List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Silvagnis]

Carlton must be interested in replicating our VFL success.

Has anybody actually informed Carlton that the top tier isn't the VFL anymore?

Are we chasing Russell and Austin?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Are we chasing Russell and Austin?

The irony isn't lost on me, although that dynamic duo cost us one rookie draft pick, you paid a premium for L-Jizz

I've been meaning to ask, what's this 'That shit Macrae' business?

 

[conVINCEd]

I reckon you guys will be laughing in years to come if you land McDonald and Menadue with your 26 and 26.

I'd think the Crows would select either with #35 if they happen to fall that far, although I don't think they will.

 

[Dav1d]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ing-field-for-recruiters-20141115-11nfn5.html

Emma Quayle rates the players from this years draft

 

[True Dog]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ing-field-for-recruiters-20141115-11nfn5.html

Emma Quayle rates the players from this years draft

Interesting that McDonald & McKenzie don't even make the top 30... This promises to be one of the most even drafts in memory.. Our recruiting team will be working double time this year

 

[BRWB]

I'll confess I don't watch the youngsters, but looking at needs and other watchers' descriptions....been thinking....

Would it be crazy to take Reece McKenzie and Oscar McDonald with 26 and 27? We know we need bookends (even with Boyd). From accounts McKenzie is a very different fwd to Boyd anyway. McDonald seems a pretty safe bet to be a reasonable KPD, while McKenzie seems boom or bust, with Knightmare having a pretty big chubby over him, while many others rate him a flat track bully. I got to admit, the description Knightmare has of him and his reasoning for his status is really interesting. Basketballer, didn't play fwd til later in year. Explosive, fast better hands than Hawkins....wow..

In Quayle's draft they got apologies for missing top 30 and seem likely to be gone by 39. For instance I could see Nth and Syd picking at least one of them.

And it just seems that the mids are pretty even and its more likely someone like Gore or D McKenzie will slip to 39, and someone like Cavka will slip to mid 40's. Even quality like Lamb, Keitel or Caleb whats his name could be around in the mid 40s.

I just feel that for our window, picking the KPs now is probably right, and that we can get away with waiting till later in the draft or next year for the speedy ball users we need, as they will likely take less development time than the KPs we need.

What do the young player watchers think?

From Knightmare's summary..noting he has McCartin ranked behind him..

5. Reece McKenzie (VIC – KPF/Ruck)
Height: 196cm, Weight: 106kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Recruited from: Northern Knights
Draft range: 20-50
Best position/role: Full forward.
Strengths:
Go to guy talent – McKenzie with his size, presence and contested marking ability is a genuine go to guy in the front half. He has the performances on the board and proven production whereby from July onward in this role he absolutely dominated and looked like the dominant key forward in the TAC Cup. McKenzie can draw double and triple teams and is a handful for any key defender to contain, particularly deep in the forward 50 with his contested marking ability, ability in the air and ability on the lead.
Contested marking/marking ability – McKenzie has vice-like hands overhead and consistently takes the big contested grabs at the absolute highest point making him near on undefendable as someone who even with heavy contact will still take his marks overhead. His contested marking numbers are elite at TAC Cup level. He has a rare presence in the front half when he goes for his marks. He takes advantage of smaller opponents 1v1 with superior body work and can bully anyone physically at TAC Cup level in the contest just with the use of his body. He takes the big pack grabs and reads the flight better than opposition defenders. He crashes packs and will if anyone is in his way knock them over with force. He is an unstoppable mark in the air and is near impossible to stop when he launches at the ball due to his size, strength, power and an impressive vertical leap (72cm which was top 10 at the draft combine) which is staggering for such a big guy. He is also a significant threat on the lead as someone with rare acceleration on the lead and excellent ability to create separation (and we saw it at the draft combine with his 2.87 seconds over 20m which was equal second best) which also is ridiculous for someone his size. He also has nice variety on his leads and leads to good spots making him unpredictable on the lead.
Total athletic package – At 106kg McKenzie has excellent size and strength for his age and he has clearly put the time and effort in, in the gym. 1v1 McKenzie has rare strength in the contest and is a near immovable object with the strength through his legs and core strength. He has an excellent 72cm vertical leap making him impossible to stop in the air with his ability to consistently take it strongly at the highest point, regardless of contact. Then he also has a 2.87 second 20m sprint time which if not for an American project player would have been equal best at the draft combine and he uses that speed to breakaway on the lead as someone no key defender can stay with once he is up and moving, consistently creating separation on the lead regardless of who is defending him.
Scoreboard impact – McKenzie is one of leading goalkickers in the TAC Cup and has shown he can take over games and have a heavy impact on the scoreboard with 10, 7 and 6 goal games in the TAC Cup this season as well as a 16 goal game for Marcellin College.
Strong improvement as year has progressed suggesting significant upside – McKenzie from July onward made the shift from playing a mix of forward and ruck minutes to a full time key forward and since then he has significantly lifted his scoreboard impact and contested mark totals. His numbers over the second half of the season have been a significant improvement on what he was showing over the first half of the season and while the role change to permanent forward has definitely helped him in achieving this it is difficult to ignore the sharp improvement in his scoreboard impact and contested marking totals. Given this sharp improvement in production I evaluate McKenzie’s upside to be exceptionally high with his numbers evidence of the speed with which he is improving and I anticipate that sharp improvement to continue into the future. Additionally having spent last year playing basketball instead of football I cannot help but think the fact that he is putting up these numbers having not played TAC Cup last year suggests strong upside and substantial scope to improve further as he plays more inside an AFL system.
Weaknesses:
Ability to hit the scoreboard from general play – McKenzie is very much a mark and goal forward who will get a large volume of set shot attempts at goal but few if any shots at goal from general play. If you have a guy who can match McKenzie for size and strength at the next level it is likely that he will get shut out of games as his game is very much just going out there and marking everything. At ground level McKenzie is dexterous and can pick up the footy relatively cleanly off the deck but he is not a goal scoring threat when he wins it at ground level as he lacks the ability to turn opposition players around and run into an open goal or create adequate time and space for himself at ground level to get it onto his boot.
Does not have the same impact against better opponents – McKenzie has capitalised against weaker opponents in a big way but his impact has been less against the better teams with better key defenders such as Oakleigh Chargers as his only game where he did not kick multiple goals from July onward.
Slow change of direction/limited agility – As such a big guy while explosive on the lead he is not someone who changes direction quickly. He is not someone who will turn on a dime and changes direction, and as a result he is not someone who is a threat running back into an open goal. He also is not someone who makes, agile steps to create the time and space for himself after winning a ground ball as someone who in general play takes time to get the ball onto his boot for a shot at goal. As a result after winning a ground ball he will just be handballing it off to a team mate which is fine, but he is just not going to kick a whole lot of goals from general play throughout his career. He is also more a one lead only guy rather than someone capable of providing multiple leads given the sheer momentum he has with the speed and power behind his leads.
Set shot goalkicking – McKenzie’s kicked a very good 35 goals, 22 behinds, which is fine but his set shot conversation while it improved as the season progressed is an area that would benefit from further improvement.
What I expect will improve:
McKenzie I feel will continue in the most part make his strengths more dominant and take his dominant contested marking, marking in the air, marking on the lead and scoreboard impact to the next level where it eventually translates at AFL level.
Who he can become?
McKenzie has the scope to develop into a similar quality forward to Tom Hawkins as that similar style of dominant, deep full forward, but with greater athleticism and much stronger overhead marking ability as someone less reliant on his physical size to dominate.
When will he be ready to play?
McKenzie I anticipate will take three years before he establishes himself as a regular for a team and until season four before McKenzie really realises his potential and becomes a genuine go to guy. As a big marking forward he is not going to be able to take advantage of guys physically at AFL level right away so there will be an adjustment period getting accustomed to the bigger bodied but at his size and with his dominant marking ability, strength, ability in the air and ability on the lead his game can translate to AFL level.
How to best utilise him?
McKenzie is best used at full forward as the go to target in the front half. Play him anywhere else, and that includes even in a relief ruck role and it is a waste of his talent.
Interpretation of his numbers:
McKenzie has put forward some dominant performances forward through the TAC Cup and for his school. His numbers are clearly best when utilised as a full time key forward as evidenced by his much improved mark, contested mark and goal scoring totals over the second half of the season. His numbers are trending sharply upward as the season has progressed which suggests he will continue this trend over coming seasons. His scoreboard impact and marking over the second half of the season have been outstanding and after Patrick McCartin has been arguably the next most dominant key forward with his contested marking numbers the strongest in this draft class.


6. Patrick McCartin (VIC - KPF)
Height: 193cm, Weight: 95kg, DOB: 19/04/1996

 

[Gmod23]

I'll confess I don't watch the youngsters, but looking at needs and other watchers' descriptions....been thinking....

Would it be crazy to take Reece McKenzie and Oscar McDonald with 26 and 27? We know we need bookends (even with Boyd). From accounts McKenzie is a very different fwd to Boyd anyway. McDonald seems a pretty safe bet to be a reasonable KPD, while McKenzie seems boom or bust, with Knightmare having a pretty big chubby over him, while many others rate him a flat track bully. I got to admit, the description Knightmare has of him and his reasoning for his status is really interesting. Basketballer, didn't play fwd til later in year. Explosive, fast better hands than Hawkins....wow..

In Quayle's draft they got apologies for missing top 30 and seem likely to be gone by 39. For instance I could see Nth and Syd picking at least one of them.

And it just seems that the mids are pretty even and its more likely someone like Gore or D McKenzie will slip to 39, and someone like Cavka will slip to mid 40's. Even quality like Lamb, Keitel or Caleb whats his name could be around in the mid 40s.

I just feel that for our window, picking the KPs now is probably right, and that we can get away with waiting till later in the draft or next year for the speedy ball users we need, as they will likely take less development time than the KPs we need.

What do the young player watchers think?

From Knightmare's summary..noting he has McCartin ranked behind him..

5. Reece McKenzie (VIC – KPF/Ruck)
Height: 196cm, Weight: 106kg, DOB: 28/03/1996
Recruited from: Northern Knights
Draft range: 20-50
Best position/role: Full forward.
Strengths:
Go to guy talent – McKenzie with his size, presence and contested marking ability is a genuine go to guy in the front half. He has the performances on the board and proven production whereby from July onward in this role he absolutely dominated and looked like the dominant key forward in the TAC Cup. McKenzie can draw double and triple teams and is a handful for any key defender to contain, particularly deep in the forward 50 with his contested marking ability, ability in the air and ability on the lead.
Contested marking/marking ability – McKenzie has vice-like hands overhead and consistently takes the big contested grabs at the absolute highest point making him near on undefendable as someone who even with heavy contact will still take his marks overhead. His contested marking numbers are elite at TAC Cup level. He has a rare presence in the front half when he goes for his marks. He takes advantage of smaller opponents 1v1 with superior body work and can bully anyone physically at TAC Cup level in the contest just with the use of his body. He takes the big pack grabs and reads the flight better than opposition defenders. He crashes packs and will if anyone is in his way knock them over with force. He is an unstoppable mark in the air and is near impossible to stop when he launches at the ball due to his size, strength, power and an impressive vertical leap (72cm which was top 10 at the draft combine) which is staggering for such a big guy. He is also a significant threat on the lead as someone with rare acceleration on the lead and excellent ability to create separation (and we saw it at the draft combine with his 2.87 seconds over 20m which was equal second best) which also is ridiculous for someone his size. He also has nice variety on his leads and leads to good spots making him unpredictable on the lead.
Total athletic package – At 106kg McKenzie has excellent size and strength for his age and he has clearly put the time and effort in, in the gym. 1v1 McKenzie has rare strength in the contest and is a near immovable object with the strength through his legs and core strength. He has an excellent 72cm vertical leap making him impossible to stop in the air with his ability to consistently take it strongly at the highest point, regardless of contact. Then he also has a 2.87 second 20m sprint time which if not for an American project player would have been equal best at the draft combine and he uses that speed to breakaway on the lead as someone no key defender can stay with once he is up and moving, consistently creating separation on the lead regardless of who is defending him.
Scoreboard impact – McKenzie is one of leading goalkickers in the TAC Cup and has shown he can take over games and have a heavy impact on the scoreboard with 10, 7 and 6 goal games in the TAC Cup this season as well as a 16 goal game for Marcellin College.
Strong improvement as year has progressed suggesting significant upside – McKenzie from July onward made the shift from playing a mix of forward and ruck minutes to a full time key forward and since then he has significantly lifted his scoreboard impact and contested mark totals. His numbers over the second half of the season have been a significant improvement on what he was showing over the first half of the season and while the role change to permanent forward has definitely helped him in achieving this it is difficult to ignore the sharp improvement in his scoreboard impact and contested marking totals. Given this sharp improvement in production I evaluate McKenzie’s upside to be exceptionally high with his numbers evidence of the speed with which he is improving and I anticipate that sharp improvement to continue into the future. Additionally having spent last year playing basketball instead of football I cannot help but think the fact that he is putting up these numbers having not played TAC Cup last year suggests strong upside and substantial scope to improve further as he plays more inside an AFL system.
Weaknesses:
Ability to hit the scoreboard from general play – McKenzie is very much a mark and goal forward who will get a large volume of set shot attempts at goal but few if any shots at goal from general play. If you have a guy who can match McKenzie for size and strength at the next level it is likely that he will get shut out of games as his game is very much just going out there and marking everything. At ground level McKenzie is dexterous and can pick up the footy relatively cleanly off the deck but he is not a goal scoring threat when he wins it at ground level as he lacks the ability to turn opposition players around and run into an open goal or create adequate time and space for himself at ground level to get it onto his boot.
Does not have the same impact against better opponents – McKenzie has capitalised against weaker opponents in a big way but his impact has been less against the better teams with better key defenders such as Oakleigh Chargers as his only game where he did not kick multiple goals from July onward.
Slow change of direction/limited agility – As such a big guy while explosive on the lead he is not someone who changes direction quickly. He is not someone who will turn on a dime and changes direction, and as a result he is not someone who is a threat running back into an open goal. He also is not someone who makes, agile steps to create the time and space for himself after winning a ground ball as someone who in general play takes time to get the ball onto his boot for a shot at goal. As a result after winning a ground ball he will just be handballing it off to a team mate which is fine, but he is just not going to kick a whole lot of goals from general play throughout his career. He is also more a one lead only guy rather than someone capable of providing multiple leads given the sheer momentum he has with the speed and power behind his leads.
Set shot goalkicking – McKenzie’s kicked a very good 35 goals, 22 behinds, which is fine but his set shot conversation while it improved as the season progressed is an area that would benefit from further improvement.
What I expect will improve:
McKenzie I feel will continue in the most part make his strengths more dominant and take his dominant contested marking, marking in the air, marking on the lead and scoreboard impact to the next level where it eventually translates at AFL level.
Who he can become?
McKenzie has the scope to develop into a similar quality forward to Tom Hawkins as that similar style of dominant, deep full forward, but with greater athleticism and much stronger overhead marking ability as someone less reliant on his physical size to dominate.
When will he be ready to play?
McKenzie I anticipate will take three years before he establishes himself as a regular for a team and until season four before McKenzie really realises his potential and becomes a genuine go to guy. As a big marking forward he is not going to be able to take advantage of guys physically at AFL level right away so there will be an adjustment period getting accustomed to the bigger bodied but at his size and with his dominant marking ability, strength, ability in the air and ability on the lead his game can translate to AFL level.
How to best utilise him?
McKenzie is best used at full forward as the go to target in the front half. Play him anywhere else, and that includes even in a relief ruck role and it is a waste of his talent.
Interpretation of his numbers:
McKenzie has put forward some dominant performances forward through the TAC Cup and for his school. His numbers are clearly best when utilised as a full time key forward as evidenced by his much improved mark, contested mark and goal scoring totals over the second half of the season. His numbers are trending sharply upward as the season has progressed which suggests he will continue this trend over coming seasons. His scoreboard impact and marking over the second half of the season have been outstanding and after Patrick McCartin has been arguably the next most dominant key forward with his contested marking numbers the strongest in this draft class.


6. Patrick McCartin (VIC - KPF)
Height: 193cm, Weight: 95kg, DOB: 19/04/1996

I don't think Mckenzie will be an option for us. IF he is, I like the bookend draft strategy.

 

[Yojimbo]

#26- Brayden Maynard
#27- Dean Gore
#39- Lukas Webb
#45- Jack Geary
#46- Daniel Howe
I would be happy with something like that combination
footballers first along with the obligatory who the hell
is that guy pick at #45. 23 year old midfield beast
from the Bendigo league (see afl site).

 

[Super Hans]

I'll go mental if Marchbank is available at 26. Can't see him getting through Carlton. Marchbank and Blakely is my dream combo, but can't see both them sliding.

Alex Neal-Bullen is one that is hardly talked about on here, thoughts on him? Dannnnnnnnnn? I still think we need an inside ball winner, and if Blakely is gone he fits the profile.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I'm personally not a great fan of McKenzie, he didn't look anything special to me. The time that I saw him, his defender out smarted him on the lead and then McKenzie had to rely on his strength to win out. While he's been compared to Hawkins, I don't think he has anywhere near the footy smarts as Hawkins. Not saying it's awful, just that Hawkins has him covered by a fair way and McCartin for that matter does too. Under an AFL system he can certainly improve that and I think he can become a good forward with his athleticism in time. But I don't share the same optimism that Knightmare does in having him so far up the draft order. His endurance should be listed as a weakness by the way.

Will he compliment Boyd? Not sure McKenzie is all that different to Boyd. Both are more FF's, though Boyd could play across CHF if he can get his endurance up to scratch. It would be a very interesting combination if we did land them. But personally I'd rather go small, speedy and best available with our first two picks. McKenzie could easily be a bust especially as he's rumoured to have a few mental demons. Roughead in his first season showed he could become a very capable forward, not sure what's happened since then. I think we should give him another go up there. Draft another key back later in the draft like Nielson or Buykx-Smith.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I have a question. If we recruit Daniel McKenzie, Daniel Nielson and then rookie Daniel Pearce is this a problem? Is this too many Daniel sons? Do we need to get Mr Miyagi in as a development coach?

 

[Big Wilbur]

Beveridge has mentioned in an interview that he sees our defence needing the most work. Would be surprised if he doesn't attempt to address this in the draft which may mean grabbing someone like McDonald with our early picks.

 

[VitalDread]

You know how QLD and NSW have their academy to help blood the younger kids in their state.

Should the club considering doing a Western Region academy?
Say have it set up via the WRFL (kinda like we do with the VFL listed players) but target and train the younger players before they considering going into the TAC cup system and maybe in the future Bulldogs own a development side for those players that train with the VFL listed players etc.

which would mean we would have a
AFL team
VFL team
VWFL team
VFDL team.
With all the goverment funding we seem to be getting for boosting our growth in the western region could be something worth investing.


Would require a lot of changes to my idea but it's something that could boost memberships and overall growth in the Western Region of Victoria.

 

[Testekill]

I'd like that idea but I think that the AFL would stop us because it would give us an unfair advantage somehow.

 

[100action]

You know how QLD and NSW have their academy to help blood the younger kids in their state.

Should the club considering doing a Western Region academy?
Say have it set up via the WRFL (kinda like we do with the VFL listed players) but target and train the younger players before they considering going into the TAC cup system and maybe in the future Bulldogs own a development side for those players that train with the VFL listed players etc.

which would mean we would have a
AFL team
VFL team
VWFL team
VFDL team.
With all the goverment funding we seem to be getting for boosting our growth in the western region could be something worth investing.


Would require a lot of changes to my idea but it's something that could boost memberships and overall growth in the Western Region of Victoria.

Academies are too unfair and should be removed.

The only reason they bother funding and doing academies is so they have priority to draft players.

A western region academy this year would net us all of Duggan, Laverde, Menadue, Ellis, Viojo-Rainbow, Ahern which would never see the light of day.

 

[VitalDread]

According to a few people on fb, we have interviewed this bloke.

yes i know it's fb source.

 

[VitalDread]

Academies are too unfair and should be removed.

The only reason they bother funding and doing academies is so they have priority to draft players.

A western region academy this year would net us all of Duggan, Laverde, Menadue, Ellis, Viojo-Rainbow, Ahern which would never see the light of day.

I'm ok with this hahaha

 

[Testekill]

Academies are too unfair and should be removed.

The only reason they bother funding and doing academies is so they have priority to draft players.

A western region academy this year would net us all of Duggan, Laverde, Menadue, Ellis, Viojo-Rainbow, Ahern which would never see the light of day.

Sounds more like setting up pathways through the WRFL to the Bulldogs VFL team and then hopefully getting signed from there.

 

[Dav1d]

According to a few people on fb, we have interviewed this bloke.

yes i know it's fb source.

For a later pick, I hope so

Good endurance and a good kick, I think he get a load of the ball in one of the Champs games
until he got a heavy bump right in the nose

I'm ok with this hahaha

perhaps we offer a clinic to the Jets players in the future, so they wish to nominate us?

 

[House_of_Dahl]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ing-field-for-recruiters-20141115-11nfn5.html

Emma Quayle rates the players from this years draft

She has Goddard at 23

 

[Dav1d]

She has Goddard at 23

Yeah and?

that is in order of how she'd take them, not how she thinks it'll play out
obviously

 

[Doggies7]

Why go for Foster when they just traded for Jones?

It's weird, it's like some teams think you should have more than 1 KPF...

 

[Dogsman16]

Hypothetical - Reece McKenzie is sitting untouched at pick 26. Whose taking him with one of our picks and who wouldn't?

 

[True Dog]

Hypothetical - Reece McKenzie is sitting untouched at pick 26. Whose taking him with one of our picks and who wouldn't?

I'm taking him, I know he has his detractors but his combine stats along with his size and marking ability make him to good to pass up IMO.....

 

[Yojimbo]

Hypothetical - Reece McKenzie is sitting untouched at pick 26. Whose taking him with one of our picks and who wouldn't?

If Tyler Kietel is also available he would be a better fit more mobile, Reece
McKenzie is too similar to big Tom Boyd there can be only one.