Opinion 2014 Draft ( Live discussion ) Mod notice post #6629

[Azul]

with the preseason draft tomoz any chance that we may take two picks in the preseason draft and effectively have our choice of the best rookie?

No value in passing on 3 picks in the ND, only to use them all up in the PSD. For better or worse, they like 6 rookies.

It's a bit of a lottery in the rookie draft when you don't know who's available. WCE have publicly stated they wanted an extra pick in the RD but Cavka was too good to pass up. Who knows if we were interested in any of the 5 live selections after we passed at pick 71.

 

[Dramoth]

There is a certain leeway post draft.

However long term, we're not in the habit of repeating 'should haves' over and over, and discussing players we did not select, who now play for another team, and who we are not looking at trading for anytime soon. Becomes just a pointless cycle of negativity.

BB, DVR, Smith and Foster will be discussed based on their playing merits, and Rogers will be assessed based on his selections after a reasonable period of time when it can be assessed clearly.

I do note that Daniel Rich came out of the blocks quickly and the board reacted in regards to the Yarran selection. I dare say most of those now love it when Yarran breaks the line, takes a bounce and slams a goal home on one of his forward forays. We just need to be more realistic about these things.

When I was talking about all the noise people were making about us taking Boekie at 19 with my dad, I made the Rich/Yarran comparison to him and how most people now love Yazz because of his x-factor while Rich has slumped down to being a serviceable inside mid. There is nothing great about him, but at the time... some of our supporters (mainly the ones now bagging Rogers for taking BB at 19) thought that Rich was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that we screwed up by not taking him.

While Hughes did make a lot of stuff ups. I believe that he was between a rock and a hard place with some of his selections because of the old boys network within the club and the pressure that would have been brought to bear to get him to select player y instead of player x.

The McLean trade was perhaps the worst thing that we have ever done... and I suspect that it was Ratten putting the pressure on to get him at all costs before someone else came in and took him away from us. The problem is that with his previous injuries... no one else really wanted him and we paid massive overs for him.

 

[coryne]

Any news on who we may be targeting today in the rookie draft (Tutt in the PSD is a formality .........). I am assuming that a developing ruckman will be in there somewhere.

 

[Azul]

Any news on who we may be targeting today in the rookie draft (Tutt in the PSD is a formality .........). I am assuming that a developing ruckman will be in there somewhere.

You're in the wrong thread. Check here.

Billy Gowers, son of Andy, is the whisper.

 

[Dramoth]

Well the AFL has put up their ratings of who did well at the draft... and according to Chris Pelchen, we only got a C+... but those red and black scum rated a ****ing B... WTF.

They got in Cooney, Giles and Gwilt and Langford and and Laverde... and we did worse than them? I mean piss off.

A former Brownlow medalist on his last knee, a 26 year old ruckman who has played 51 games and Gwilt... who isnt a footballers arseh*le if you want to get right down to it and a couple of rated kids and they get a B rating.

Even the Mutts did better than us according to Pelchen... despite losing their captain and Cooney and Jones and Tutt... they get a B-

In fact... there was only 1 other team who got less than a B-... Bitchmond.

 

[Gabagool]

Well the AFL has put up their ratings of who did well at the draft... and according to Chris Pelchen, we only got a C+... but those red and black scum rated a ******* B... WTF.

They got in Cooney, Giles and Gwilt and Langford and and Laverde... and we did worse than them? I mean piss off.

A former Brownlow medalist on his last knee, a 26 year old ruckman who has played 51 games and Gwilt... who isnt a footballers arseh*le if you want to get right down to it and a couple of rated kids and they get a B rating.

Even the Mutts did better than us according to Pelchen... despite losing their captain and Cooney and Jones and Tutt... they get a B-

In fact... there was only 1 other team who got less than a B-... Bitchmond.

I was pretty confused about that too, especially considering he mentioned why we got rid of Garlett, Robbo and Waite and that Jaksch is highly rated.

Very hard to see how the Bombers did better than us and how we received the worst mark. What a flog!

 

[SE_Blue]

I'm not too worried about what people like Pelchen think to be quite honest, nor would I bother expending too much energy getting worked up over it.

 

[slashin_velvet]

In fact... there was only 1 other team who got less than a B-... Bitchmond.

I rated Richmond as one of the stronger performers at the draft....sure they didnt trade, but their picks seem pretty good.

 

[Dramoth]

I rated Richmond as one of the stronger performers at the draft....sure they didnt trade, but their picks seem pretty good.

I know... thats what I really cant get my head around...

 

[LemmingMaster]

Well the AFL has put up their ratings of who did well at the draft... and according to Chris Pelchen, we only got a C+... but those red and black scum rated a ******* B... WTF.

They got in Cooney, Giles and Gwilt and Langford and and Laverde... and we did worse than them? I mean piss off.

Maybe he rated Langford and Laverde highly and he did not rate our draft selections.

Maybe he is giving you an insight into how some other clubs rated our selections?

 

[Azul]

Langford will be an absolute superstar.

 

[Dramoth]

Maybe he rated Langford and Laverde highly and he did not rate our draft selections.

Maybe he is giving you an insight into how some other clubs rated our selections?

The only one of our selections that was a bit iffy was BB... and the only thing iffy about it was the timing. The rest of our selections and trade selections were first class so get off your high horse and stop bagging our recruiting department.

Mick is the only person I trust atm to put the rule over our recruiting this year and he is as happy as Larry with the people we got. So in that respect our selections gets an A.

And just as an aside... just before the draft, Emma Quayle was saying that we were going to take Blaine with pick 19. So it wasnt unexpected.

 

[LemmingMaster]

The only one of our selections that was a bit iffy was BB... and the only thing iffy about it was the timing. The rest of our selections and trade selections were first class so get off your high horse and stop bagging our recruiting department.
In your eyes the only iffy selection was BB, maybe in Pelchan's it was more than that.
I did not bag our recruitment department in my post, I just told you a reason WHY he might have given the club a C. I know YOU personally want to give it an A, but that does not mean everyone else has the same thoughts as you. How is that horse of yours?
Mick is the only person I trust atm to put the rule over our recruiting this year and he is as happy as Larry with the people we got. So in that respect our selections gets an A.
Be honest, what coach would come out and say, whoa we screwed up... Of course he is going to be happy.
And just as an aside... just before the draft, Emma Quayle was saying that we were going to take Blaine with pick 19. So it wasnt unexpected.

Emma was saying Blaine at 19 because she talks to clubs and our club made it semi obvious we planned on picking Blaine that high a WEEK before the draft.

 

[Dramoth]

Emma was saying Blaine at 19 because she talks to clubs and our club made it semi obvious we planned on picking Blaine that high a WEEK before the draft.

I honestly think that our recruiting this year is more worthy of a B or a B+. I havent said it was worthy of an A.

The club had a directive from the list manager and the coach as to what we wanted. We wanted some fast footballers with good disposal skills and we got them. To me, thats first class effort on the part of the recruiting department. The players we got filled the requirements of the club... the club doesnt pander to the requirements of the supporters.

Just because some people wanted Laverde doesnt necessarily mean that the club wanted him.

Now... if Weller had slide to 19 and the club had still taken Blaine, I think that the outcry would be much more justified. However... thinking that the recruiting department is doing a shit job because we didnt take peoples favourites is a bit of a joke really.

 

[Lace_Out]

The thing with Laverde is it's a really different name and stands out accordingly. So effectively he has stood out more than others and been imprinted in peoples minds. That doesnt make him a better player. The fact that he was fancied to so many and still slid out to 20 is alarming.

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm kind of amused at the apparent controversy of pick number 19 and knowing how it is way too early to know how good many of these draftees are. Certainly amusing to think people can know so much about players that barely been seen play and get so fixated on whom gets picked in what order.

I thought I'd paste the following drafts just for some overall sense of what pick 19 is and how orders of players in ranking can easily change over time. Shows not really important to get carried away thinking some supposed ranking in 2014 is going to be accurate seven to ten years down the track.


2005 National Draft
Pick Drafted By Player Current Team Games Since Drafted
1 Priority Carlton Marc Murphy Carlton 185
2 Priority Collingwood Dale Thomas Carlton 177
3 Priority Hawthorn Xavier Ellis West Coast 103
1 4 Carlton Joshua Kennedy West Coast 140
1 5 Collingwood Scott Pendlebury Collingwood 192
1 6 Hawthorn Beau Dowler 16
1 7 Essendon Patrick Ryder Port Adelaide 170
1 8 Richmond Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls 13
1 9 Brisbane Mitchell Clark Geelong 97
1 10 Fremantle Marcus Drum 22
1 11 Western Bulldogs Shaun Higgins North Melbourne 129
1 12 Melbourne Nathan Jones Melbourne 179
1 13 West Coast Shannon Hurn West Coast 152
1 14 Hawthorn Grant Birchall Hawthorn 194
1 15 Geelong Travis Varcoe Collingwood 138
1 16 Adelaide Richard Douglas Adelaide 155
1 17 Adelaide Darren Pfeiffer 23
1 18 Hawthorn Max Bailey 43
1 19 Essendon Courtenay Dempsey Essendon 106
2 20 Carlton Paul Bower 70
2 21 Collingwood Danny Stanley Gold Coast 80
2 22 Hawthorn Beau Muston 13
2 23 Collingwood Ryan Cook 14
2 24 Richmond Cleve Hughes 16
2 25 Brisbane Wayde Mills 16
2 26 Fremantle Garrick Ibbotson Fremantle 127
2 27 Western Bulldogs Dylan Addison GWS 93
2 28 North Melbourne Matt Riggio 10
2 29 West Coast Ben McKinley 48
2 30 Port Adelaide Nick Lower 55

2006 National Draft
Round Pick Drafted By Player Current Team Games Since Drafted
1 1 Carlton Bryce Gibbs Carlton 177
1 2 Essendon Scott Gumbleton 35
1 3 North Melbourne Lachlan Hansen North Melbourne 117
1 4 Brisbane Matthew Leuenberger Brisbane 94
1 5 Port Adelaide Travis Boak Port Adelaide 155
1 6 Hawthorn Mitchell Thorp 2
1 7 Geelong Joel Selwood Geelong 184
1 8 Collingwood Ben Reid Collingwood 99
1 9 St Kilda David Armitage St Kilda 107
1 10 Collingwood Nathan Brown Collingwood 93
1 11 Western Bulldogs Andrejs Everitt Carlton 96
1 12 Melbourne James Frawley Hawthorn 139
1 13 Richmond Jack Riewoldt Richmond 157
1 14 Adelaide James Sellar 44
1 15 Sydney Daniel O'Keefe 0
1 16 West Coast Mitchell Brown West Coast 89
17 Priority Carlton Shaun Hampson Richmond 74
18 Priority Essendon Leroy Jetta 93
2 19 Carlton Shaun Grigg Richmond 124
2 20 Essendon Tom Hislop 27
2 21 North Melbourne Gavin Urquhart 41
2 22 Brisbane Albert Proud 29
2 23 Port Adelaide Paul Stewart Port Adelaide 81
2 24 Hawthorn Brent Renouf 68
2 25 Geelong Nathan Djerrkura 25
2 26 Richmond Shane Edwards Richmond 152
2 27 St Kilda Brad Howard 2
2 28 Collingwood Chris Dawes Melbourne 101
2 29 West Coast Eric MacKenzie West Coast 121
2 30 Melbourne Ricky Petterd Richmond 83

2007 National Draft
Round Pick Drafted By Player Current Team Games Since Drafted
1 Priority Carlton Matthew Kreuzer Carlton 106
1 2 Richmond Trent Cotchin Richmond 131
1 3 West Coast Chris Masten West Coast 118
1 4 Melbourne Cale Morton 76
1 5 Western Bulldogs Jarrad Grant Western Bulldogs 62
1 6 Essendon David Myers Essendon 83
1 7 Fremantle Rhys Palmer GWS 96
1 8 Brisbane Lachlan Henderson Carlton 101
1 9 St Kilda Ben McEvoy Hawthorn 104
1 10 Adelaide Patrick Dangerfield Adelaide 131
1 11 Sydney Patrick Veszpremi 23
1 12 Hawthorn Cyril Rioli Hawthorn 133
1 13 West Coast Brad Ebert Port Adelaide 147
1 14 Melbourne Jack Grimes Melbourne 86
1 15 North Melbourne Robbie Tarrant North Melbourne 39
1 16 Port Adelaide Matthew Lobbe Port Adelaide 67
1 17 Geelong Harry Taylor Geelong 159
18 Priority Richmond Alex Rance Richmond 107
2 19 Western Bulldogs Callan Ward GWS 121
2 20 West Coast Tony Notte 2
2 21 Melbourne Addam Maric 31
2 22 West Coast Scott Selwood West Coast 122
2 23 Essendon Tayte Pears Essendon 68
2 24 Fremantle Clayton Hinkley 22
2 25 Brisbane Tom Collier 27
2 26 Sydney Brett Meredith 16
2 27 Adelaide Andy Otten Adelaide 79
2 28 Port Adelaide Marlon Motlop 5
2 29 Hawthorn Brendan Whitecross Hawthorn 84
2 30 Adelaide Jarrhan Jacky 3

 

[footyfan1978]

Looking at drafts 2005 and 2006 that are long enough past to make a call on the overall value of picks. Have a look at pick 7 of each draft. Joel Selwood in one year and Patrick Ryder the next. Both taken at pick 7.
Pick 19 only gets you a Shaun Grigg or Courtney Dempsey.

Lets hope our willingness to trade pick 7 of 2014 and drop to pick 19 to get Jaksch and Whiley is worth it in the long run. GWS took Paul Ahern at pick 7. We took Boekhurst at pick 19.
I hope Jaksch turn into a fully fledged star in long term and at least one of Whiley or Boekhurst prove to be very good players that play over 100 games.

 

[Sheephead]

Who else did we pick in 07?

 

[footyfan1978]

Who else did we pick in 07?

Steven Browne pick 36 and Dennis Armfield pick 46. We passed on pick 65.

I think this was also the year we traded Eagles picks 3 and 20 plus twinkle toes Josh Kennedy for someone called Chris Judd and pick 46 too.

We also picked Aaron Joseph and David Ellard from rookie draft that played some games for us in seniors eventually.

 

[footyfan1978]

Should be noted in 2007 at pick 3 Chris Masten was taken by Eagles for the early pick we gave up as part of Judd.
Should also be noted Dangerfield and Rioli were some of the talent in draft pool we could have grabbed with pick 3 in that draft had we had our eyes on them. So in essence we could be seen to have given up Josh Kennedy and Dangerfield for Judd. Or you could look at it like giving up Kennedy and Masten and pick 20 for Judd and Armfield. We picked up Armfield with the late pick Eagles gave us as part of getting deal done.

Always interesting to look back upon many years after trades been done

 

[LemmingMaster]

I honestly think that our recruiting this year is more worthy of a B or a B+. I havent said it was worthy of an A.
.

You give it a B or B+, our recruitment team give it an A, Pelchan gives it a C....

Many people will have different thoughts on how the draft worked out.

Time will shed some more light on the whole draft.

 

[Sheephead]

Should be noted in 2007 at pick 3 Chris Masten was taken by Eagles for the early pick we gave up as part of Judd.
Should also be noted Dangerfield and Rioli were some of the talent in draft pool we could have grabbed with pick 3 in that draft had we had our eyes on them. So in essence we could be seen to have given up Josh Kennedy and Dangerfield for Judd. Or you could look at it like giving up Kennedy and Masten and pick 20 for Judd and Armfield. We picked up Armfield with the late pick Eagles gave us as part of getting deal done.

Always interesting to look back upon many years after trades been done

Whichever way you wanna look at it, we traded change for one of the best ever. All this what if mentality is futile IMO. We got Chris Judd. He is a superstar. He starred for us and bought many years of wealth to CFC. We win that trade everyday.

 

[footyfan1978]

Whichever way you wanna look at it, we traded change for one of the best ever. All this what if mentality is futile IMO. We got Chris Judd. He is a superstar. He starred for us and bought many years of wealth to CFC. We win that trade everyday.

I never wrote what if.
I simply showed the other options.
None of us actually know what would have happened.
All we know to this point is we are have no wealth of premierships added in 20 seasons. We need to get better at how we trade and draft. Hopefully we are doing it better as a club. Only premierships will show we have truly returned to football wealth rather than in the wilderness.

 

[GoBlues!]

Looking at drafts 2005 and 2006 that are long enough past to make a call on the overall value of picks. Have a look at pick 7 of each draft. Joel Selwood in one years and Patrick Ryder the next. Both taken at pick 7.
Pick 19 only gets you a Shaun Grigg or Courtney Dempsey.

Have a look at 2007, Pick 7 would have got you a Rhys Palmer. Whereas, Dangerfield (10) and Rioli (12) get over looked. Even at pick 17, Geelong went for some mature age bloke called Harry Taylor who got passed over by 16 teams.

What does it all mean? Having pick 7 doesn't guarantee you'll pick a winner any more/less than having a pick 10, 12 or 17.

 

[footyfan1978]

Have a look at 2007, Pick 7 would have got you a Rhys Palmer. Whereas, Dangerfield (10) and Rioli (12) get over looked. Even at pick 17, Geelong went for some mature age bloke called Harry Taylor who got passed over by 16 teams.

What does it all mean? Having pick 7 doesn't guarantee you'll pick a winner any more/less than having a pick 10, 12 or 17.

Absolutely. However it is interesting to see what you could pick when you look back. You can only hope at the time you do trades and draft you got the best feel for what is on offer in terms of talent overall. The reality is that in each draft there is nearly a third of top 30 picks that end up not being long term good players. You hope you get the best value of your picks and when you trade them you realize the value of each pick. Pick 7 should be valued as a recruiter expecting to draft a gun or close to a gun. He certainly should not be thinking, oh well it will probably be average player. Drafting and trading need to be done as if you expect you can be better than other clubs at it. Least I hope that is the mindset change at Carlton. I suspect the thinking on Jaksch was he was worth getting over pick 7.Lets hope it works out. I'd hate to thnk we missed on a Selwood type if it does not,