2012 list management.

[CoastBhoy]

Toy is goneski , will be traded club has said .

 

[CoastBhoy]

Gold Coast Suns set to send Josh Toy home, Melbourne Demons ready to move on forward Lucas Cook

• By Al Paton

Josh Toy ... likely to be sent back to Victoria to kickstart his career. Source: David Clark / News Limited
One of Gold Coast Suns' most frustrating talents is set to be traded home to Victoria, but the amount of clubs circling remains unclear.
Josh Toy, the running defender with a booming right foot, was signed as a silky 17-year-old in 2010 and regarded as one of the brightest teenage talents in the land.
But Toy has suffered a bitterly disappointing two seasons, earning just eight AFL games and facing the chop from Gold Coast’s injury-ravaged round 23 side in a clear sign he was on the outer.
Toy lined up in 14 reserves matches in the NEAFL this season but failed to impress there, failing to earn a mention in his side's best three players.
The Suns used one of their precious pre-draft signings on Toy under the same rule which gifted Greater Western Sydney exclusive access to the likes of budding stars Adam Treloar, Jeremy Cameron and Dylan Shiel.
Toy, 20, could not muster more than three kicks in any of five AFL matches this season, but looks certain to earn a second chance on the back of his blistering form at TAC Cup outfit Calder Cannons.
The Suns face drastic list changes across the next month with AFL rules forcing their 46-man squad to be trimmed to 42, while also making way for a minimum three draftees.
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Melbourne Demons key forward Lucas Cook is in a similar situation to Toy.
Taken at pick No. 12, Cook failed to break through for a debut as a key forward with critics doubting parts of his game, primarily his acceleration.
The Dees are keen to be heavy players in the month-long free agency and trade window as they strive to inject a range of teenage talent and boom mature-age recruits into their list.
Essendon are another club starting to compile some trade bait with key forward Scott Gumbleton no certainty to stay at the club.
The first-round draft pick is believed to have only been offered a one-year contract by the Bombers, who are salivating at the imminent arrival of ruck-forward Joe Daniher under the father-son rule.

 

[Lord_Flashheart]

This still looks speculative...Where's the quote from the club?

 

[TheSunGod]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suns-could-put-heat-on-dees-for-viney-20120912-25ste.html

Suns could put heat on Dees for Viney

Date September 13, 2012​

​

Emma Quayle​

JACK Viney could yet cost Melbourne the No. 3 choice in this year's draft as a father-son selection, with Gold Coast considering forcing the Demons' hand.
While Greater Western Sydney is expected to pick Lachie Whitfield with the No. 1 pick - and not risk losing the standout 18-year-old by making a father-son bid - the Suns have done considerable research on Viney and are believed to be keen to draft an inside midfielder.
In the unlikely event that the Demons failed to match a Gold Coast bid, the Suns would be left with an instant replacement for the departing Josh Caddy and a young midfield crew that consists of Viney, David Swallow, Harley Bennell, Jaeger O'Meara, Dion Prestia and others.
The Suns are not planning to push for a pick in this year's 17-year-old mini-draft - they gave their No. 4 pick to the Giants to secure O'Meara last year - which means committing to Viney at the start of the trade period would not necessarily hamper their trade plans.
But if they do decide to make a play for West Australian onballer Jack Martin, the leading candidate for this year's mini-draft, they would have to reconsider risking the No. 2 pick on Viney, which means the Demons remain optimistic he could make it to their second-round pick.
Viney, 18, the son of Melbourne recruiting chief Todd Viney, is widely considered the standout inside midfielder in this year's draft pool.
His childhood friend, Echuca onballer Ollie Wines, is another well-regarded inside midfielder in contention for an early pick.
The Demons will snare Viney with their second-round choice - in the 20s - should both the Giants and Suns fail to bid for him. They are also in the mix for a mini-draft pick, with West Australian tall Jesse Hogan believed to be in their sights.
The Western Bulldogs, with two top-10 picks, are well placed to land Martin with the other mini-draft pick, though they will not concede to the Giants' initial demand for both those picks.

Interesting. Coming from Emma too which makes it reliable. Seems we've gone cool on Jack Martin?

 

[kreglze]

I'm happy not investing in anymore 17 year olds. I would rather use my pick in the 'super draft' as opposed to taking a punt on a 17 year old.

 

[supernova_]

I'm happy not investing in anymore 17 year olds. I would rather use my pick in the 'super draft' as opposed to taking a punt on a 17 year old.

I kinda agree with this also, I dont mind going for the compenstation picks. I think we already have 1 or 2 still in the drawer to be used over the next 2 years.

Need to offload Caddy + Toy + Jolly + a few picks....

If we can keep #2 and upgrade to another top 10 pick up Viney and Wines that would be super dooper

Then trade for Tippett, I'll be a happy chappy.

 

[Sunny_]

The general consuses from most draft experts is that this draft isn't as 'super' as predicted.

It's good to see that the club has at least recognised that we need more inside mids. Perhaps I should go get a job at Suns recruiting? They just read our posts anyway.

I would love love love Viney at the Suns. He's pretty much the direct Caddy replacement. Though we would have the same issues with him as we did with Cads. Surely he would want to head back down to Melbourne at the first available opportunity?

 

[supernova_]

The general consuses from most draft experts is that this draft isn't as 'super' as predicted.

It's good to see that the club has at least recognised that we need more inside mids. Perhaps I should go get a job at Suns recruiting? They just read our posts anyway.

I would love love love Viney at the Suns. He's pretty much the direct Caddy replacement. Though we would have the same issues with him as we did with Cads. Surely he would want to head back down to Melbourne at the first available opportunity?

Very true, particularly with the father/son Melbourne hertige etc...

I hope Gaz has a son and nominates Gold Coast

 

[Herbs]

Oh wait, I can hear the screams of outrage from Dees fans.

 

[Sunny_]

There are some Melbourne fans on BigFooty that genuinely think that they would not go after Viney if we bid on him, as if we would be bluffing.

For us, Viney would be one of the best results of the draft. If the MFC did not pull the trigger and get him with pick #3, surely the AFL media would go into melt down!

 

[Slattery_20]

Thats my understanding of it all. The formula for the compensation of a club for the player that is poached is unknown and basically at the AFL's descretion.

But, what the AFL have released so far, is there will be no '2 picks' - ie if GAJ walked out on you/Scully walked out on GWS, you/GWS would only get 1 pick maximum (not 1 x pick-after-your-first-pick + 1 x middle-of-first-round pick)
And the FA compo picks have to be used in that year's draft - ie no stock-piling, or waiting until you fall down the ladder.

So the compensation, for a similar scenario, is a lot weaker.

 

[Slattery_20]

There are some Melbourne fans on BigFooty that genuinely think that they would not go after Viney if we bid on him, as if we would be bluffing.

For us, Viney would be one of the best results of the draft. If the MFC did not pull the trigger and get him with pick #3, surely the AFL media would go into melt down!

Opinion seems divided whether he's top 2, top 3, or top 5 talent.

To me it's all a bit moot - similar with Joe, whichever club gets him, with whatever pick, will be getting a very very good kid.
Hair-splitting is alive & well.

 

[supernova_]

But, what the AFL have released so far, is there will be no '2 picks' - ie if GAJ walked out on you/Scully walked out on GWS, you/GWS would only get 1 pick maximum (not 1 x pick-after-your-first-pick + 1 x middle-of-first-round pick)
And the FA compo picks have to be used in that year's draft - ie no stock-piling, or waiting until you fall down the ladder.

So the compensation, for a similar scenario, is a lot weaker.

Do you have a link on this?

Are you saying for example Goddard goes via FA, St Kilda need to use that pick this year? Or in 2013?

 

[Slattery_20]

Do you have a link on this?

Are you saying for example Goddard goes via FA, St Kilda need to use that pick this year? Or in 2013?

Yes, that is correct - one pick, in the 2012 draft.

His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period,

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...e-in-free-agency/story-e6frepf6-1226435528431
http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/free-agency-banking-ban-hits-top-clubs-20120822-24mtt.html

Of course, it all rests on the AFL's "pre-determined*" (unless clubs have an issue with it in which case we'll change it after the fact like last time) formula

 

[Sunny_]

Opinion seems divided whether he's top 2, top 3, or top 5 talent.

To me it's all a bit moot - similar with Joe, whichever club gets him, with whatever pick, will be getting a very very good kid.
Hair-splitting is alive & well.

I guess it's all subjective. But for me, Whitfield is the clear best. Then you could throw a blanket over the others like Toumpas, Grundy, Viney etc. and pick them based off of your needs.

For us, the most demanding need would be Viney. If he's unavailable, there's little doubt in my mind that we'll pick up Toumpas. Has an inside game that isn't as strong as Viney, but can definitely help out there as well as giving us options in other parts of the ground. He's like Jimmy Bartel mk. II!

 

[SandyToes]

Viney to me would be an even greater risk of walking like Caddy
He's Melbourne through and through
All we'd be doing is putting games into him for 2 years at the expense of someone who wants to be a Sun

 

[Sunny_]

Viney to me would be an even greater risk of walking like Caddy
He's Melbourne through and through
All we'd be doing is putting games into him for 2 years at the expense of someone who wants to be a Sun

Pretty much. It's interesting how different players have different attitudes.

Brandon Matera for instance ideally doesn't want to play in WA so he can escape the Matera shadow. He's said as much before, preferring to create his own identity at the Coast.

Viney on the other hand seems to be the complete opposite. Wants to play at the club he was brought up with and has ties with.

Not that there's a problem with either one, just interesting to note.

 

[Slattery_20]

Pretty much. It's interesting how different players have different attitudes.

Brandon Matera for instance ideally doesn't want to play in WA so he can escape the Matera shadow. He's said as much before, preferring to create his own identity at the Coast.

Viney on the other hand seems to be the complete opposite. Wants to play at the club he was brought up with and has ties with.

Not that there's a problem with either one, just interesting to note.

Playing for Melbourne was no sure thing, until Melbourne brought Tod back into the fold (he was working for Adelaide at the time).
Pretty sure GWS was interested in him as an under-17 pick.

 

[whatlez]

Hmm Caddy is an overated hack and good he leaving. I also do not rate Toy.

On the ruck Delimna I would think Grundy would be handy, but we want to trade our 2nd pick to GWS for the mini pick 1 right?

We are missing a key ruckman. We could try and get like a Warnock, but is that even possible? How do you guys rate Josh Hall and Tom Nicholls?

 

[exile]

Re: viney, I think we're just making sure we'll get our hands on the best mini-draft pick by making sure the Dees use their pick 3 on him. Increases our chances of getting Martin I suppose, which from a list management point of view is how I see it panning out.

 

[supernova_]

Hmm Caddy is an overated hack and good he leaving. I also do not rate Toy.

On the ruck Delimna I would think Grundy would be handy, but we want to trade our 2nd pick to GWS for the mini pick 1 right?

We are missing a key ruckman. We could try and get like a Warnock, but is that even possible? How do you guys rate Josh Hall and Tom Nicholls?

Sorry, but you have to be one of the most dellusional posters around.

We have a lot of ruckmen? Caddy is not a hack, Toy is highly rated skillwise, but cant put it together for fitness or whatever reasons. Josh Hall should be delisted, Nicholls should be traded.

 

[Sunny_]

Josh Hall is a rookie, so we won't delist him. Showed potential in that Tigers game. Without him we would have lost.

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

Personally loved Hall's attack on the ball on his debut, needs a lot more time to develop though.

In regards to Viney, I thought they interviewed these kids about their feelings towards moving first?

 

[supernova_]

Personally loved Hall's attack on the ball on his debut, needs a lot more time to develop though.

In regards to Viney, I thought they interviewed these kids about their feelings towards moving first?

They do. Its argueably more important the mental aspect of the kids these days than their physical attributes. Leadership, selflessness, courage, ambition, drive etc...etc...

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

Yeah totally agree. Would rather a kid not as good but 100% dedicated to the club.

Who knows though, Viney may not be bothered. I wouldn't like working at the same place as my old man