2014 forward line - mids moving forward

[Bombers36]

It seems there is a school of thought that our forward line in 2014 is not very good - rubbish if you ask some opposition supporters....
I dont agree. i think our forward line will set up something like;-


Chapman Hurley Zakka
Goddard/Watson TBC Winders

And when you break it down and look at the players stats it looks pretty damn good!

Hurley & Chapman clearly the keys - averaging 1.3 goals a game and both capable of winning big games off their own boot.
Winderlich has proven how dangerous he can be in front of the big sticks, with a 0.6 goal average over his career, but a 1.5 average over the last 3 seasons when played as a forward!
Then you have Goddard & Watson - both champions of the game who average half a goal a game mainly playing midfield. i think both will spend more time forward this year and those averages will increase
Tom Bellchambers is a colossus who averages nearly a goal a game and will be ably backed up by Ryder & Daniher
Zaka the other forward who can boast his goal average also if he spends more time forward

I guess what im trying to say is we have many midfield types who are more than capable of hitting the scoreboard - Winders, Chappy, Watson, Goddard, Zaka, Melksham
If these guys spend more time up forward - which they will have to, and the likes of Myers, Heppell, Hocking, Howlett take up the midfield slack, then we have a forward line more than capable of testing most opposition side in 2014

Averages
Goals, Tackles, Disposals, Marks, AFL Games, Height

Chapman 1.3, 3.5, 20, 4.7, 251, 179
Hurley 1.3, 1, 14.4, 5.3, 79, 195
Zaka 0.8, 3.1, 19.5, 4.1, 87, 185
Goddard 0.5, 2.8, 21.8, 6.2, 227, 189
Watson 0.5, 3.7, 24.5, 4, 173, 191
TBC 0.8, 1.4, 10, 4, 61, 202
Winderlich 0.6*, 2.9, 16, 5.4, 112, 188 *1.5 over last 3 seasons

Others
Ryder 0.7, 3.1, 11.5, 4.2, 149, 197
Daniher 0.6, 0.6, 12.2, 5.4, 5, 201
Melksham 0.5, 2.8, 16.6, 4, 80, 186

 

[tazzawazza]

Here's mine:

Chapman Hurley/Carslile Zahakarakis
Goddard Daniher Jetta

Doesn't look that bad. I reckon one of Hurley or Carslile in the forward line, and one as half back. I don't really like Hurley as a forward, like him better as a defender, but Carslile is a better defender and forward than Hurley. Daniher will need a lot of support but I'm really keen to see how he goes. It isn't that bad, the midfield looks excellent and so does the defence in my opinion, you can't be perfect all over the ground.

Maybe convert someone into a forward? Winderlich or Melksham maybe?? Pears?

 

[Bombers36]

Here's mine:

Chapman Hurley/Carslile Zahakarakis
Goddard Daniher Jetta

Doesn't look that bad. I reckon one of Hurley or Carslile in the forward line, and one as half back. I don't really like Hurley as a forward, like him better as a defender, but Carslile is a better defender and forward than Hurley. Daniher will need a lot of support but I'm really keen to see how he goes. It isn't that bad, the midfield looks excellent and so does the defence in my opinion, you can't be perfect all over the ground.

Maybe convert someone into a forward? Winderlich or Melksham maybe?? Pears?

I like your thinking tazzawazza (and the name!).
We will definitely need to build the forward line around our CHF Hurley (or Carlisle), and ultimately I want to see Daniher at FF permanently but not sure he'll get the gig straight away and TBC & Ryder more than capable of playing there.
I like the idea of a Goddard or Watson resting in a pocket - always going to worry opposition coaches...
Jetta is the interesting one - his best is great but we dont see it often enough, so at this stage Winderlich in the other pocket for me, Jetta, Colyer, Kommer the other back up small forwards...
You might be onto something trying Pears up forward - anyone know if hes ever been played up forward previously...??

 

[tazzawazza]

I like your thinking tazzawazza (and the name!).
We will definitely need to build the forward line around our CHF Hurley (or Carlisle), and ultimately I want to see Daniher at FF permanently but not sure he'll get the gig straight away and TBC & Ryder more than capable of playing there.
I like the idea of a Goddard or Watson resting in a pocket - always going to worry opposition coaches...
Jetta is the interesting one - his best is great but we dont see it often enough, so at this stage Winderlich in the other pocket for me, Jetta, Colyer, Kommer the other back up small forwards...
You might be onto something trying Pears up forward - anyone know if hes ever been played up forward previously...??

Yeah that sounds pretty good, Colyer is much better than Jetta. You guys have a really big depth in defence, and it wouldn't hurt to sacrifice Pears and turning him into a forward. Daniher will need to be maintained, all the great power forwards (JBrown,Cloke,Buddy) only averaged barely a goal a game in their first two seasons. So I don't think Daniher will be that 5-6 goal kicking forward until another 2 years, and he is only young, he will need to be maintained. So that's why I think it is essential for another big forward in the forward line. Pears is 192 cm, 95 kg... Could work out!

 

[Yoda_]

Stats can be misleading. Would love to know how many of those tackles have been laid inside the forward 50?

 

[Bombers36]

Stats can be misleading. Would love to know how many of those tackles have been laid inside the forward 50?

Good point Yoda. Chapman & Melksham strike me as the two who would be good at tackling in the forward 50, but I dont think any of the other smaller/mid sized guys would be 'bad' tacklers....The big fellas always seem to struggle in this department though, but tackling isn't really what they are there for....

 

[Yoda_]

Good point Yoda. Chapman & Melksham strike me as the two who would be good at tackling in the forward 50, but I dont think any of the other smaller/mid sized guys would be 'bad' tacklers....The big fellas always seem to struggle in this department though, but tackling isn't really what they are there for....

Was more pointing out the stats the OP pointed out were overall stats and not area specific.

Doubt the majority of Jobe's 3.7 tackles were in the forward 50.

 

[rines]

I think Watson showed that he can be damaging up forward.. I think we also got a glimpse of where Jobe could finish the last two years of his career.. cruising the forward 50!!! Has a good mark and his kicking has improved..

 

[Yoda_]

I think Watson showed that he can be damaging up forward.. I think we also got a glimpse of where Jobe could finish the last two years of his career.. cruising the forward 50!!! Has a good mark and his kicking has improved..

Stew Crameri Mk II??

 

[Bombers36]

Like most great mids players like Ablett, & Watson almost certainly will spend more and more time in the forward line later in their careers. With their strengththey are very hard to move out of position when the ball is in flight, and can bustle opponents under the ball - ala Crameri. His old man - Tim - was pretty good at this too - in his comeback year 93 he kicked 26 goals from just 16 games playing that mid-forward type role. No reason Jobe couldn't do something similar fro smaller periods next year, then more often as his career progresses.

 

[BrunoV]

where does this zaharakis forward nonsense come from? he is our only ball carrying/line breaking midfielder that is close to being proven.

he's midfielder number 2 behind watson only (goddard will be more a utility).

 

[Bombers36]

where does this zaharakis forward nonsense come from? he is our only ball carrying/line breaking midfielder that is close to being proven.

he's midfielder number 2 behind watson only (goddard will be more a utility).

Agree BrunoV - Zaka is a great ball carrying/line breaking midfielder, but him, like a few of our other mids are going to have to spend more time forward given we've lost our leading goal kicker from the last 3 years in Crameri, plus Davey + Hille + Daniher (or Hurley for that matter) cant be relied upon every week to kick a bag. In order for us to kick decent socres each week our mids - Watson, Goddard & Zaka are going to have to spend more time forward

 

[astrowizzle]

Agree BrunoV - Zaka is a great ball carrying/line breaking midfielder, but him, like a few of our other mids are going to have to spend more time forward given we've lost our leading goal kicker from the last 3 years in Crameri, plus Davey + Hille + Daniher (or Hurley for that matter) cant be relied upon every week to kick a bag. In order for us to kick decent socres each week our mids - Watson, Goddard & Zaka are going to have to spend more time forward

I like zaka playing the mid role and drifting into the forward line as the pill goes that way. However he is a really useful player sitting out around the 60m mark and punching goals in from 50-55 m. he is a beautiful kick of the ball over that distance

 

[Jade]

Stew Crameri Mk II??

Not as quick, but a far superior player.

Watson will be a damn good forward for his last few years.

 

[Zach Package]

Maybe convert someone into a forward? Winderlich or Melksham maybe?? Pears?

Winderlich is already pretty much a permanent forward, and probably our most natural forward on the lead.

I'd put my house on a 40+ goal season if he could ever play 22 games

 

[BrunoV]

Agree BrunoV - Zaka is a great ball carrying/line breaking midfielder, but him, like a few of our other mids are going to have to spend more time forward given we've lost our leading goal kicker from the last 3 years in Crameri, plus Davey + Hille + Daniher (or Hurley for that matter) cant be relied upon every week to kick a bag. In order for us to kick decent socres each week our mids - Watson, Goddard & Zaka are going to have to spend more time forward

I'd also focus on replacing Crameri's structural contribution. We need his mobility and the half forward target.

Chapman will help. I still think Goddard is not just the best fit but that he would be even more valuable to the team if he is getting 70 to 80% of ball in forward half ( just think he is wasted in congestion or at half back).

 

[TD_B52]

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-01-06/depth-evident-to-bassett

Bassett stating carlise is working with the forward group

 

[jsd09]

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-01-06/depth-evident-to-bassett

Bassett stating carlise is working with the forward group

Personally I'm still undecided if this is the best thing for the team, Carlisle like Hurley looks a natural defender I really hope the original hype of Hurley is justified this season with him going down back again, just have to hope Hurley's output as a defender is as good as Carlisle in 2013 and Carlisle as a FWD is multiple times better then Hurley.

I'm torn.

 

[rines]

Looks like bomber wants Carlisle Forward and Hurley Back..

Only time will tell.. realistically both of them should be back.. but we need a CHF..

I liked the look of Carlisle forward for some short snippets.. and can't count some of the games because he was injured..

Realistically I think the coaching group had decided to try swapping Carlisle and Hurley around Rnd 16 in 2013.. but injury and the 'saga' sort of put an end to that..

Perhaps they want to train both of them up to play either end.. and then it will be truly interchangeable where they play.. and depend on form/match up week by week

 

[Keystone agony]

where does this zaharakis forward nonsense come from? he is our only ball carrying/line breaking midfielder that is close to being proven.

he's midfielder number 2 behind watson only (goddard will be more a utility).

Probably because hes the only player on our list to have kicked over 30 goals in a season wearing red and black

And the other being he won a B&F when predominantly half forward

 

[rines]

Probably because hes the only player on our list to have kicked over 30 goals in a season wearing red and black

And the other being he won a B&F when predominantly half forward

spot on..

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Right, but his potential as a midfielder offers even more.

 

[BrunoV]

When did a small forward become more important to a side than its sole line breaking midfielder?

The issues with the forward line have almost nothing to do with the small forwards and everything to do with the movement of the key forwards, midfield ball movement and pressing too high up the ground with smalls not getting back into position to help lock the ball back into our half of the ground (this last point is structural and not about personnel).

I can see that we are trying to strike a middle ground between all out defence and attack and that the forward line has generally been sacrificed so that we can defend. We'll probably achieve the desired balance with greater experience and the fitness to work hard both ways.

We're blowing out our brains to spite our face if we think getting Zaharakis out of the midfield, even if it is to help fix the forward line, is a good idea.

 

[Eleven 38]

the problem of deciding whether to play Hurley or Carlisle forward is a much better problem than having a bunch of shit KPP's

 

[Nasty Penguin]

I think there are two deciding factors in the Hurls v Buckets debate and they are:
Who replaces takes over from Fletcher?
Will JD be able to hold his own in 2014?
Realistically we'll look for another KPF in the next draft to complement Joe and play both back Hurls and Jake back but until our forward line structure/line-up improves one will be forward. And if it doesn't disrupt either players development I'm all for whatever they decide.
Gee we had it easy in the Lloyd/Lucas days lol