.

I certainly well. And young TALENT. I'd say young rejects.

 

[Chemical]

I certainly well. And young TALENT. I'd say young rejects.

Its will you dumb bogan...

Our rejects beat you TWICE in the season. Get over it...Collingwood don't have any rejects because, for some reason, they kept their bad players.

 

[Collingwood_Forever]

If you guys hadnn't beaten us you could've had Blake Caracella, instead you guys picked up Eddie Betts. Well done guys, you achieved a lot by beating us twice. It had no barring on the top 8 what so ever, you were never going to make it. I really want to see the 2 sides go at it this year when they r boh at full strength. My prediction would be Collingwood by about 80 points.

Floreat Pica Roll on 2005
Collingwood Forever
Stick it up the navy blue and whte

 

[Funkalicous]

Good one mate I think I'll just let the reults speak for myself, it's done wonders this year.
Don't give us the "There was nothing to play for in round 22" crap. You know darn well there was plenty to play for. Why do you think Collingwood was trying so hard to win? In any case, our head to head record has taken a further lead from this year.

 

[silverphoenix]

you have an ageing midfield apart from Andrew Walker and your backline I feel is the worst in the AFL.

Ageing midfield hey!

Buckley = 33
Burns = 30
Woewodin = 27
Licuria = 26

Average age: 29.0

Koutoufides = 32
Camporeale 28
Stevens = 24
Walker = 18

Average age: 25.5 years

A difference of 3.5 years in average ages of our midfield compared to yours and yet you say we have an ageing midlfield!

Ahhh Collingwood supporters........ good for sh$t!

For starters, if you are going to compare midfields, put in your 1st string ruckman FFS!

And second, how put puting in the players that we are all more likely to see in the midfield next season. The chances of seeing the likes of bucks, burns and Kouta in their respected midfields next yr, for exteneded periods of time is minimal.

More than likely for next yr it will look more like this:

COLLINGWOOD:
Licuria: 27
Johnson: 24
Holland: 25
Didak: 22
And first string ruck
Richards: 22

Average age: 24

CARLTON:
Campo:30
Stevens:25
Walker: 19
Scotland: 25
And first string ruck:
French: 30

Average Age: 25.8

Looking at that collingwood would have the younger average in the midfield!

Now putting them head to head in the closest possible match up IMO it would be like this:

Campo vs Dutchy - Dutchy has more often than not won this contest, but usually gets suspended in the process.

Stevens vs Lica - Pretty close on that but ill give stevens the nod cause his possessions are usually more damaging, but lica gets more of it.

Scotty vs BJ - Another that is pretty close, but i think that BJ speed puts him over the line, as although scotty is one of my fav players his disposal isnt much better than BJs

Walker vs Dids - The nod goes to walker, on the grounds that he has shown more in the middle. Even though when dids was given the oppertunity he showed alot, walkers greater exposure in the middle wins that contest for him.

And Last but not least

French vs Stretch - Stretch hands down, will become one of the most dominant tap ruckmen in the game, while french is a complete dud, and with this in mind could be the spur for de-luca to come through the ranks and maybe at the 1/2 way mark of the season become the number 1 ruckman for the baggers.

So 3-2 in favour of the pies. I believe that its an open-minded look at both teams.

Although there are outlying factors that we are fogetting, while winning it out of the middle will help to win games, most forward drives now-a-days are comming from the backline, with quick "sweeper" type players running through the lines to send the ball forward, this is where i believe collingwood has the edge, as the only "sweeper" i can think of for carlton is houla, where as collingwood have cole, rowe, C.Morrison, and to some extent woewodin if he is put back to a back flank like he was when he won his brownlow.

Thats just my take on things, theres not a whole lot in it, and within 2-3 years the old enemies will be back fighting it out in finals once again. I for 1 know that i cant wait for this to happen.

And for those Carlton fans who believe that Collingwood is on the slide, here is some food for thought. How would the following teams go if you took out the following respective players all around about the same times of the year:

Brisbane:
Voss, Black, Michael, Power, Brown, lynch and Keating.

Stkilda: Riewolt, Gehrig, Hayes, Koshy, Hamil, Jones and Brooks

Geelong: King, Ablett, Scarlett, Ling, Sanderson, Mooney, Grahem.

Port Adelaide: Francou, Primus, Pickett, Tredrae, Wanganeen, Lade and Wilson.

The only team that fought on with losing players of the same calibre as what collingwood suffered in 04 were Port Adelaide, as they had the depth to cover it. This was brought on due to the fact that 2 of those injuries had happend the year b4, so a backup ruckman, and a top quality midfielder were available. THIS IS THE DEPTH THAT COLLINGWOOD WILL HAVE NEXT YEAR!!!!!

Im not preaching an instant rise to top of the ladder, but our team hasnt changed a lot from our 2 grand final appearences in 02,03. Even as Carlton supporters i am asking you to give credit where credit is due.

SP.

 

[Funkalicous]

For starters, if you are going to compare midfields, put in your 1st string ruckman FFS!

Why, so you can get an all important boost in average age? Face it, both our ruckman get creamed. They have little effect on who wins the center clearences.

And second, how put puting in the players that we are all more likely to see in the midfield next season. The chances of seeing the likes of bucks, burns and Kouta in their respected midfields next yr, for exteneded periods of time is minimal.

LOL! It's just a Collingwood supporter's fantasy to have a dangerous Buckley roving on a half forward flank. This will never happen in reality. Collingwood are a bottom 4 side and simply could not cover the loss of Buckley in the middle. Think back to when we played you earlier in the season. Buckley was rushed back from injury and thrown straight into the midfield. 'Twang'... big mistake! It seems Malthouse wasn't confident enough in your second string midfielders, that he had to risk playing Buckley on the ball. Don't forget this was a Carlton side that came off a hundred point thrashing the week before. If Malthouse can't stop Carlton's midfield, what's gonna happen when you play Brisbane? Buckley and Burnes will play midfield, as will Kouta. It's not rocket science, they're the best midfielders....

More than likely for next yr it will look more like this:

COLLINGWOOD:
Licuria: 27
Johnson: 24
Holland: 25
Didak: 22
And first string ruck
Richards: 22

Average age: 24

CARLTON:
Campo:30
Stevens:25
Walker: 19
Scotland: 25
And first string ruck:
French: 30

Average Age: 25.8

Looking at that collingwood would have the younger average in the midfield!

Less than likely IMO, but it suits you.. how fortunite

Campo vs Dutchy - Dutchy has more often than not won this contest, but usually gets suspended in the process.

You didn't honestly think you'd get away with this one did you? Let me get this straight, you think Holland is better than Campo? *slight pause* Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!! Surely you felt like an idiot writing that, but then again, if you gave Campo the points we would have won your pathetic comparisons. Mustn't let that happen should we?

Scotty vs BJ - Another that is pretty close, but i think that BJ speed puts him over the line, as although scotty is one of my fav players his disposal isnt much better than BJs

How often has Johnson played in the middle? How many 20+ posession games has he accumulated? How many goals has he kicked? I wouldn't give your hopes up thinking Johnson is your midfield's answer. Even if he plays there, look at this kicking...

French vs Stretch - Stretch hands down, will become one of the most dominant tap ruckmen in the game, while french is a complete dud, and with this in mind could be the spur for de-luca to come through the ranks and maybe at the 1/2 way mark of the season become the number 1 ruckman for the baggers.

Sure with that in mind....

Although there are outlying factors that we are fogetting, while winning it out of the middle will help to win games, most forward drives now-a-days are comming from the backline, with quick "sweeper" type players running through the lines to send the ball forward, this is where i believe collingwood has the edge, as the only "sweeper" i can think of for carlton is houla, where as collingwood have cole, rowe, C.Morrison, and to some extent woewodin if he is put back to a back flank like he was when he won his brownlow.

Heard of Lappin?

PS... I see you're recruiting trolls, Filth Forever:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148094

 

[silverphoenix]

Heard of Lappin?

Actually he did slip my mind, but 2 doesnt really stack up to 4, and on the campo vs dutchy match up, id take dutchy anyday, blankets while getting touches, one of the best taggers in the game, definatly in the top 5.

Btw, you sir, are a ********stick. If you had actually taken of those ****ter ole dark navy blue glasses off your ugly looking head, and read the post for what it was worth, you might have gotten the notion that me, like most collingwood supporters are looking forward to it being like the good old days where the true rivalries of the game were fought out passionatly, none of this new age made up on the spot cause we've played a couply of close games that could have gone either way, the rivalry between 2 of the most followed, most recognised and have the most passionate supporters, because our rivalry has spawned from over a centuary of these close struggles.

 

[Funkalicous]

Actually he did slip my mind, but 2 doesnt really stack up to 4, and on the campo vs dutchy match up, id take dutchy anyday, blankets while getting touches, one of the best taggers in the game, definatly in the top 5.

Btw, you sir, are a ********stick. If you had actually taken of those ****ter ole dark navy blue glasses off your ugly looking head, and read the post for what it was worth, you might have gotten the notion that me, like most collingwood supporters are looking forward to it being like the good old days where the true rivalries of the game were fought out passionatly, none of this new age made up on the spot cause we've played a couply of close games that could have gone either way, the rivalry between 2 of the most followed, most recognised and have the most passionate supporters, because our rivalry has spawned from over a centuary of these close struggles.

Where have you been? Essendon surpassed your mob years ago. You're now only the third most successful club.... You have no right comparing the sorry old magpies to Carlton!

 

[Abaddon]

collingwood has no place in this thread.
they're a bottom 4 team and can't see them getting out of the bottom 4 anytime soon either, especially with the likes of buckely and burns yet another year older.

 

[silverphoenix]

Where have you been? Essendon surpassed your mob years ago. You're now only the third most successful club.... You have no right comparing the sorry old magpies to Carlton!

I believe it was posted in another thread and i will try to locate it, but im pretty sure that has collingwood lead the premiership count for 55 of the 108 years. So maybe comparing essendon and collingwood is like comparing apples and oranges, because collingwood have been the far superior team since the start of our fabulous sport. Once again you have displayed the many qualities that make you a #1 ********STICK!

 

[L84AD8]

Seriously you cats are so funny. I have read so much about the great fortunes of Carlton football club for 2005 that it makes me wanna just hand over my memebership and convert to the old tattered Navy Blue....not!!!
Being in touch with reality obviously suits you guys,talking up walker like he is Simon black and thinking Kouta is great balls of fire stuff still and hell one dude listed your 'rotating midfield and Iam sure I saw names like McGrath,Johnson,Scotland,Bannister ,Mccormick,Boywer hell I cant go on...oh even Chambers???Are you guys serious???I know half the time we say stuff just to annoy eachother but Chambers???(has anyone seen him play)....As for Campo he is washed up and dryed up all in one...please dont tell me how much of a champion he is etc etc cos for the last few years in your rabble state he is one of your players who well and truly went missing..Even when we were a shell of a side ,Bucks was there week in week out, Campo counted his cashola smoking cubans with big Jack and u guys were bagging him like no other..Dont even start about Mcdonalds poster boy Blimpnall...and please dont get excited ovet a 10 kg weight loss issue, heart is what you need to play CHF and he simply barely has one.....and u guys know it, dont be deluded by his new found committment, my theory is easy come easy go....Hang your hat on Stevens and maybey the Fev when he having a footy show off week but thats about it...

Cmon guys ok waite will be a fine player as will walker and hell this russell kid will give you a bit but the rest are a rabble-ous motley crew who are basically discards thrown together and called Carlton. Lets face reality you guys will win a few but lose a few more...A few more quality picks and you might have something at the moment you have predominantly cattle out in the paddock.....Someone Dilbert predicted 13 wins will get you in the 8, well 13 wins will get you in the 6 as Sydney finished this year.Lets face reality..bowyer,Scoots,Chambers,Mcgrath,French,Prendergast,Bentick,BJohnson,Morrell wont get u top six....sorry guys!!!Bitch all u like....

 

[blues4flag]

Who cares about that? You're no longer 1st, and Essendon and Carlton surpassed you long ago. It's been 14 years since Collingwood's last premeirship, and in the last fifty years, the Pies have only one 3 premierships, compared to Essendon's 6 and Carlton's and Carlton's 8. And the Pies don't look like they're gonna improve soon, face it, you have an ageing list.

 

[Lajon]

If you guys hadnn't beaten us you could've had Blake Caracella, instead you guys picked up Eddie Betts. Well done guys, you achieved a lot by beating us twice.

Okay, in all honesty I would much rather we had taken Betts then Caracella. Caracella would do nothing to help our team as he is getting old and will be long gone before we are having a tilt at a premiership, whereas Betts will be one of the most exciting aboriginal prospects in the game in the next few years. Caracella is yet another silly drafting choice by the Pies. Was suited to a team like Brisbane where he could slot into an already hard side and add a bit of "soft class" around the fringes but not much else. Would be better suited with a side like Geelong I feel.

 

[Lajon]

Iam sure I saw names like McGrath,Johnson,Scotland,Bannister ,Mccormick,Boywer hell I cant go on...oh even Chambers???Are you guys serious???I know half the time we say stuff just to annoy eachother but Chambers???(has anyone seen him play)....

I have not seen much of Chambers but from what I've heard from Eagle supporters is that he will surprise many this year if given a fair go in the middle. West Coast have arguably the best midfield in the comp (Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher) and it does not say a lot about Chambers just because he couldn't cement a spot within that group. I'm not saying he's gonna be a star cause I just don't know, but because you haven't seen him play, it is extremely ignorant for you to bag him.

McCormick is no longer on the list so do a bit of research.

Bowyer doesn't make our best 22.

Bannister killed Buckley last year. (Oh boo hoo the Pies fans will whinge, "Bucks was injured")

McGrath is not a bad wingman who can get a bit of the ball and has a raking kick.

Johnson has a few problems with disposal but he goes in extremely hard and is a ball magnet.

and Scotland .... well try and bag him all you like but you are the first Collingwood supporter I have heard this from. Most are unbiased enough to admit he's a class player and realise he had a good year at the Blues (even with an ongoing ankle problem).

Yea, we've got some work to go on our list before we are a force in the comp but if you can honestly say that the future of your list looks brighter than ours than you have lost the plot.

I look forward to reflecting on this thread in a couple years time (be my opinions right or wrong)

 

[sainters]

2005 will deliver a Wooden Spoon, jk Carlton will finish 8-11th

 

[silverphoenix]

Who cares about that? You're no longer 1st, and Essendon and Carlton surpassed you long ago. It's been 14 years since Collingwood's last premeirship, and in the last fifty years, the Pies have only one 3 premierships, compared to Essendon's 6 and Carlton's and Carlton's 8. And the Pies don't look like they're gonna improve soon, face it, you have an ageing list.

Do carlton have an ageing list?
....
....
Yes?
...
....
......
No?
....
....
....
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Hopefully you have anweres the question before reading these 2 facts.
Carltons Average Age: 23
Collingwoods Average Age: 23!

OH MY GOD, BOTH TEAMS ARE HEAPS OLD.... YOU DUMB ********!

 

[L84AD8]

I have not seen much of Chambers but from what I've heard from Eagle supporters is that he will surprise many this year if given a fair go in the middle. West Coast have arguably the best midfield in the comp (Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher) and it does not say a lot about Chambers just because he couldn't cement a spot within that group. I'm not saying he's gonna be a star cause I just don't know, but because you haven't seen him play, it is extremely ignorant for you to bag him.

McCormick is no longer on the list so do a bit of research.

Bowyer doesn't make our best 22.

Bannister killed Buckley last year. (Oh boo hoo the Pies fans will whinge, "Bucks was injured")

McGrath is not a bad wingman who can get a bit of the ball and has a raking kick.

Johnson has a few problems with disposal but he goes in extremely hard and is a ball magnet.

and Scotland .... well try and bag him all you like but you are the first Collingwood supporter I have heard this from. Most are unbiased enough to admit he's a class player and realise he had a good year at the Blues (even with an ongoing ankle problem).

Yea, we've got some work to go on our list before we are a force in the comp but if you can honestly say that the future of your list looks brighter than ours than you have lost the plot.

I look forward to reflecting on this thread in a couple years time (be my opinions right or wrong)

Apologies regarding Chambers. Honestly I have seen him play I was being a little sarcastic which of course is the lowest form of wit but nonthless thats life......None, I repeat none of those players are worth a dime of lollies.As for Mccormick given your rotating door policy of players over the last few years it does not suprise that he has been cut. I can assure you the majority of those other players wont survive your future list culls either as quality kids come through which is inevitable as the draft process dictates.

Ok Scoots is skilled player granted. I have honestly likened him to a poor mans Nick Stevens but essentially thats all he will ever be..a poor mans version of anything. He will be a good support act to your Walkers , Waites, and Russell's...Pagan and Malthouse are not poles apart in coaching styles so let me assure you when some quality matures into Carltons side Scoots may struggle just as he did at Pieland for some regular game time.

As for your future looking brighter all I can say there perhaps you have convinced yourself that is true but we are not your only competition in these stakes. You guys simply dont compare to St kilda, geelong, Doggies,West coast and hell even Richomond when it comes to quality young kids.
In the cold light of a winters day you have three or four genuine kids and the rest are a case of crossing your fingers and hoping for the best until you delist them.

 

[Funkalicous]

As for your future looking brighter all I can say there perhaps you have convinced yourself that is true but we are not your only competition in these stakes. You guys simply dont compare to St kilda, geelong, Doggies,West coast and hell even Richomond when it comes to quality young kids.
In the cold light of a winters day you have three or four genuine kids and the rest are a case of crossing your fingers and hoping for the best until you delist them.

Worse talent than Richmond? Obviously you're basing this on the hope that all their high draft picks become guns. What a stupid basis to go on though, a team's young talent shouldn't be rated on the number of top ten draft picks. If you're gonna say our only good young players are Walker and Russell then ofcourse other teams have better youngsters. That's such an ignorant thing to say though. Fisher and Norman were late draft picks and have showed more than them two. Thornton was rookie listed and he's showed more than all of them. Would you like people to say Collingwood's only good young players are Didak and Egan?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Happy to debate all issues with our fine feathered friends in due course but business first.

Since some of you visitors are incapable of following BigFooty posting conditions, I have requested a couple of suspensions for the worst offenders ... stand by. The rest who would do well to remember that if you go on a team board and tell a team how crap you think they are (often with little regard to facts), you are inviting negative responses from the fans on that board, what's more they have the right to do so. Furthermore ... you then have zero right of abusive reply. Either articulate your point or post on your own board.

Geez, is it the holidays or what?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Get real guys....you have no hope in hell of making the top 8!!!!!!!!!!

No hope means no conceivable way in which we could make it. Now if I am not mistaken, we were 2 games out of the top 8 in 2004. We lost one game in the dying seconds against the Roos with a bogus umpiring decision, we stopped in the last 10 minutes when 3 goals up against the Swans, we put in a lazy effort to lose to the Dogs. There is 3 games we could conceivably turn around right there. Might not happen but it is conceivable. It is also conceivable that we can duplicate our 10 victories this year, might not happen but it IS conceivable.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Don't forget our midfield has 2 brownlow medalists in it and 2 best and fairest winners in burns and licuria.

If you righted the injustice of 2000, then there would be one brownlow medallist in each team. Doesn't matter though, I don't think too many believe that Woewodin comes close to Kouta so your point is worthless.

Don't compare any of your players with the great Nathan Buckley!!!!

That's fine, we'll stick to having a captain that nurtures his players and knows the meaning of the word humility.

I mentioned in my statement apart from Walker your midfield is ageing. You absolute half wit!!!

Carlton only have 4 players in their whole squad over the age of 26 and two of those are in the midfield. The rest of the midfield are 25 or under. Apart from the fact that we all age by the second, I would hardly suggest we have an old midfield.