2011 ATP World Tour Finals

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Tsonga takes out Nadal and moves into the SF along with Federer. The final matches of Group A tomorrow should be interesting. Ferrer has already qualified, but Berdych or Djokovic can miss out depending on results.

If Djokovic beats Tipsarevic in 2, Berdych must beat Ferrer in 2.
If Djokovic beats Tipsarevic in 3, Berdych just needs to win.

Djokovic can still qualify with a loss to Tipsarevic as long as Ferrer beats Berdych.

Can anyone shed some light as to why Nadal is paying $2.23 to beat Tsonga?

Injuries?

Although I'm sure Nadal fans will try and tell you otherwise, he's not injured. Just a bit rusty after a long break and playing on his worst surface (indoor hard court).

 

[gaelictiogar]

Can anyone shed some light as to why Nadal is paying $2.23 to beat Tsonga?

Injuries?

If you analyse Nadal's career on indoor hards you'll find it is ordinary enough. EG he would always be vulnerable against a Fed type player who wasn't spraying errors everywhere because Rafa for all his great qualities as a player just doesn't have the game to outwinner a shotmaker on such a court with any regularity.

Tsonga is hot and cold but on his day is a shotmaker. Thh bookies won't leave themselves vulnerable to a shotmaker against a baseline retriever on an indoor hard court. there is nothing more to it than that.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Tipsarevic def Djokovic 3-6, 6-3, 6-3
Berdych def Ferrer 3-6, 7-5, 6-1

Djokovic clearly spent after an amazing year. Underlines how good Federer was at his peak. Won 80+ matches (92 in 2006) and still finished strong in the year end championships. Djokovic ends the season with 70 wins, 6 losses and 1 WO.

SFs:

Roger Federer vs David Ferrer
Tomas Berdych vs Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

 

[pepsi]

Novak still would have made the semis had Berdych lost. Fed is in a really good patch at the moment and you would expect him to win the title. He has an amazing record at the WTF.

I think Fed will defeat Berdych in the final.

I am intrigued to see what is going to happen in 2012. Outstanding seasons (Djokovic 2011, Nadal 2008, Fed 2006) are always hard to back up. Will we see a new slam winner? On current form you would say that Fed is a great shot at another slam and players like Berdych and Tsonga might win one.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Both Federer and Tsonga got through in straight sets. I only watched the Federer SF, but he cruised through it doing only what was needed to get the win. Tsonga played very well against Berdych apparently.

Amazingly, this will be the 8th encounter between the two in 2011.

 

[crowsfan2004]

If you analyse Nadal's career on indoor hards you'll find it is ordinary enough. EG he would always be vulnerable against a Fed type player who wasn't spraying errors everywhere because Rafa for all his great qualities as a player just doesn't have the game to outwinner a shotmaker on such a court with any regularity.

Tsonga is hot and cold but on his day is a shotmaker. Thh bookies won't leave themselves vulnerable to a shotmaker against a baseline retriever on an indoor hard court. there is nothing more to it than that.

sure he is vulnerable on indoors however you fail to mention that he is a much better player on outdoor hardcourts and leads h2h there.So Federer "wasnt spraying" .Thats why Nadal has 17-9 winning record against Roger? I am far from a Nadal fan but your arguments are biased from the beginning.

Tsonga did it against Nadal, Delpo did it against Nadal, Gonzalez did it against Nadal and hit him off the court.But its bloody difficult to keep it up set after set.Dont get your hopes up that he will be able to hit him off the court at Melbourne Park.

 

[crowsfan2004]

Federer was serving for the match.Shame he couldnt close it.Tsonga in the match now 1 set all

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Federer wins his 70th title in his 100th career final. He now stands alone with 6 year-end championships (ahead of Sampras and Lendl with 5).

Final score was 6-3, 6-7, 6-3. Federer led 6-3, 4-2* and 15-40. He then served for the match in the second set at 5-3 and had match point at 6-5 in the TB. Thank christ he didn't let another lead slip in a big match against Tsonga.

Fed also finishes the year with 17 consecutive wins. Not sure what it means for his slam prospects in 2012 considering he also had a very strong finish last year.

to ESPN coverage instead of the usual Tennis Channel coverage. Not a fan of the commentary and didn't even get to see the presentation.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Federer wins his 70th title in his 100th career final. He now stands alone with 6 year-end championships (ahead of Sampras and Lendl with 5).

Final score was 6-3, 6-7, 6-3. Federer lead 6-3, 4-2* and 15-40. He then served for the match in the second set at 5-3 and had match point at 6-5 in the TB. Thank christ he didn't let another lead slip in a big match against Tsonga.

Fed also finishes the year with 17 consecutive wins. Not sure what it means for his slam prospects in 2012 considering he also had a very strong finish last year.

to ESPN coverage instead of the usual Tennis Channel coverage. Not a fan of the commentary and didn't even get to see the presentation.

If we look at the end of year event as a kind of 5th major he now has 22 wins in the 5 most prestigious events. Superb.

As to what it means for next years majors? Not a lot. 3 setters on his best surface play to his strengths. 5 setters in a slam make room for the lapses of concentration that mark his game. The fact remains that the salms are traditionally very dismissive of the hopes of the over 30s. He could well win of course such is his talent but any win will be against the odds.

 

[Ricketts]

Well done Rog on winning in the 100th final.

 

[crowsfan2004]

Congrats Roger Federer on an outstanding achievement.

 

[gaelictiogar]

sure he is vulnerable on indoors however you fail to mention that he is a much better player on outdoor hardcourts and leads h2h there.So Federer "wasnt spraying" .Thats why Nadal has 17-9 winning record against Roger? I am far from a Nadal fan but your arguments are biased from the beginning.

Tsonga did it against Nadal, Delpo did it against Nadal, Gonzalez did it against Nadal and hit him off the court.But its bloody difficult to keep it up set after set.Dont get your hopes up that he will be able to hit him off the court at Melbourne Park.

My point was about indoor hardcourts and you agree with me. I am "biased" and openly admit it. I prefer the graceful and the elegant to the application of grunt and effort. I prefer one handed to two handed backhand. I prefer Messi to Ronaldo for similar reasons.

Rafa has a career H2H record against Roger for 2 reasons.

1. His southpaw game is set up to trouble Roger. It is ugly and tiresome to watch, a kind of revved up Agassi. but it is highly effective when executed by a player at the top of his fitness. However i think the "keep it up" argument applies as much to Rafa as to anyone else. The wear and tear tells eventually. Even in losing to him Roger always hits more winners. It is the unforceds "sprayed around", the infamous "Federrors" that beat him. He does it against everyone but rafa punishes him for it. Indeed even in the demolition in London Roger played 8 unforceds to Rafa's 7 !! Ultimately Federer is always playing himself. Rafa's tenacity means he stays in rallies nad roger beats himself by lapsing concentration.

2. Most of their meeting have been on clay with Roger a more regular finalist on his weaker courts than Rafa on his.

 

[crowsfan2004]

Federrors? you see he is spraying but you dont ask why? so when Roger wins its his elegance and grace that won it for him.While losing its "Federrors"? you are a Richmond fan, you should know a fair bit about ownage.If you take clay and indoors out of the equation, Rafa has a winning record against Roger! still. 2-2 in slams.Your theory falls apart here.

You are one of the few that did not enjoy watching Agassi. I loved Andre Agassi, i do not love Nadal but i admire his angles and his passion and hardwork that he made so much out of the little talent he has.Infact i admire him more than Roger, cause Roger is like spoiled talented.

Nadal was the first to admit in his press conference that Federer when he plays like this is unbeatable.Its called humility, which you must appreciate.You are just as bad as Total Power was with his hatred for Roger.Suck it up and admit it.

You can comeup with his Federror excuses, but this is the first time he was able to hit Rafa off the court.First time in 26 meetings.You cannot take it as a benchmark.I can bet you in Australian Open it will be Federror again.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Federrors? you see he is spraying but you dont ask why? so when Roger wins its his elegance and grace that won it for him.While losing its "Federrors"? you are a Richmond fan, you should know a fair bit about ownage.If you take clay and indoors out of the equation, Rafa has a winning record against Roger! still. 2-2 in slams.Your theory falls apart here.

You are one of the few that did not enjoy watching Agassi. I loved Andre Agassi, i do not love Nadal but i admire his angles and his passion and hardwork that he made so much out of the little talent he has.Infact i admire him more than Roger, cause Roger is like spoiled talented.

Nadal was the first to admit in his press conference that Federer when he plays like this is unbeatable.Its called humility, which you must appreciate.You are just as bad as Total Power was with his hatred for Roger.Suck it up and admit it.

You can comeup with his Federror excuses, but this is the first time he was able to hit Rafa off the court.First time in 26 meetings.You cannot take it as a benchmark.I can bet you in Australian Open it will be Federror again.

I do admire Nadal's passion, his determination and his humility. He is in many ways a model sportsman. My dismissal of his play is not a dismissal of him as a person. I also accept his southpaw style troubles Roger on any surface. Every sport has instances of a lesser talent causing trouble for the greater talent for a set of specific reasons based on style and set up.

You are correct to say that he has made more of his talent than Roger has.

It is like the 2010 Champions League Inter VS Barcelona if you remember. Mourinho's Inter harried, chased, tackled and played their hearts out. They won. Admirable and impressive.......and dull. Barcelona's shots were more numerous, more creative, more aggressive. They lost but attractively. Similarly with the Fed V Nadal games. I DO admire Nadal but I won't watch him. Too mundane. Too boring. Federer is more spolied and sulky - he is a sulker in defeat - but I watch because he is the Messi of tennis, the Jordan of tennis, the Nijinsky or Nureyev of tennis.

I am talking for myself. I am essentially a footy fan. That is my sport. Other sport wil attract my eye when it is special. Federer attracts my eye. Messi does. He is the only soccer player I watch. McEnroe - the only player to approach Fed's pure talent - caught my attention. It's just my view on it.

 

[crowsfan2004]

Gaelic mate,thats ok.Its a purely subjective opinion but no boring person can win a "sportsman of the year award". I am not sure if there are any tennis fans in the world who does not enjoy the Rafa Roger rivalry.I am a Del Potro fan, but i enjoy Rafa/Roger rivalry just like everyone else.Their epic battles even goes beyond Sampras Agassi rivalry (which was pretty much one sided in grand slams).

I like angles and creativity on court.Rafa offers that.I dont find him boring.His angles and creativity is exceptional on court.Roger is exceptional as well..but who am i to judge these elite athletes? can we not just stop bagging players and appreciate tennis for a second? just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Chris_2593]

Someone always has to turn every tennis thread into a ****ing Nadal Vs Federer thread. Make a new thread if you wanna do it.