D1 2016 discussion

[bedford]

The main reason Banyule left the VAFA was due to the fact that our young kids were being taken from our under 17s to neighbouring clubs. They didn't want to travel to peninsula, tarneit, Williamstown, etc
Our club has had a complete transformation with 33 under 19s to pick from on the weekend and not one under 19 leaving to go to another club.
We are not paying huge money, however, each player who plays seniors will get a small amount - eg $50 - $70.
We had 700 at our first home game on Saturday and had at least 150 from the junior club.
It took 2 years of hard work from the committee to make the move but I believe it has been the best decision in relation to the community and retention of our juniors.
I know Bulleen Temp have thought about moving, the Ammos is becoming a predominately southern suburbs comp and I believe that in the long term district sides are in trouble as there are too many variables that are available to our youth - proximatey, money, etc

What a pathetic give up attitude, have a look at the travel its all 1 way this year

 

[The Touring Pro]

What a pathetic give up attitude, have a look at the travel its all 1 way this year

Interesting take on this Bedford. If we didn't move we had no committee and no club, so if that is a give up attitude then at least I've still got a club to go to. Being in the south you have no idea how hard it is for Northern suburbs club.

 

[VAFA Spectator]

Interesting take on this Bedford. If we didn't move we had no committee and no club, so if that is a give up attitude then at least I've still got a club to go to. Being in the south you have no idea how hard it is for Northern suburbs club.

I don't honestly think Banyule face any greater challenges than any other Amo club. At least they have a strong junior club to support them and feed players through (I played all my junior footy there). They also have no APS Schools and only one AGSV school taking local players from them. Travel is part of footy. My kid played juniors with the EFL and had to travel from Mt Waverley to Lilydale. If you change clubs because you don't want to drive from Banyule to Williamstown once in the season then there's a loyalty problem. Ivanhoe, BT, Latrobe and OP all have teams in Colts this year and are all within a short drive from Banyule.

 

[rocketman37]

Ben Phibbs has never played for nothing

That's a massive statement considering he turned down SKOB's this year to stay at Mazenod.
If you're saying things like that you'd want to be able to back it up.
He may work at the school but definitely won't be being paid.

Also - on the district clubs leaving the VAFA, Hampton Rovers have given themselves the best chance to succeed because they've invested in their juniors and allowed them to succeed by being one club. Very similar to Rowville in the EFL most of their talent comes within and they back that they have the culture to keep players once they come to the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rooster 24]

I don't honestly think Banyule face any greater challenges than any other Amo club. At least they have a strong junior club to support them and feed players through (I played all my junior footy there). They also have no APS Schools and only one AGSV school taking local players from them. Travel is part of footy. My kid played juniors with the EFL and had to travel from Mt Waverley to Lilydale. If you change clubs because you don't want to drive from Banyule to Williamstown once in the season then there's a loyalty problem. Ivanhoe, BT, Latrobe and OP all have teams in Colts this year and are all within a short drive from Banyule.

It is impossible to do a “like for like” comparison” across all clubs. There are many factors to be considered including geography, demographic, travel, access to junior feeders, proximity to other clubs (school, uni or suburban-based) and other competitions. On any measure Banyule certainly had more impediments and challenges than most VAFA clubs and even the most one eyed VAFA supporter would have to concede that taking into account all the circumstances they did what was best for them. Just down the road Parkside made the exact opposite decision based on what was right for their club so there is not right or wrong here.

However on the flip side it might be a tad early for Banyule to declare it a success on the back of 700 people attending their first NFL game. Remember it was round 1, a new beginning, playing a local derby against a club based directly across the road on a perfect April day.

 

[VAFA Spectator]

I agree Rooster you can't make a "like for like" comparison and I do hope that this is the best move for Banyule, but I am not sure that they faced any unique challenges. SMS have been unable to field any "unders" team this year despite taking out an under 19 flag 2 years ago, this due to the challenge of not having a junior feeder club.

Is it too early in the week for this weeks predictions?

Old Geelong v Old Mentonians
Ormond v Yarra Valley
St Mary's v NOBS/St Pats
Bulleen Templestowe v Whitefriars
Kew v Prahran

 

[Rooster 24]

I agree Rooster you can't make a "like for like" comparison and I do hope that this is the best move for Banyule, but I am not sure that they faced any unique challenges. SMS have been unable to field any "unders" team this year despite taking out an under 19 flag 2 years ago, this due to the challenge of not having a junior feeder club.

That’s very disappointing for SMS. They have had a good relationship with Ashy Redbacks and while not a direct affiliate there was obviously some strong links. Has that fallen by the way side or is just that last years crop of Ashy Colts were primarily private school kids who went to Old Boys clubs? Hopefully its just a one-year hiatus.

 

[VAFA Spectator]

That’s very disappointing for SMS. They have had a good relationship with Ashy Redbacks and while not a direct affiliate there was obviously some strong links. Has that fallen by the way side or is just that last years crop of Ashy Colts were primarily private school kids who went to Old Boys clubs? Hopefully its just a one-year hiatus.

I am not close enough to either of the two clubs to know exactly the reason, but I think you are correct that many went to their Old Boys Clubs. They had a big group go across from Ashy a few years ago which accounted for the core of the 2013 U19 premiership team. I think the connection is still there, but in that year Damian Sutherland, the Ashy Colts coach then went to SMS. I think he was a past SMS player. One would hope that clubs without their own junior feeder would seek closer relationships with local junior clubs with no senior side. I don't think SMS have had a boy from Salesian College join them for some years, despite carrying the name. I reckon that's one relationship they need to work on.

Predictions for the weekend?

 

[clutchtime]

They had a big group go across from Ashy a few years ago which accounted for the core of the 2013 U19 premiership team. I think the connection is still there, but in that year Damian Sutherland, the Ashy Colts coach then went to SMS. I think he was a past SMS player. One would hope that clubs without their own junior feeder would seek closer relationships with local junior clubs with no senior side. I don't think SMS have had a boy from Salesian College join them for some years, despite carrying the name. I reckon that's one relationship they need to work on.

The significant issue clubs in the South East Area have with feeder junior clubs is year 12 in schooling. Yarra Junior Football League finishes at under 17 where most kids take the year off footy or only play in the school competition, therefore, making it hard for clubs such as Kew or SMS to bring them back into the fold. For an effective junior club feeder system to work it requires a former coach of juniors to bring down players to the club, as you referred to Damian Sutherland. In relation to SMS and Salesian College the club has struggled to derive young players due to few students at the school actually playing football, demonstrated by the school team struggling in division 2 of the ACC competition. As an outsider I would of thought St Mary's might consider breaking their ties with Salesian and re-brand itself as a local club, rather than an old boys, due to the relationship with Salesian not being too prosperous on the surface.

Tips
OG
Ormond
NOBS
WF
Kew

 

[bedford]

Its like MHSOB no one playing footy

 

[uglydermie]

Uglydermie, how are BT coping in recent years? Numbers? Can you see getting back to the lofty heights of decades past?

It’s going to take a truck load of bloody hard work to get the club back to the "lofty heights". Last time we played in B grade was 1996. A grade was 1987. Not sure there would be many bigfooty forum users even born back then....
Like all the other clubs mentioned in this thread, we have struggled to move with the times and continue to rely too heavily on too few (both on and off the park). I can list pages of excuses (we have done plenty of reviews) but simply we need to work harder to make the club a better place so kids will be attracted to come and play - and stay for longer periods of time.
Some might argue, but our facilities are now pretty good (brand new social rooms and club house) and the ground holds up ok. I like what Hampton Rovers have been able to do over the past 3 years (Uncle Mick might send me the PowerPoint doc) and Beaumaris over a longer period have gone from D to A.
One things for sure, Ammo footy is where we want to be and we will never deviate from that. Whilst it is frustrating to be constantly seeing kids tempted by $$ - I am a firm believer that it would become irrelevant if they were 100% engaged and happy at their club.

 

[bedford]

Hopefully FV bringing in the points system will help and I hope its in the VAFA as well. That would put a club like SKOBS having to not be able to do what they are atm

 

[bedford]

Round 1 tips
4 AMMOFOOTBALL
3 RICHO
3 RETIRED
3 BLACKWHITE
3 THEONE
3 BEDFORD
2 HEDGEFUND
2 AM

 

[sidewinder]

Round 2.
Old Geelong
Ormond
St Marys Selesian
Whitefriars
Kew

 

[FWIW]

Hopefully FV bringing in the points system will help and I hope its in the VAFA as well. That would put a club like SKOBS having to not be able to do what they are atm

FWIW what have they done wrong? Been proactive and attracted a few new players? They have only won Rd1

 

[Rooster 24]

It’s going to take a truck load of bloody hard work to get the club back to the "lofty heights". Last time we played in B grade was 1996. A grade was 1987. Not sure there would be many bigfooty forum users even born back then....
Like all the other clubs mentioned in this thread, we have struggled to move with the times and continue to rely too heavily on too few (both on and off the park). I can list pages of excuses (we have done plenty of reviews) but simply we need to work harder to make the club a better place so kids will be attracted to come and play - and stay for longer periods of time.
Some might argue, but our facilities are now pretty good (brand new social rooms and club house) and the ground holds up ok. I like what Hampton Rovers have been able to do over the past 3 years (Uncle Mick might send me the PowerPoint doc) and Beaumaris over a longer period have gone from D to A.
One things for sure, Ammo footy is where we want to be and we will never deviate from that. Whilst it is frustrating to be constantly seeing kids tempted by $$ - I am a firm believer that it would become irrelevant if they were 100% engaged and happy at their club.

I am old enough to remember BT in 'A' grade. And Kew, Ormond, NOBS, Parade, Therry and plenty of others who are now in the middle to lower reaches. It is certainly getting harder and harder to climb the ranks and then harder again to stay there.

Beaumaris and Hampton Rovers have 2 of the biggest junior programs in the state, well in excess of 20 junior teams last time I looked so that’s bloody good start. Not just as a feeder to the seniors but the kids parents are a potential source of supporters, volunteers’ sponsors etc for the future. Naturally you need to get the other things right, but if you do the framework of a strong club is right at your fingertips. Clearly Beauy and the Rovers have done this very well.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Hopefully FV bringing in the points system will help and I hope its in the VAFA as well. That would put a club like SKOBS having to not be able to do what they are atm

What, recruit people who want to play with their mates for NOTHING? Points in an association where no one gets paid? How would that work?
Not allow good people at our club who are looking for graduates to employ them instead of someone they don't know from SEEK?

The answer Bedford is clubs need to get better, and SKOB has had 10 years building to get to this point. We have had shitty facilities we have played at, players who have captained Old Xavs to premierships, played in flags at St Bernard's and been All Australians at De La.

Why? Because we were in the lower grades and of the VAFA. We now have 6 teams that played on the weekend, a great facility in Glen Iris, a school that has no less than 22 football teams playing each weekend in the senior school alone.

Next year we will get half of the 15 blokes playing VFL this year back, under your 'points' system you would be denying them the opportunity to play with their mates.

Will never happen.

 

[willie_bee21]

Old Geelong v Old Mentonians
Ormond v Yarra Valley
St Mary's v NOBS/St Pats
Bulleen Templestowe v Whitefriars
Kew v Prahran

St Mary's win this one and you've got a serious contender in the midst. I think we've potentially got 5 games that will be quite close this weekend. I don't see Yarra Valley as a side that is 90 points worse than St Mary's and I think they'll match up reasonably well with Ormond. They get flogged and it is fair to assume that they are in for a very long season.

 

[clutchtime]

What, recruit people who want to play with their mates for NOTHING? Points in an association where no one gets paid? How would that work?
Not allow good people at our club who are looking for graduates to employ them instead of someone they don't know from SEEK?

All clubs in Premier B and above thrive due to having a strong board and admins and St Kevins will prove to be a testament to that this season. Brian your correct that there shouldn't be a points system in VAFA as it will stop clubs thinking outside the box to draw players to their clubs. Clubs across the VAFA have drawn success from an array of non-traditional policies that have brought players to clubs, i.e recruiting players for disadvantage communities. However, the VAFA is and will still be confronted by the issue that big clubs will only get bigger and stronger eg. St Bernards having 3 teams in the under 19s field. Growing and developing players is the aspiration of every club, however, I think the VAFA will agree its not beneficial for the competition for a few clubs having a monopoly over a new of competitions. I've heard the concept of capping a number of sides a club can field - i.e 4 senior teams and 4 juniors, but I don't think this will be the solution as it'll result in disenfranchising players who want to play with mates. Perhaps it's the harsh reality that no club can reach premier B without having a combination of a school/junior feeder system.

 

[bedford]

What, recruit people who want to play with their mates for NOTHING? Points in an association where no one gets paid? How would that work?
Not allow good people at our club who are looking for graduates to employ them instead of someone they don't know from SEEK?

The answer Bedford is clubs need to get better, and SKOB has had 10 years building to get to this point. We have had shitty facilities we have played at, players who have captained Old Xavs to premierships, played in flags at St Bernard's and been All Australians at De La.

Why? Because we were in the lower grades and of the VAFA. We now have 6 teams that played on the weekend, a great facility in Glen Iris, a school that has no less than 22 football teams playing each weekend in the senior school alone.

Next year we will get half of the 15 blokes playing VFL this year back, under your 'points' system you would be denying them the opportunity to play with their mates.

Will never happen.

Took the bait mate. With the points players coming home would have reduced points, say 2 points instead of 8 if they're returning to their original club.

 

[AM]

Took the bait mate. With the points players coming home would have reduced points, say 2 points instead of 8 if they're returning to their original club.

Been looking at the MPNFL points system have we buddy? My informants tell me amongst the more powerful clubs it's honored more in the breach than the observance.

Hasn't really had a huge impact on evening up the comps either.

 

[bedford]

No I haven't looked at theirs , got my own thoughts

 

[Richo!]

What, recruit people who want to play with their mates for NOTHING? Points in an association where no one gets paid? How would that work?
Not allow good people at our club who are looking for graduates to employ them instead of someone they don't know from SEEK?

The answer Bedford is clubs need to get better, and SKOB has had 10 years building to get to this point. We have had shitty facilities we have played at, players who have captained Old Xavs to premierships, played in flags at St Bernard's and been All Australians at De La.

Why? Because we were in the lower grades and of the VAFA. We now have 6 teams that played on the weekend, a great facility in Glen Iris, a school that has no less than 22 football teams playing each weekend in the senior school alone.

Next year we will get half of the 15 blokes playing VFL this year back, under your 'points' system you would be denying them the opportunity to play with their mates.

Will never happen.

Easy for you tell clubs to get 'better'. I know clubs like St Mary's and Kew have put in a lot of work over many years to get a strong feeder system going. As previously stated, Kew have one of the strongest juniors in the area (Kew Rovers & Comets) but after 16's the majority play school footy and then Old Boys. It may have taken a while for SKOB, but it helps when your affiliated school has one of the strongest footy teams in the APS that offers footy scholarships like there's no tomorrow

 

[Mounzer11]

I don't honestly think Banyule face any greater challenges than any other Amo club. At least they have a strong junior club to support them and feed players through (I played all my junior footy there). They also have no APS Schools and only one AGSV school taking local players from them. Travel is part of footy. My kid played juniors with the EFL and had to travel from Mt Waverley to Lilydale. If you change clubs because you don't want to drive from Banyule to Williamstown once in the season then there's a loyalty problem. Ivanhoe, BT, Latrobe and OP all have teams in Colts this year and are all within a short drive from Banyule.

I still can't get over the post where that says Banyule players are getting paid to play in Div 3 NFL......the world has officially gone mad!!!
Suburban clubs continue to pay average footballers and this is another prime example of it.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Easy for you tell clubs to get 'better'. I know clubs like St Mary's and Kew have put in a lot of work over many years to get a strong feeder system going. As previously stated, Kew have one of the strongest juniors in the area (Kew Rovers & Comets) but after 16's the majority play school footy and then Old Boys. It may have taken a while for SKOB, but it helps when your affiliated school has one of the strongest footy teams in the APS that offers footy scholarships like there's no tomorrow

Ignorant comment, SKC do not give out scholarships for footy, if they did they wouldn't lose a game. They don't give a stuff about sport, it's all about academia. Success breeds success, that's why all of the Bulldogs players and Xavier and De La old boys send their kids to the school now, if they were giving out footy scholarships the Old Boys wouldn't see those kids anyway, they'd be at VFL or AFL level.

As far as St Mary's go, they thrive on the kids from St Kevins who don't want to play Premier B, they are very happy taking the boys and giving them a game.