2nds 2011 VFL side

[Belisarius]

I thought last year we had a pretty good VFL side - however this turned out to be an over assessment - even if injuries were taken into account.

I am hoping that big Dawson might make some progress and give us a good ruck combination with Mark Blake and West, a reasonable midfield with Bundy, Duncan, Guthrie and Hogan.

The backline with Drum, Gillies, Smedts and B. Johnson, Weston and Stringer looks quite good if inexperienced.

The forward line with Brown, Walker, Motlop and Menzel - maybe ok as well.

And I expect there maybe a few senior players also playing in the side besides Blake to assist the side with some experience.

Can more knowledgeable posters provide a likely VFL side in their positions and a prognostication of the VFL sides form and final position - will they make the 8 ?

 

[hbk_aus]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Hopefully A.Varcoe plays a part later in the year as well. And dont forget T.Selwood. Should be a much more competitive team if they (or the seniors) dont get too many injuries with last years draft picks having a year under their belt and this years (hopefully) impressive batch, as well as our 4 rookies.

 

[Selective Retention]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

So for the sake of the exercise I've assumed Mackie comes into the prelim side for Judas as the only change. I'd hope there will be more changes than that under Scott but I'll work off that side for simplicity.

B: Guthrie Gillies Weston
HB: T.Hunt Drum Smedts
C: Duncan Hogan Cowan
HF: Menzel Brown Simpkin
F: Motlop B.Johnson Vardy
R: Blake T.Selwood Christensen
I: West Horlin-Smith Schroder Simpson Stringer Walker Burbury Bathie

And people complain about the lack of KPPs drafted, I can't see what we are going to do with the talls we have.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Our VFL side obviously lacks experience and mature bodies, which is part of the reason why Selwood was recruited, apart from the fact that he's a Selwood. I'd like to see us recruit one or two more experienced hard bodied VFL players to help out from the VFL list, particularly midfield wise.

If we assume no major changes from prelim we will get:
B: Smedts Gillies Firman
HB: Weston Lonergan/Drum Guthrie
C: Cowan Menzel THunt
HF: Motlop Vardy Duncan
F: Brown BJohnson Walker
R: Blake TSelwood Christensen
Int (from): Simpson Simpkin GHS Bathie Hollmer Raidme Stringer Burbury etc

Although I'd like to see Motlop Duncan Menzel Drum/Gillies etc push up and Milburn Mooney Ling etc push down.

The side has plenty of forward options and we didn't struggle to kick goals last year.

The mids is talented but bar Selwood and Duncan they're all physically light so that's an issue.

The defence is pretty short, particularly if Gillies or Drum push up into seniors.

I'd say given how much youth we have, and we lost DJ who was out leading Liston vote winner, and Gamble, who was quite good, as well as Laidler who held down CHB, that it will be a challenging year...maybe finish 10th or so.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

So for the sake of the exercise I've assumed Mackie comes into the prelim side for Judas as the only change. I'd hope there will be more changes than that under Scott but I'll work off that side for simplicity.

B: Guthrie Gillies Weston
HB: T.Hunt Drum Smedts
C: Duncan Hogan Cowan
HF: Menzel Brown Simpkin
F: Motlop B.Johnson Vardy
R: Blake T.Selwood Christensen
I: West Horlin-Smith Schroder Simpson Stringer Walker Burbury Bathie

And people complain about the lack of KPPs drafted, I can't see what we are going to do with the talls we have.

The general policy is that the first year players don't play every game, so Walker won't.

Actually, the side is not overly tall, the issue is that it's too tall up front and too short down back, as Jester said, so for balance one of the forwards is going to have to be sacrificed to the defence.

 

[hamG]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Going through those names there is a lot of athletic talent in all positions.

In fact, if you lined up the VFL team and the AFL team and had a foot race man on man the VFL side would win the vast majority of contests.

 

[you pick one]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Our VFL side obviously lacks experience and mature bodies, which is part of the reason why Selwood was recruited, apart from the fact that he's a Selwood. I'd like to see us recruit one or two more experienced hard bodied VFL players to help out from the VFL list, particularly midfield wise.

If we assume no major changes from prelim we will get:
B: Smedts Gillies Firman
HB: Weston Lonergan/Drum Guthrie
C: Cowan Menzel THunt
HF: Motlop Vardy Duncan
F: Brown BJohnson Walker
R: Blake TSelwood Christensen
Int (from): Simpson Simpkin GHS Bathie Hollmer Raidme Stringer Burbury etc


Question,if you have Lonergan playing in the two's who do you have in mind that would have the height,strength and experience to take on the Gorillas like Franklin Cloke Kosi, ex cetera.Or would you consider only playing him against that type of opponent,and dropping him against shorter back lines.
Maybe you have written him off all together I hadn't considered that, but I expect not.
Love him or hate him he seems to me to be the only option we have at least short term in that height range down back.
The first five games of the season will hopefully give us some answers as to game plan and personal under Chris ....Can't wait!!

 

[S for September]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Our VFL side obviously lacks experience and mature bodies, which is part of the reason why Selwood was recruited, apart from the fact that he's a Selwood. I'd like to see us recruit one or two more experienced hard bodied VFL players to help out from the VFL list, particularly midfield wise.

If we assume no major changes from prelim we will get:
B: Smedts Gillies Firman
HB: Weston Lonergan/Drum Guthrie
C: Cowan Menzel THunt
HF: Motlop Vardy Duncan
F: Brown BJohnson Walker
R: Blake TSelwood Christensen
Int (from): Simpson Simpkin GHS Bathie Hollmer Raidme Stringer Burbury etc


Question,if you have Lonergan playing in the two's who do you have in mind that would have the height,strength and experience to take on the Gorillas like Franklin Cloke Kosi, ex cetera.Or would you consider only playing him against that type of opponent,and dropping him against shorter back lines.
Maybe you have written him off all together I hadn't considered that, but I expect not.
Love him or hate him he seems to me to be the only option we have at least short term in that height range down back.
The first five games of the season will hopefully give us some answers as to game plan and personal under Chris ....Can't wait!!

We have an AA fullback and CHB don't we?

 

[you pick one]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

We have an AA fullback and CHB don't we?

We quite often have to to go back to Lonergan when there getting touched by bigger opponents,lets be honest here Taylor had the better of Riewoldt on a couple of wet days he admits that him self.
We need one genuine tall option I don't care who it is but It's not Gillie's or Drum if our AA's are getting burnt those two would be incinerated.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

PO's VFL side -

B: Smedts Gillies Firman
HB: Weston Lonergan/Drum Guthrie
C: Cowan Menzel THunt
HF: Motlop Vardy Duncan
F: Brown BJohnson Walker
R: Blake TSelwood Christensen
Int (from): Simpson Simpkin GHS Bathie Hollmer Raidme Stringer Burbury etc

From what I read here on the Board there is some talent in this side. Just lacks some experience and some larger bodies.

Not sure Lonergan will play in the seniors or th twos - but if he plays in the VFL team - the tall KP back we need will be covered. He is good enough at this level to do well.

Not sure why Hogan is not in the VFL side above - perhaps OP thinks he will take Ablett's spot.

I assume West was not also mentioned as he will fill the second ruck position. He could also play CHB in the twos if he was not in the seniors.

So I think given the talent combined with inexperience and lack of body strength we can still make the 8. We might be a bit up and down.

I have a feeling though we will see some senior players having some time in the VFL side - and this will help us get into the 8.

Looking forward to seeing Smedts, Guthrie and Schoder (not in the side above but I am sure he will make the twos straight up) - as these guys seem a reasonable size and could have an impact on the VFL side fairly quickly.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Question,if you have Lonergan playing in the two's who do you have in mind that would have the height,strength and experience to take on the Gorillas like Franklin Cloke Kosi, ex cetera.Or would you consider only playing him against that type of opponent,and dropping him against shorter back lines.
Maybe you have written him off all together I hadn't considered that, but I expect not.
Love him or hate him he seems to me to be the only option we have at least short term in that height range down back.
The first five games of the season will hopefully give us some answers as to game plan and personal under Chris ....Can't wait!!

I'd rather 2 tall defenders plus Drum or Gillies instead of Lonners as both are more mobile and flexible and can use the footy which he can't. Having said that, the interchange rule will mean most teams play 3 talls up front (2 plus a ruckman), so Lonergan may not be dropped because he's an ideal matchup for that guy. I still feel as good a year as he had, if we're going to get the ball out and over the zone we'd be better off with someone else who isn't dead with the ball in hand. But I take your point.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

PO's VFL side -

B: Smedts Gillies Firman
HB: Weston Lonergan/Drum Guthrie
C: Cowan Menzel THunt
HF: Motlop Vardy Duncan
F: Brown BJohnson Walker
R: Blake TSelwood Christensen
Int (from): Simpson Simpkin GHS Bathie Hollmer Raidme Stringer Burbury etc

From what I read here on the Board there is some talent in this side. Just lacks some experience and some larger bodies.

Not sure Lonergan will play in the seniors or th twos - but if he plays in the VFL team - the tall KP back we need will be covered. He is good enough at this level to do well.

Not sure why Hogan is not in the VFL side above - perhaps OP thinks he will take Ablett's spot.

I assume West was not also mentioned as he will fill the second ruck position. He could also play CHB in the twos if he was not in the seniors.

So I think given the talent combined with inexperience and lack of body strength we can still make the 8. We might be a bit up and down.

I have a feeling though we will see some senior players having some time in the VFL side - and this will help us get into the 8.

Looking forward to seeing Smedts, Guthrie and Schoder (not in the side above but I am sure he will make the twos straight up) - as these guys seem a reasonable size and could have an impact on the VFL side fairly quickly.

That was my theory. I don't care who's spot he takes but I don't want to see him left in the 2's.

West will play 1's because of the interchange rule. Either him or Vardy but West is more ready body wise. Blake won't. Simpson might.

 

[you pick one]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

I'd rather 2 tall defenders plus Drum or Gillies instead of Lonners


Trust me when I say this,P.O. so would I but the fact remains Scarlett,Taylor,Gillies,Drum,Mackie, and Joel Corey would all fit in to the same size jumper and shorts.differences in skills and talent but all very much the same size 191 to 192cm with Harry the odd man out at 193cm.
Not what I would call scary tall tall.
Really good HB Flanker height.Just give me one big body please.PO.
May be Hawkins.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

I'd rather 2 tall defenders plus Drum or Gillies instead of Lonners


Trust me when I say this,P.O. so would I but the fact remains Scarlett,Taylor,Gillies,Drum,Mackie, and Joel Corey would all fit in to the same size jumper and shorts.differences in skills and talent but all very much the same size 191 to 192cm with Harry the odd man out at 193cm.
Not what I would call scary tall tall.
Really good HB Flanker height.Just give me one big body please.PO.
May be Hawkins.

I agree although Gillies is definitely a KP and Drum can pinch hit that, although he's better in the Harley type role.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that we need a 'big bodied' CHB. Taylor got murdered in the QF because of aerobic capacity, not body size. And in any case, Hawkins has one of the worst aerobic tanks of any of our tall players, so he is not a KPD option at least not now.

I'm fine with Lonergan in the side if post Scarlett retiring they think he's the best fullback in the short term. But I'm not fine with playing him as a nanny to Taylor, or at full back so we can pursue a ridiculous policy of Scarlett becoming a 'run off player'. On that I agree totally with Partridge.

 

[you pick one]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

Hawkins was a bit tongue in cheek, NANNY TO TAYLOR beautifully put I'd have gone with insurance but you've summed it up masterfully.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: Our VFL side 2011 season.

I agree although Gillies is definitely a KP and Drum can pinch hit that, although he's better in the Harley type role.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that we need a 'big bodied' CHB. Taylor got murdered in the QF because of aerobic capacity, not body size. And in any case, Hawkins has one of the worst aerobic tanks of any of our tall players, so he is not a KPD option at least not now.

I'm fine with Lonergan in the side if post Scarlett retiring they think he's the best fullback in the short term. But I'm not fine with playing him as a nanny to Taylor, or at full back so we can pursue a ridiculous policy of Scarlett becoming a 'run off player'. On that I agree totally with Partridge.

There are certain things to happen - Scarlett will retire in 2-3 seasons and Milburn is in his last year. So we need 2 really good players to fill their shoes.

Milburn would have nearly played 300 games and that in itself says plenty about what he has done down back for us.

Scarlett is more than a once in a generation player. He is the best full back we have ever had in the clubs history.

Add in the loss of Egan - and the backline has taken or will take a serious loss in the the next 2-3 years. Most clubs would struggle if this happened - and then add in the loss of Harley as a player and Captain.

Enright has become a better player and we have added Taylor. But still without a real step up by a few players we will have a good but only fair backiline to go into the future in our quest for another Premiership.

Do not think Lonergan can be a another Egan, THunt could well replace JHunt - adding pace and will maybe as effective. Who will be the new Harley ? - maybe Drum bit an unknown - same true for Smedts.

Then we need Gillies to stand up and maybe play FB - but even if turns out a seriously good player he will be no Scarlett.

Mackie will hopefully step and have a better season next year.

So I think the best we can hope for in the next few years is a quicker and better kicking backline - but not a better back line than at our peak (2007).

To make it as effective I agree we need another very good position KB. Maybe B. Johnson ? So we need 3 good new backmen in the next 2 seasons - big ask but possible.

To make sure we then improve we need a slightly better midfield - and the loss of Ablett is basically impossible to cover. We have a lot of possible players that could take their place in the midfield and do well - but it would be foolish to think we can get an equal.

It seems that Ottens is on the way out - passed his best. I think he could still be around in for 2 more seasons if he had a few good preseasons and no more injuries. But it seems unlikely.

Maybe West maybe ok but I doubt he will impact the ruck position in any dominant as Ottens could. Dawson may yet become a dominat ruckman given his height and relative mobility. But another unknown.

Then there is the forward line - where out greatest improvement can come I believe. I think Pods will get better and we have not had a real FF for a long time now - even in 2007. Mooney is slowing down but still our best option as a KPF lead up player. However Vardy or Brown may become a good replacement for him.

Menzel and Motlop may yet become good players with SJ still active.

Hawkins may yet come good.

I think we can improve with a general raising of the level of our weakest links. I think Duncan and a few others mights replace Byrnes and Stokes - with more skill, pace and pressure.

I think we might be able to have a bit more general depth as well in the next 2 seasons if a few players start to improve in the twos as we would expect.

So GFC faces a hard task becoming a better team re the players over the 2007 side - but we can be a quicker, more skilled by foot and perhaps apply greater pressure over all.

This means that we could have a more even side with less outright champions - but still a very, very good side that with more experience and pre-seasons- be a Premiership contender again.

Hard to go past the 2007 side. A new coach and a slightly tweaked playing style, tactics and strategy combined with youthful enthusiasm may yet bring results.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's a very good summary Bel, hard to know where we will end up as it will take time to see which of our draftees come on, and who we trade for etc.

For me the biggest area of concern is still the ruck, and will probably have to be addressed at the trade table because the hit rate on drafted rucks tends to be low. The backline is very good actually in that THunt is very good, Weston will be also, and Smedts and Guthrie are super talents. The issue is the key positions and as you identify Scarlett is irreplacable.

I think Drum will reprise the Milburn/Harley role well as his skillset is similar to theirs, and we'll have to hope Gillies comes on and try and find one more KPB. As I said though, Lonners should really only take FB if he's deemed to be the best option there (ahead of Gillies presumably), not because we need a nanny for anyone else. In principle though, I want as many guys in our back half as possible who can use the footy with zones and all.

The forward line has real potential as Pods will hold down the short term (and is seriously underrated by a lot of people) and we have to hope Brown and Motlop stop getting injured and Hawkins gets fitter. Time will tell.

 

[AM]

That's a very good summary Bel, hard to know where we will end up as it will take time to see which of our draftees come on, and who we trade for etc.

For me the biggest area of concern is still the ruck, and will probably have to be addressed at the trade table because the hit rate on drafted rucks tends to be low. The backline is very good actually in that THunt is very good, Weston will be also, and Smedts and Guthrie are super talents. The issue is the key positions and as you identify Scarlett is irreplacable.

I think Drum will reprise the Milburn/Harley role well as his skillset is similar to theirs, and we'll have to hope Gillies comes on and try and find one more KPB. As I said though, Lonners should really only take FB if he's deemed to be the best option there (ahead of Gillies presumably), not because we need a nanny for anyone else. In principle though, I want as many guys in our back half as possible who can use the footy with zones and all.

The forward line has real potential as Pods will hold down the short term (and is seriously underrated by a lot of people) and we have to hope Brown and Motlop stop getting injured and Hawkins gets fitter. Time will tell.

When he performs regularly away from Skilled we'll re-assess.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

When he performs regularly away from Skilled we'll re-assess.

Bring on 2011 then I say. You'll see.

Geez 49 goals he might have to kick 149 before he isn't underrated on BF anymore!

 

[AM]

Bring on 2011 then I say. You'll see.

Geez 49 goals he might have to kick 149 before he isn't underrated on BF anymore!

C'mon PO even you must acknowledge he's done very little away from Skilled. Would love to see him turn it on away from Skilled this year. Maybe we'll just have to wait 'til Brownie hits his straps at CHF and continually rams it down his throat lace out.

 

[you pick one]

C'mon PO even you must acknowledge he's done very little away from Skilled. Would love to see him turn it on away from Skilled this year. Maybe we'll just have to wait 'til Brownie hits his straps at CHF and continually rams it down his throat lace out.

We strike better opposition away from home that's got a bit to do with it.

 

[AM]

We strike better opposition away from home that's got a bit to do with it.

Good point. Didn't seem to make any difference to Jimmeh, J.S, the guy that left us, Boris, Chappy et al tho. So are you suggesting he can't quite cut it when he needs to step-up?

 

[you pick one]

Good point. Didn't seem to make any difference to Jimmeh, J.S, the guy that left us, Boris, Chappy et al tho. So are you suggesting he can't quite cut it when he needs to step-up?

Trouble with forwards like Pods no other stats count, it's all about how many did Pods kick today. That other guy that left, can kick no goals have 37 handballs 8 kicks run around in ever diminishing circles till he disappears up his own clacker and still get best on ground.

 

[Belisarius]

For what its worth - I think that Pods will improve next season - even without as dominant mid-field. He will get some confidence from last season's results. Has good hands and many Cat's players will kick to him one out.

I just hope Kelly plays more mid-field as he is a very good player - and his talent would be better utilised.

And I agree with PO if Ottens does not get some form back we look weak in the ruck division. For me the only real glimmer of hope is Dawson Simpson. And I am not overly confident he will be ever near Ottens at his best.

We have a lot more possible players who can fill the flanks and wings - that could add to the side. But KP players we seem to have some concerns - as the pool is a little less in number and potential.

So if I had a few wishes it would be that Simpson and Brown - and maybe Vardy come good. WE need 3 tall players to come good soon for us to be competitive in the next 2-3 seasons. I am confident we can get a few very good flankers and wingers into the side over the same period of time.

 

[Vdubs]

We strike better opposition away from home that's got a bit to do with it.

How true that is. Our amazing record at Skilled is mainly due to the poorer teams we have to play there. When was the last time we got to play Saints, Pies, Blues at Geelong?