List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[timtamWB]

I think people get discouraged when it comes to Scharenberg as he seems like a player who will only be able to play half back. We are lacking polish and run through the midfield and I think that is why everyone is jumping on Aish and off Scharenberg as it means we are letting a gun midfielder slip through - even though Scharenberg may be better overall.

Can Scharenberg be that BIG bodied midfielder as well?

People are jumping on Aish now because before we though he was 0% chance to slip to our pick. Not because of Scharenberg being unable to play midfield.

I don't think Berg will ever be a full time midfielder, or if he is, not til a fair way into his career, say 26. He will definitely pinch hit though.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Twomey doing a live chat in 10 minutes if anybody wants to pick his brain.

 

[footyfan000001]

Twomey doing a live chat in 10 minutes if anybody wants to pick his brain.

Where?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Where?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-01/live-chat-draft-tips

 

[Chris Grant]

If we do pass on Aish it will be because we have concerns over his size, inside game and athletically he's not brilliant in anything. I mean he's decent athletically, but he doesn't really stand out in anything for an outside player which may concern us. I don't buy into the go home factor at all.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Is the reason James Aish is slipping cause his endurance is Higgins-level horrific?

 

[Chris Grant]

Is the reason James Aish is slipping cause his endurance is Higgins-level horrific?

Horrific is a strong word. I've read/heard experts like Shifter say Aish's endurance is reasonable but certainly not to the level of Whitfield or Kelly. The reason why he would slip is a combination of factors IMO. Size, inside game, doesn't run as hard both ways are the main concerns though they are not big concerns. Then only decent athleticism to go with it for an outside player is not ideal also. Whilst not a concern recruiters would also look at his kicking. Whilst very good it lacks penetration over long distances. So for an outside player he doesn't break the lines and he can't kick over zones.

But that's looking totally at the negative aspects. I'd still take him at the dogs, but I can see why he could be overlooked.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

Horrific is a strong word. I've read/heard experts like Shifter say Aish's endurance is reasonable but certainly not to the level of Whitfield or Kelly. The reason why he would slip is a combination of factors IMO. Size, inside game, doesn't run as hard both ways are the main concerns though they are not big concerns. Then only decent athleticism to go with it for an outside player is not ideal also. Whilst not a concern recruiters would also look at his kicking. Whilst very good it lacks penetration over long distances. So for an outside player he doesn't break the lines and he can't kick over zones.

But that's looking totally at the negative aspects. I'd still take him at the dogs, but I can see why he could be overlooked.

Some posters have compared Billings to Higgins. But all the weaknesses you've described in Aish are also weaknesses attributed to Higgins.

 

[paul scholes]

The clubs on record as saying we're playing the long game, so I fail to see why Aish has to be a star straight away.
The question is who is the better player in 3 to 4 years time ?

 

[paul scholes]

If we do pass on Aish it will be because we have concerns over his size, inside game and athletically he's not brilliant in anything. I mean he's decent athletically, but he doesn't really stand out in anything for an outside player which may concern us. I don't buy into the go home factor at all.

Pick the best player , bring him into the program and teach ! He'll get bigger as he gets older.
Macrae was an outside type when drafted

 

[Zgope1]

I think Aish has very underrated speed and his endurance has been caused by his lack of pre seasons. Also reckon his kick is quite penetrating. Higgins is a really good comparison though imo. I've seen him be a bit more ferocious at it than Missy though

 

[Chris Grant]

To clarify a bit more I think he has a very nice burst of speed, his speed over a distance is only average. I if you look through the champs guys like Hartung and Salem caught up to him pretty quickly. Won't break any lines with it. In regards to his kicking, it is penetrating over a 40m distance. Once over a longer 50m distance his kicks can get a bit loopy after closer analysis.

Not sure I see the Higgins comparison, but he certainly has some similar weaknesses.

 

[Zgope1]

To clarify a bit more I think he has a very nice burst of speed, his speed over a distance is only average. I if you look through the champs guys like Hartung and Salem caught up to him pretty quickly. Won't break any lines with it. In regards to his kicking, it is penetrating over a 40m distance. Once over a longer 50m distance his kicks can get a bit loopy after closer analysis.

Not sure I see the Higgins comparison, but he certainly has some similar weaknesses.

I disagree. I mean line breaking is as much about agility and having good disposal so people buy your candy and Aish has that in spades. Even Hrovat can break a line here and there and it's because his good disposal buys him time

 

[Dale4captain]

I know this will likely be an unpopular opinion, but I wont mind if we pick Bontempelli with our first pick. Watching the highlights and interviews on AFL.com, I see what people mean about Billings and looks like he's a few legs short of a chair (not very bright). Wouldn't interview fantastically. Bontempelli looked confident and spoke with purpose. I liked it. The club is brave, they'll choose the player that will be the best in 5 years time. That'll likely be Bontempelli. We saw it with Stringer and Macrae last year, we'll likely see it again this year. Who passes on a 193cm ruck rover with excellent skills, great endurance, fantastic 1v1 marking ability and pace to match?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Aish, just saying i would have no problem with us picking Bontempelli.

 

[timtamWB]

I know this will likely be an unpopular opinion, but I wont mind if we pick Bontempelli with our first pick. Watching the highlights and interviews on AFL.com, I see what people mean about Billings and looks like he's a few legs short of a chair (not very bright). Wouldn't interview fantastically. Bontempelli looked confident and spoke with purpose. I liked it. The club is brave, they'll choose the player that will be the best in 5 years time. That'll likely be Bontempelli. We saw it with Stringer and Macrae last year, we'll likely see it again this year. Who passes on a 193cm ruck rover with excellent skills, great endurance, fantastic 1v1 marking ability and pace to match?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Aish, just saying i would have no problem with us picking Bontempelli.

Why would we pass on an incredibly smart player with great kicking efficiency, great footy smarts and instincts, has won games off of his own boot before, as an underage player no less, and looks like he has a lot of time with the ball?

I just described Billings.

You're ignoring Bontempelli's flaws, such as inconsistency and the fact he's gone missing big time during a lot of big games. I'm not convinced he'll be able to handle the step up to AFL level, and that is my major gripe with him. He's been a riser but he's gone missing in a lot of games, whereas another riser KK has proven himself in big games.

 

[Dale4captain]

Why would we pass on an incredibly smart player with great kicking efficiency, great footy smarts and instincts, has won games off of his own boot before, as an underage player no less, and looks like he has a lot of time with the ball?

I just described Billings.

You're ignoring Bontempelli's flaws, such as inconsistency and the fact he's gone missing big time during a lot of big games. I'm not convinced he'll be able to handle the step up to AFL level, and that is my major gripe with him. He's been a riser but he's gone missing in a lot of games, whereas another riser KK has proven himself in big games.

Yep, a smart player with great kicking efficiency, great footy smarts and instincts, has planty of time with the ball etc etc. I just described Bontempelli. See what I did there?

You're ignoring Billings flaws. Endurance nowhere near the required level, poor performances all of this year, doesn't have any proven midfield time, seem's like he's not quite there with interviews etc..

What I'm saying is that every single prospect in this draft has question marks on their heads, same as most drafts.

All I'm trying to illistrate is that I'd be happy with pretty much any of the top 5, including Bontempelli. In the end, it comes down to the clubs decision and who they believe will transition into senior football and perform. I'd back them in whoever they choose. Be that Billings, Aish, Bontempelli, Kelly, Scharenburg etc.

Point was simply that Bontempelli would definately be in the frame at our selection. We've been said to be interested in Billings, Aish and Bontempelli so I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

seem's like he's not quite there with interviews etc..

WHATTTTT?

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Dale4captain I've zero idea what you're on about with regards to Jack Billings' intelligence level, I'd love to see you explain Bursitis with the camera on you at 17 years of age.

 

[Dale4captain]

Dale4captain I've zero idea what you're on about with regards to Jack Billings' intelligence level, I'd love to see you explain Bursitis with the camera on you at 17 years of age.

Wasn't what i was referring to, mate. I'm not questioning his intelligence, just his media prowess and communication skills. Both pretty vital as a professional sportsperson in this day and age. Was simply making the comparison between how interviews with him are not at the level of other top prospects.

 

[Aldo]

I actually agree with Dale4captain on the Billings intelligence observation. From the interviews I've seen him in, I always laugh because he just sounds really dumb. I'm sure he's actually a smart kid, he just doesn't look or sound it based purely on appearances.

He's still my favourite for pick 4 along with Aish and Kolodjashnij. If anything, for some reason, it makes me like him more.

 

[Chris Grant]

The one time when Bontempelli performed very well against quality opposition (last game of the champs), the fizz went right out of the game. Tends to fumble a bit and can struggle with the pace of the game in the big games. That's after watching 3 games of him at the champs and the two TAC finals. But performances against high quality opposition doesn't seem to worry Dalrymple, see Howard.​

​

Personally think it's too risky, but I think we might rate him over an Aish.​

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Wasn't what i was referring to, mate. I'm not questioning his intelligence, just his media prowess and communication skills. Both pretty vital as a professional sportsperson in this day and age. Was simply making the comparison between how interviews with him are not at the level of other top prospects.

You're right. The fact that neither Ryan Griffen or Tom Liberatore are engaging media performers make them two of our least valuable players.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

Personally think it's too risky, but I think we might rate him over an Aish.

Thats interesting, Sammy Landsberger has us really liking Aish.

 

[Guido]

Both pretty vital as a professional sportsperson in this day and age. Was simply making the comparison between how interviews with him are not at the level of other top prospects.

Neither were Cyril Rioli's.

How vital/relevant were his poor interviews as a 17/18 year old in 2007 to his performances in multiple finals across the last few years?

 

[Dale4captain]

I think you guys are grabbing something said a one of his slight weaknesses and running with it like I punched your nan in the nose. All I'm saying is that Bontempelli is clearly a stronger speaker than Billings. Cool your jets with the 6000 examples of players who dont like media.

As a side note, Griff loves the camera. He certainly doesn't shy away from having a bit of fun with it. Just because he doesn't do a press conference once a week doesn't make him poor at engaging g with media when they ask. He speaks very well to the public.