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2005

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portentous said:
You've lost me...... :eek:
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AAaaargh!

IMO Damon White does not get picked ahead of others because we prefer versatile big men, preferably ruckmen.
IMO it has nothing to do with perceived or not perceived faults with his game, but preferred strategy by our coaching staff.
Now to take it one step further, had Ackland been fit he probably would have gotten a game ahead of White to replace Brogan.

Naturally that is only my opinion and it could easily be a load of crap.

Now if that is still confusing I will need someone else to translate it. :D
 
I'll simplify.

Ackland can ruck and play forward.
White can play forward.
Ackland is theoretically more versatile.
Choco likes versatile more than specialization.

If Ackland = uninjured, then White = out & Ackland = in.

:D
 
I think its more that Choco likes being able to trick the opposition coach with bizarre matchups, so a player that can participate in positional musical chairs well is a preferred option.

If Nick Stevens could play as a forward pocket, we might be in a very different world today.
 

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Porthos said:
I'll simplify.

Ackland can ruck and play forward.
White can play forward.
Ackland is theoretically more versatile.
Choco likes versatile more than specialization.

If Ackland = uninjured, then White = out & Ackland = in.

:D
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Danke. :D
 
Porthos said:
I think its more that Choco likes being able to trick the opposition coach with bizarre matchups, so a player that can participate in positional musical chairs well is a preferred option.

If Nick Stevens could play as a forward pocket, we might be in a very different world today.
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You're giving me nightmares Porthos! I hate it when Choco outsmarts even himself.......
 
Porthos said:
We have what will be a big weakness coming up, and we're not setting up to prepare for it. Why does this not concern you? :confused:
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It does, and I probably should have made that clear. But I think we still have a little time before we're in the poo. Wakes has another year in him, and Bish has probably a couple. Chad's in his prime, and we have good small backs (Wilbur should manage a few more years, Junior Burger will only get better).

This year they've experimented with Thrust, White, Ebo and Surge up forward - next year would be backmen, I would think. If it isn't, I will join you on the chorus, you won't have to ask.
 
But Pred have we experimented because weve wanted to or have we done it because we dont have a choice?

In Round 1 Pettigrew got a game because Wakelin was injured
In Round 2 Ebert got a game because Pickett was injured
White got a game because the players demanded he play
Surjan got games because of injury, ditto Chaplin.

Our young players cant fight their way into the side because they dont get an oppurtunity. You have to wonder if Pickett didnt do his collarbone in Round 1 if Ebert would have played the next week, or even half the games he played this year.
 
Porthos said:
...If Nick Stevens could play as a forward pocket, we might be in a very different world today.
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Do not talk about the Sydney final please.
 
Sometimes we may have had players who got their first opportunity when we had a lot of injuries, but that isn't so unusual. Now that he is in, faith has been shown in Ebert, and he has played 16 games so far this year.

That White actually did get a game when the players 'demanded' it, is great. I reality we all know the players can't actually 'demand' anything, and it was a case of Williams giving them a voice, then listening to that voice.

It really doesn't matter how or why players have been introduced. We have wanted several new players given a go in the last couple of years, and it has happened.
 
Our management of the youngsters under Choco would be just about the most successful of any AFL club. Most of the players Choco has made wait have turned into good players for us. 17-18 year olds are not fit enough to play 25 weeks of AFL football. He gives them chances when there are injuries. He made the tough decisions on Kingsley and Paxman last year, no reason he won't do the same on others this year. Brett and Symesy are the only fit youngsters at the moment. Brett is showing what happens when you play 17 games in your debut season, Symes has had 2 more games than he was supposed to have this year (by his own expectations). Most of the youngsters have been injured for significant periods this year and 18 year olds can't have 2-3 months off and come straight back in. You don't pick players because they're young, you pick them because they demand being picked otherwise they only get in if the opportunity is there due to injury.

Choco's gameplan and structure can be criticised but this treatment has worked too many times for people to still be criticising.

And if Ackland had been fit last week of course he would've come in. He's a ruckman and playing one ruckman is very very dangerous. (Don't try and tell me Thurstans is a ruckman)
 
I think its all been said before, Pred. You can only repeat yourself so much.

How many young talls have come into the side under Choco?
 

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So of actual regular players, it would be Brogan cracking the side at ~23, and Thurstans finally a regular at age 23.

This to me doesn't seem like stellar development.
 
I would be interested to see the breakdown of how many players in our current first-22 are either foundation players, from trades and from draft picks. Off the top of my head, our conversion of first-rounders to AFL football isn't exactly stellar...
 
Porthos said:
So of actual regular players, it would be Brogan cracking the side at ~23, and Thurstans finally a regular at age 23.
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You don't think White is now a regular? And as someone mentioned there's Cornes. Also Bassett, Morgan. Not Choco's fault they didn't work out.
 
So you reckon that less than 10 AFL games will tell you all you need to know about a tall?
 

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The Brothers Cornes, S. Burgoyne and Carr the only first-rounders I can currently think of in our regular line-up, and most recent drafting of those was 2000, was it not. I think the development and/or retention of Gilham, Chaplin and Salopek will be the determining factor in whether we remain at the top of the ladder long-term, or begin to drop. That's the main test, IMO.
 
B: Bishop (99/00 trade, 18 games at Melbourne), Wakelin (00/01 trade, 115 games at St Kilda), Wilson (foundation)
HB: Montgomery (99/00 trade, 60 games at Bulldogs), C.Cornes (97/98 draft pick), S.Burgoyne (00/01 draft pick)
C: K.Cornes (00/01 draft pick), Carr (98/99 draft pick), Cassisi (00/01 draft pick)
HF: Schofield (98/99 trade, 63 games at West Coast), Tredrea (foundation), Mahoney (03/04 draft pick)
F: Wanganeen (foundation), Thurstans (98/99 draft pick), Lade (foundation)
R: Brogan (00/01 rookie draft), James (foundation), P.Burgoyne (foundation)
I: Hardwick (01/02 trade, 153 games at Essendon), Cochrane (02/03 trade, 50 games at Kangaroos), Pickett (02/03 trade, 120 games at Kangaroos), Poulton (98/99 draft pick), Kingsley (foundation), Dew (foundation)

Inj: Primus (foundation), Francou (foundation)

Trade: 7
Draft: 8
Rookie: 1
Foundation: 10

Possibly would be there if not injured this year: Pettigrew, Surjan, Salopek
 
Porthos said:
So you reckon that less than 10 AFL games will tell you all you need to know about a tall?
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You mean White? No, but he is consistently showing a reasonable amount so far, more than anyone such as Bassett, Morgan and co. ever did. In my opinion if White is not now a regular, he soon will be.
 

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