List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[TBOW]

If we are actually targeting Sam Reid, then we MUST get Sydney's first rounder, and possibly even more.

I've seen this suggested a few times, but Sydney will almost certainly have committed their 1st pick to nsw academy kid Isaac Heeney before the trade period even kicks off.
It is a similar situation to the father
son bidding.

 

[Doggies_13]

Tom Lamb for me, as GB said he's ceiling is higher and we can always work on his kicking.
Him and Stringer would be a deadly combo.

And Bonts would be a pretty good trio

 

[GrandBlue]

We'd had 13 scoring shots at half time. Gold Coast had 9 shots.

Despite this fatal lack of pace we pretty much had Gold Coast's measure, save for some poor accuracy in front of goal, and their unseasonably high accuracy for goal.

So? Who cares about scoring shots as a stat. The only scoring shots that are relevant are clear cut goal chances, and Gold Coast look like a far more dangerous side with the ball in hand, one of the reasons being that they have players that can run through space without being caught.

I'm not saying the sole reason we lost is because our players were too slow, I'm saying we're operating at a sizeable disadvantage without it.

Did we compete with them earlier on? Yes.
Did we concede a great deal of goals because of GC's breakaway pace? Yes.
Do we have players capable of scoring goals with breakaway pace? No.

It's a disadvantage, simple as that.

As was evident when we then stopped playing in quarter 3 and gave up 8 goals to 1.

and if we had a linebreaker or two who could break through Gold Coast's pressing, it might've been 6 goals to 3.

I cannot believe some of the discussion on these boards - we've gone from identifying our weaknesses in the 08-10 Prelim failures where we couldn't play the game as tough as Geelong or Hawthorn or St Kilda or Collingwood (despite being more fleet footed and skilled)...

to now whinging that we aren't more fleet footed and skilled.

What a ridiculous post.

Yeah, we probably weren't tough enough to compete with the Grand Finalists of those years, but it doesn't mean we should sacrifice our speed to fix it. Teams like Geelong & Collingwood won their flags because they had a good mix of both.

We've added a lot of grunt to the team, but as a result, we look a lot slower compared to 2008-2010, and because of that, I think we should add more fast players. Seriously, what's the problem?

 

[Dav1d]

No way the afl would give us a compo pick
They will give it to saints.

Why should they? They've had far more recent success then us
Brisbane might be a shot though

Hard running and good skills only get you so far; every Grand Final contender is going to have plenty of it, but we'll be slacking behind for not having players who can run through space at blistering speed at the MCG.

I'm curious, what sort of line breaking players are you suggesting? Lewis Jetta type or Issac Smith? etc

 

[GrandBlue]

I'm curious, what sort of line breaking players are you suggesting? Lewis Jetta type or Issac Smith? etc

Both. They seem pretty similar to me, although I prefer Smith because he's more consistent.

Anyone with blistering pace, enough endurance to run for 4 quarters & a high quality kick would be perfect.

 

[VitalDread]

Both. They seem pretty similar to me, although I prefer Smith because he's more consistent.

Anyone with blistering pace, enough endurance to run for 4 quarters & a high quality kick would be perfect.

Think Smith has a better/longer kick than Jetta.

 

[Dav1d]

Both. They seem pretty similar to me, although I prefer Smith because he's more consistent.

Anyone with blistering pace, enough endurance to run for 4 quarters & a high quality kick would be perfect.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to get at

we don't want a player that only has good speed and stinks at everything else
like best kick in the draft....yeah right, that is dandy; but what other tricks have you got?

I'm not sure about Pickett and his endurance, but know he at least has the other two

we probably need a couple of these types over the next couple of drafts/trade as well

 

[doggies ftw]

I still don't see it as a huge need, yes its a nice bonus to have but its pretty hard to find guys who will fit into our team but are also outside players with blistering pace. Its why we're trying to develop Tutts contested game (and I think he's coming along nicely at the moment) and I also like JJs work up the ground lately, shame he was dropped for disciplinary reasons because he was just starting to find form. Not against taking a guy or 2 with those attributes later in the draft but don't think were absolutely desperate for it.

You can't tell me we looked slow in the first half, when all our players were running hard, linking up with smart handballs and everyone was streaming forward. But in the 3rd when no one wanted to run, no one wanted to present and we couldn't even get our hands on the ball of course we looked slow as ****. When were playing footy the way we want it to be played then pace isn't an issue at all. What is the issue is we can't play that kind of footy for 4 quarters.

 

[maddog37]

Both. They seem pretty similar to me, although I prefer Smith because he's more consistent.

Anyone with blistering pace, enough endurance to run for 4 quarters & a high quality kick would be perfect.

You are describing Tutt.

 

[GrandBlue]

Yeah, that was what I was trying to get at

we don't want a player that only has good speed and stinks at everything else
like best kick in the draft....yeah right, that is dandy; but what other tricks have you got?

I'm not sure about Pickett and his endurance, but know he at least has the other two

we probably need a couple of these types over the next couple of drafts/trade as well

I still have a good feeling about Lamb. His kicking might be weak & he's still a little inconsistent, but he's just so dynamic, and the ability to play up forward is a very nice bonus. He's one of those could-be-anything prospects.

I'm not sure I'd be too surprised if he slipped though, I can see some parallels between him & Jonathan Marsh from last year; both tall, lightning fast players who struggle with their kicking & have consistency problems.

You are describing Tutt.

Tutt does not have high quality footskills. Just because he's capable of some amazing kicks doesn't mean he can do it consistently.

Also, it's a loose description. Of course there are other factors: consistency, ability to find the ball, good handballer etc, but I don't bother with that crap because it's assumed.

 

[Dav1d]

I still have a good feeling about Lamb. His kicking might be weak & he's still a little inconsistent, but he's just so dynamic, and the ability to play up forward is a very nice bonus. He's one of those could-be-anything prospects.

I'm not sure I'd be too surprised if he slipped though, I can see some parallels between him & Jonathan Marsh from last year; both tall, lightning fast players who struggle with their kicking & have consistency problems.

.

http://madmondayshow.com/news-feed/ hope you've seen this site

agree regarding Lamb, but I think Lamb is the far more natural footballer of the two

I have concerns over Wright and McCartin, all kinds
Wright with his back problems and if he'll be able to match it with the quicker defenders in the AFL

McCartin, with his diabetes and not been very versatile
Plenty more concerns as well, just can't think of any at the moment

 

[The_Book_Of_Eli43]

Disagree. Riewoldt, Hayes and Montagna are that good, they'll drag st kilda to another win or 2. Maybe against us.

Gws need to find their mojo ASAP or agree that they're going to struggle to win more games this year.

Sorry if i am not welcome guys just also interested in draft discussion since it's going to be a long second half of the year, so why not get into the draft early.

But just on this - those three players won't help us win anymore games, so i wouldn't hinge much hopes at all on us winning anymore games so you guys can snag a better selection. Our second half of the year will be tough for us and our injury list is helping you of snagging a better pick. Really we were lucky to beat both Melbourne and GWS in for some pain over the second half of 2014 and the next few years.

Saints & Dogs have a lot in common already and now we both desperately need key forwards! I really like the direction you guys are heading very talented kids on your list, hopefully you guys can all see a second premiership shortly with this list.

 

[Dav1d]

Sorry if i am not welcome guys just also interested in draft discussion since it's going to be a long second half of the year, so why not get into the draft early.

But just on this - those three players won't help us win anymore games, so i wouldn't hinge much hopes at all on us winning anymore games so you guys can snag a better selection. Our second half of the year will be tough for us and our injury list is helping you of snagging a better pick. Really we were lucky to beat both Melbourne and GWS in for some pain over the second half of 2014 and the next few years.

Saints & Dogs have a lot in common already and now we both desperately need key forwards! I really like the direction you guys are heading very talented kids on your list, hopefully you guys can all see a second premiership shortly with this list.

That was more talking about which of us would deserve a priority pick, I personally think it should be out of Brisbane and Dogs
but someone said, they think St Kilda

I'd take any second 1st round pick in the draft, just want more talent on the list over all
key forwards or not

both our recruiters will also have an eye on next year so don't fret if you miss out on certain players because there might be a better option the next year as unfortunately I don't see either of us turning it around anytime soon

 

[TempleKelvington]

Good point jtg. Macca mentions it as an issue in just about every press conference but I am yet to hear him talk about how we are tackling it.

We need to score more when we have our chances.....every team gains and loses momentum in a game, we just don't score enough when we have it. We work very hard often for little reward. We need a much better forward structure so we don't have to be so cute all the time. We should have been a few goals up at 1/2 time, if we had been, when the GC got a run on we had some buffer. Crameri is getting just about the best defender....he should be getting the third best.

 

[TempleKelvington]

What we need to do this draft is like we always have to do. Get the best possible player available. If it's a KP player then we must grab him. Unless he's freak, I want a big bodied monster

Who are the 5 best big bodied KP players in this draft?

What should we be prepared to do about Z.Cordy? It would seem unlikely we would need to part with our first pick. But would we if forced?

 

[doggies ftw]

We need to score more when we have our chances.....every team gains and loses momentum in a game, we just don't score enough when we have it. We work very hard often for little reward. We need a much better forward structure so we don't have to be so cute all the time. We should have been a few goals up at 1/2 time, if we had been, when the GC got a run on we had some buffer. Crameri is getting just about the best defender....he should be getting the third best.

We had our chances just were inaccurate, iirc we were going at a very high scoring efficiency from our inside 50s it's not too bad down there

 

[Wizard17]

What we need to do this draft is like we always have to do. Get the best possible player available. If it's a KP player then we must grab him. Unless he's freak, I want a big bodied monster

Who are the 5 best big bodied KP players in this draft?

What should we be prepared to do about Z.Cordy? It would seem unlikely we would need to part with our first pick. But would we if forced?

1st Round: Wright, Durdin, McCartin, Goddard, Lamb (if he grows a little)
2nd Round: Kietel, Watchman, McLaren
Later on: Ferrari, Z. Cordy

If you include guys who can play ruck/forward like Kovacevic (204cm 111kg though he more of a No.1 ruckman who can rest forward and be dangerous cause of sheer body mass) then they'll be around later on too.

 

[TempleKelvington]

We had our chances just were inaccurate, iirc we were going at a very high scoring efficiency from our inside 50s it's not too bad down there

Ok....so if that is all hunky dory why do we not put scoreboard on our opposition?

 

[igloo dweller]

What should we be prepared to do about Z.Cordy? It would seem unlikely we would need to part with our first pick. But would we if forced?

no-one is going to bid on cordy with the first 4 picks in the draft. if they did, commit them to the asylum, wish zaine well and then pick mccartin/wright/durdin...

 

[TempleKelvington]

no-one is going to bid on cordy with the first 4 picks in the draft. if they did, commit them to the asylum, wish zaine well and then pick mccartin/wright/durdin...

Yep....I suspected as much. Which means we'll grab him with a second rounder? Or will that also be overs. I have heard he's a very good prospect, Mick Turner rates him, but he also rated Ayce extremely highly so maybe take that for what it is.

 

[doggies ftw]

Ok....so if that is all hunky dory why do we not put scoreboard on our opposition?

Doesn't help when you kick 5.8

It can definitely get better though, like you said Crameri can't be getting the best defender but with Jones and Grant back it will help a lot. I really want to get Goddard to play as that athletic lead up CHF. Williams has been okay there but we can't rely on him.

If we can get Jones and then Williams/Goddard or someone else to take the two best talls. Crameri and Grant will be a handful on the 3rd and 4th defender. Surround them with some good smalls like Dahl, honey, Stevens and we have more than enough scoring power just need to take our chances a bit more.

I'm a bit worried about our second ruck though we just cant afford rely on guys like Jones and Roberts to back up. Desperately need Cordy to step up. He needs to be given a chance soon to see if he's really improved

 

[TBOW]

What we need to do this draft is like we always have to do. Get the best possible player available.

I'm not entirely convinced that is what we have done in the past couple of drafts.
I would say we draft the player who best exhibits the skills & personality traits that Macca has deemed desirable.

I think it would have been widely accepted at draft time that Aish was a better player than Bonts, but Macca loved his attitude & has placed a premium on big midfielders with good awareness. As much as we all have high hopes that Bonts will become a star, we sure could use a guy like Aish on our team.

I also don't think we can afford to simply take the best available this year, as we have so many glaring deficiencies on our list. Would we take the best available player if he was an inside mid & the second best player available was a juggernaut forward?

 

[josh the gent]

So? Who cares about scoring shots as a stat.

I think we should add more fast players. Seriously, what's the problem?

Scoring shots are probably the best way to see which team has controlled the game I reckon.

Kicking accuracy usually fluctuates from week to week and can influence results, but scoring shots usually tells u which team should have won. I.e. Collingwood should have beaten the Saints in the 2010 drawn gf (and didn't due to unfortunate bad kicking), then proved it the following week.

I have no problem that u think we could get more speed, but I do have an issue that u pin that lack of speed on why we aren't winning.

I maintain that it is due to the 1.5 quarter lapses we have.

 

[Mofra]

Anyone with blistering pace, enough endurance to run for 4 quarters & a high quality kick would be perfect.

Jason Tutt

Seriously, I'm not the only one who has harped on about the need for a genuine rebounder, and a line-breaking mid would have to be high on the priority list too.
Jury's out on JJ, Wood is an athlete first, footballer second. Macrae can get through traffic but that's due to his side-step, not pace.

 

[Mofra]

Scoring shots are probably the best way to see which team has controlled the game I reckon.

To an extent - but the location of those shots also needs to be factored in.

Our shots were often under pressure, from lower % parts of the F50. Gold Coast had higher quality F50 entries which meant they were taking shots from more gettable areas, hence their higher conversion rate.

As poor as our forwardline often functions, part of this comes from lower quality F50 entries. We tend to "hack" a lot of ball in.