News 2012 Video Game Awards

[GrandBlue]

Could you expand on that? I don't really know what you mean by "relies on".

I'm interested because it was easily my game of 2012, but apparently it should not even come close.

The best games excel in more than just a few areas. Journey excels in it's visuals, sound and world design (if spacious open worlds are your thing), compared to say- Mass Effect 3, which offers great visuals, plot (bar the ending), gameplay, sound and longevity.

Do you enjoy any video games Grand blue?
All I see you post about is how shit they are.

Absolute garbage. Just because I rag on the games you like, doesn't mean I hate all games. Typical fanboy you are.

Overrated is a ridiculous term for Journey.

Stopped reading there.

As if the idiots on the Soccer Board weren't the only ones couldn't figure out the definition of overrated...

 

[Face_Plain]

It seems that you are misunderstanding my point re psn/disc, I'll try one more time to clarify. We'll stick to just playstation. You're fixating on the delivery method of the content which isn't the point.

Category A
On one hand you have games designed primarily for blu ray disc release, and possibly psn as well. They have larger budgets, resources....these games generally have far more content, features, scale, tech wizardry, polish etc Uncharted, Killzone, God Of War, GTA, etc

Category B
On the other hand there are games created specifically for release on the psn store. These games have much lower budgets, smaller teams etc. Due to this they are much smaller in scale, far more basic in design, shorter etc. They are priced far cheaper. Journey, Dead Nation, The Unfinished Swan etc.

Now there are some titles that blur the lines a little, but on the whole.. they are two pretty different categories of game. You really don't see a difference between a game like God Of War and Dead Nation? They are in the same ballpark?

When I say downloadable/psn games, I am referring to cat B games exclusively and don't include cat A games (Uncharted etc) even if they are available digitally. That's just how my mates and I have always said it, never been misunderstood until now.

As someone who has always bought disc the class difference between a big budget $80 blu ray title and a $15 PSN title has always been apparent.

If you understand now, then I can explain why I believe the class difference of the two categories makes it extremely unlikely for a title like Journey/Dead Nation/The Unfinished Swan to win GOTY. If you still care, which I doubt anybody does.

Also I'm not saying you can not have Journey as your own GOTY. I'm not telling you what to think. I just find certain sites giving it GOTY to be eyebrow raising, and some of the hyperbole about it to almost remind me of the emperor's new clothes. I had to post after reading that Jeff thing. That is insane to me. I actually enjoyed Journey.

 

[He_Beast]

I know what you mean, I'm trying to tell you that it's arbitrary, especially with regards to a game's quality.

The difference between your two made up categories appears to be budget/resources. There's a bigger gulf in between Grand Theft Auto 4's budget and Uncharted 3's budget, than there is between U3's and Journey's. Why not a third category? And where is the line between your two categories? How much money? Whether or not a game gets a disc release comes down to whether the publisher thinks that it will be worth the investment. What does that have to do with how good a game is? Playstation is just one type of computer, also. How would you get anything like this category divide anywhere near windows or mac or iOS or android games?

So far I've talked about why I think the two categories are arbitrary, but tbh the idea that your separating games qualitatively based on how much money is being spent on them is disgusting.

Also it's not really relevant to the discussion, but you have something completely backwards, developers pitch ideas to publishers and are given budgets, or they source their own funding - then they decide how they're going to release it. There's no such thing as a game created specifically for release on the psn store. You create games to be games. Imagine if someone went to record an album specifically for it to be released on CD.


I'll answer your question as well "You really don't see a difference between a game like God Of War and Dead Nation? They are in the same ballpark?"

Well there's lots of differences. They're completely different genres for one. What kind of question is this? I haven't actually played Dead Nation either, so I can't tell you which one is better.

 

[Face_Plain]

I know what you mean, I'm trying to tell you that it's arbitrary, especially with regards to a game's quality.

The difference between your two made up categories appears to be budget/resources. There's a bigger gulf in between Grand Theft Auto 4's budget and Uncharted 3's budget, than there is between U3's and Journey's. Why not a third category? And where is the line between your two categories? How much money? Whether or not a game gets a disc release comes down to whether the publisher thinks that it will be worth the investment. What does that have to do with how good a game is? Playstation is just one type of computer, also. How would you get anything like this category divide anywhere near windows or mac or iOS or android games?

I draw the line at physical media. Getting a disc release generally signifies a higher budget, more resources, cost etc because there is more risk attached. There are some exceptions of course. I don't play android games etc so don't care TBH. They'd be below psn titles if I did care.

I know what you mean, I'm trying to tell you that it's arbitrary, especially with regards to a game's quality.
So far I've talked about why I think the two categories are arbitrary, but tbh the idea that your separating games qualitatively based on how much money is being spent on them is disgusting.

Continue to be disgusting by such trivial things. I'm saying smaller psn titles do not have the budget, resources etc to compete with top tier big budget retail discs in terms of polish, content, scale, tech etc so you cannot compare them. PSN games have far more limitations placed upon them by their lesser resources, I've already explained how traversal animation had to be redesigned because of manpower, there would be countless other things. This is why they should not be held to the same standard or expectation.

Money isn't everything, there are plenty of garbage games with high budgets and endless resources (RE6.. mother of god). A good dev is a good dev... but a good dev with a truckload of money is going to outshine a good dev with a fraction of their resources. This is why they get their own category at award wank shows. Yet to play a psn game that comes anywhere near Dark Souls or even my top 10 games of this gen, and I doubt they will due to the listed reasons.

Also it's not really relevant to the discussion, but you have something completely backwards, developers pitch ideas to publishers and are given budgets, or they source their own funding - then they decide how they're going to release it. There's no such thing as a game created specifically for release on the psn store. You create games to be games. Imagine if someone went to record an album specifically for it to be released on CD.

Are you telling me they wouldn't know where the project would be released when it was greenlit? Or have some idea of whether they were shooting for digital or disc when they pitched it? Really? I know occasionally things changed (Twisted Metal went from psn to full disc in dev) but that stuff should be locked in usually. Pretty sure thatgamecompany signed a three psn game deal with Sony.

I'll answer your question as well "You really don't see a difference between a game like God Of War and Dead Nation? They are in the same ballpark?"

Well there's lots of differences. They're completely different genres for one. What kind of question is this? I haven't actually played Dead Nation either, so I can't tell you which one is better.

Oh look, you not understanding (or pretending to not understand) my point again...

Think I'm done here. If you wish to reply I'll give you the respect of reading your response but probably won't reply. Nobody else wants to read our shit, I'm not going to change your mind and you think I'm Stalin for not holding small psn titles and big budget retail releases to the same standard. Better go comb my moustache.

 

[He_Beast]

Why don't you answer the questions?


I mean it's alright either way, but your view is that a game can't be the best game of the year if it isn't released on a disc. A game is the best game of the year if it's the best game of the year. You can't tell people what it should and shouldn't be.

 

[Face_Plain]

If this is a troll to elicit another reply from me, well done you succeeded. My moustache tingles. If you are genuinely asking, then I don't know which questions you are referring to. Repost them if you wish.

I mean it's alright either way, but your view is that a game can't be the best game of the year if it isn't released on a disc. A game is the best game of the year if it's the best game of the year. You can't tell people what it should and shouldn't be.

No, my view is that due to a variety of reasons I've already outlined.. it is extremely hard for a psn title to be GOTY. It would take an extraordinary title to win it and overcome all the advantages higher budget disc releases have over them. I've said a few times it would have to be magnificent to win it and I am yet to see anything close to that. Journey is not that game IMO.

This is my view, as already stated I'm not telling other people what to think. Your own opinion is the most important. As stated.. I do believe the hyperbole over Journey has been a bit much though.

 

[He_Beast]

Well I think I might have misunderstood something you said.

Downloadable titles generally get their own category for recognition (see OP). Unless the gulf in quality between titles is so vast that there is simply no choice, it shouldn't be GOTY. I don't think it is head and shoulders above everything else.

So this is what I picture.

Person thinks Journey is the best game of the year, but it only slightly edges out Far Cry 3, therefore Far Cry 3 is the better game.

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Face_Plain]

I probably went too far there, vast gulf etc. If someone genuinely thought Journey was the best game, then yes it should be Journey not Far Cry 3. Personally I'd need something truly amazing from a psn title, simply because currently they haven't come close to GOTY for me so that may explain some of the exaggeration in that quoted part.

 

[He_Beast]

well that was a lot of faffing about

could have played through journey again

 

[HBK619]

Honestly Face_Plain I think you're looking at this in a very archaic manner.

It's all purely qualitative at the end of the day. Scale, limitations, these things are superfluous in the grand scheme of things, especially if that game is still fantastic.

Every game has limitations placed on it, whether that be resources, budget, time constraints, whatever. Look at Bioshock Infinite. 4 years of development, plenty of cash but they had to cut multiplayer due to time and resources.

The feet thing for Journey just doesn't have anywhere near enough of an impact on the overall game to really be a sticking point of low resources. And if anything, it actually wored in the games favour because it helps to instantly tell you that this isn't a 'human'. It may have been a limitation that got them to that point, but it worked out for the better to the characters look, feel and place in the gaming world that it was created in. It didn't hinder the game from playing well at all.

If limitations are legitimately curtailing a game to the point where it's obvious this isn't what the developer ever intended, then that's where you bring limitations into the equation. But I really doubt that there'd be much difference to story, style or much of what the overall game was had this been a full fledged retail release. It's also arguably the sole reason it was able to tell the story it did.

I think you need to get with the times a bit more with these titles. They're no longer a niche, no longer a one time forgettable thing, they're of a quality that can compete with anything else out there.

Journey may not have been a perfect game, but how many games were this year? You've even stated yourself that Dragon's Dogma was incredibly flawed, yet still game it your favourite game. That's why Journey, and downloadable games can and are competing with others.

Using The Walking Dead as an example again. This is a game without the attempt at huge scale, being epic or having a huge focus on gameplay (about 20% of the game is 'gameplay') and yet it's still taking GOTY's left, right and centre (by people on here and in many publications). Yes it's now retail to get it out to more people, but there's no way ot would've been a game had it not being for the downloadable format being available.

On the Jeff Gerstmann thing. Yeah it's kinda dumb and stupid for not going back to the game, although he is very headstrong and when he gets an idea into his head it stays that way (should hear what he says about Mass Effect 3). But I think it still shows how much of an emotional impact a game like Journey can have that is absolutely unmatched in gaming. There's a lot of things out there in gaming that can make someone put it down and not want to go back. But losing someone that you're playing along with, a random at that, is what has such am emotional point that you can't pick it up? That's big...and different.

And at the end of the day too, I think it's something the developer intended. What you end up getting out of it is a story that doesn't conclude the way the developer may have truly intended, sure. But the emotional impact is still much the same. What happens is that in this story, this particular character just waited and waited and waited and.ended up dying from waiting. It's kind of like that Futurama episode where Fry's dog waits for him outside the pizza shop until he dies. It's a tragic ending and it didn't really need to be that way, but that's the way it panned out because of the connection he felt towards that other person, to the poimt that he felt he just couldn't go on. I really think it just perfectly exemplifies why it's such a good game at doing what it set out to do. In creating a meaningful impact with someone else from the most basic of personal interactions. It also completely chamged gamer mentality with regards to online, but that's for another conversation.

 

[HBK619]

Also, I forgot to mention GiantBomb put up their top 10 games of the year yesterday with their day 5 awards.

It is as follows:
Source: http://www.giantbomb.com/news/giant-bombs-2012-game-of-the-year-awards-day-five/4476/

GOTY - XCOM: Enemy Unknown
2. The Walking Dead
3. Far Cry 3
4. Fez
5. Journey
6. Mark of the Ninja
7. Syndicate
8. Mass Effect 3
9. ZombiU
10. Sleeping Dogs

And again, this is why they had that whole downloadable GOTY that makes them want to get rid of downloadable GOTY categories. As 4 of their top 6 were download only games.

 

[Face_Plain]

Thought I was done with this thread but you took the time to write this post so the least I can do is reply.

Every game has limitations placed on it, whether that be resources, budget, time constraints, whatever. Look at Bioshock Infinite. 4 years of development, plenty of cash but they had to cut multiplayer due to time and resources.

Correct all games have limitations, which is why I specified that psn games have far more limitations than usual due to far less resources, budget. Just as an aside, someone tell Team Ico this. How many years and NOTHING.

The feet thing for Journey just doesn't have anywhere near enough of an impact on the overall game to really be a sticking point of low resources. And if anything, it actually wored in the games favour because it helps to instantly tell you that this isn't a 'human'. It may have been a limitation that got them to that point, but it worked out for the better to the characters look, feel and place in the gaming world that it was created in. It didn't hinder the game from playing well at all.

The point was that if something as seemingly basic as feet couldn't be done due to manpower, where else did they compromise? Same interview said something about how they only had the resources to focus on a few key things.

If limitations are legitimately curtailing a game to the point where it's obvious this isn't what the developer ever intended, then that's where you bring limitations into the equation. But I really doubt that there'd be much difference to story, style or much of what the overall game was had this been a full fledged retail release. It's also arguably the sole reason it was able to tell the story it did.

The more limitations the more likely to compromise in terms of vision, design choices etc. A compromise here and there.. they add up and can make the difference between a good game and a great game. You generally won't know about this stuff unless devs are loud and vocal, which doesn't happen often as it looks bad. You won't see Insomniac come out and say EA plowed Fuse in the arse. This is just in general, in relation to Journey.. they embraced the limitations placed upon them by being a psn title and played to their strengths. They nailed a few key things but were definitely lacking in other areas. On the whole I think they did accomplish what they set out to though. I don't know what they would have done with more resources, but most likely more nailing and less lacking.

I think you need to get with the times a bit more with these titles. They're no longer a niche, no longer a one time forgettable thing, they're of a quality that can compete with anything else out there.

I don't think they are niche, but I also don't think they can compete with top tier games (Dark Souls, Uncharted, RDR,) because I am yet to play one that comes close. Granted, I am not an avid psn title downloader, more an occasional dabbler.

Journey may not have been a perfect game, but how many games were this year? You've even stated yourself that Dragon's Dogma was incredibly flawed, yet still game it your favourite game. That's why Journey, and downloadable games can and are competing with others.

This was an extremely weak year, hence DD winning my GOTY. DD still has Journey covered comfortably though. This won't even be a discussion point next year because Sony is loading both barrels and RockStar is coming to the party.

Using The Walking Dead as an example again. This is a game without the attempt at huge scale, being epic or having a huge focus on gameplay (about 20% of the game is 'gameplay') and yet it's still taking GOTY's left, right and centre (by people on here and in many publications). Yes it's now retail to get it out to more people, but there's no way ot would've been a game had it not being for the downloadable format being available.

I have not played TWD so I cannot comment on it.

On the Jeff Gerstmann thing. Yeah it's kinda dumb and stupid for not going back to the game, although he is very headstrong and when he gets an idea into his head it stays that way (should hear what he says about Mass Effect 3). But I think it still shows how much of an emotional impact a game like Journey can have that is absolutely unmatched in gaming. There's a lot of things out there in gaming that can make someone put it down and not want to go back. But losing someone that you're playing along with, a random at that, is what has such am emotional point that you can't pick it up? That's big...and different.

And at the end of the day too, I think it's something the developer intended. What you end up getting out of it is a story that doesn't conclude the way the developer may have truly intended, sure. But the emotional impact is still much the same. What happens is that in this story, this particular character just waited and waited and waited and.ended up dying from waiting. It's kind of like that Futurama episode where Fry's dog waits for him outside the pizza shop until he dies. It's a tragic ending and it didn't really need to be that way, but that's the way it panned out because of the connection he felt towards that other person, to the poimt that he felt he just couldn't go on. I really think it just perfectly exemplifies why it's such a good game at doing what it set out to do. In creating a meaningful impact with someone else from the most basic of personal interactions. It also completely chamged gamer mentality with regards to online, but that's for another conversation.

See, I disagree there. I don't think Jeff's experience is evidence of Journey's emotional impact.. I think it is better evidence that Jeff needs a cup of cement. Similar thing happened to me. Went through level with a guy, at the end he sat his arse down and didn't move. I chirped a bit to let him know we out this bitch, but he didn't move. I thought maybe he wanted the meditate trophy so did it with him. Still nothing so after a minute or so I kept on rolling. To chirp for 10 minutes then close the game and never touch again? That is INSANE. I am not disputing that Journey does have emotional impact, there is definitely an unspoken bond between the two of you, and playing with the same person all the way to the end for the first time and dat ending together would have packed a punch.

I do dispute that it is unmatched though. Other games have emotional impact, shit.. I was more saddened by the Sif stuff in Dark Souls DLC than dat ending of Journey. But then again I have a soft spot for dogs and... how dare you mention Seymour.

 

[Cory]

tl;dr

 

[Bobby P]

Is there a thread for Spec Ops - The Line?

I can't find it with my shyt searching tools!!

 

[HBK619]

Is there a thread for Spec Ops - The Line?

I can't find it with my shyt searching tools!!

I don't think there was. The only thread with relevance was this from sacka:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/discussion-recommendation-of-games.961125

 

[Bobby P]

Thanks HBK. Interesting game I thought there would be a bit more discussion. Cheers.

 

[He_Beast]

It was my second best of the year.

 

[HBK619]

Thanks HBK. Interesting game I thought there would be a bit more discussion. Cheers.

I think it just ended up being something that people didn't get because it didn't really look all that good from the outside. I know that after the demo, I wasn't really impressed or wanting to buy it.

I've been listening to things about the game (avoiding spoilers as much as possible) and it's definitely on my 'to buy' list at some stage just to see how the story ends up playing out.

 

[sacka]

I think it just ended up being something that people didn't get because it didn't really look all that good from the outside. I know that after the demo, I wasn't really impressed or wanting to buy it.

I've been listening to things about the game (avoiding spoilers as much as possible) and it's definitely on my 'to buy' list at some stage just to see how the story ends up playing out.

The demo nearly stopped me from getting it, but i guess i was lucky there wasn't a lot out at the time, and i needed a new game fix(+ I'm a sucker for 3rd person shooters)

 

[underthestars]

Dark Souls. For the first two days I wanted to throw it in anger...but it kept me persevering. Then it started to consume me.

 

[JTLethal]

As much as I don't like Halo. Halo 4 is my choice. Game looks really good. I haven't played it but seen mates play it.