Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Coona Blues]

I meant if we do go for a KPP it'd likely be via a trade.
But that will be costly of course, and then there is a heavy rumour on Prestia.

We will have plenty of feelers out for an experienced/or possibly semi developed KPF, and getting a feel for the market for "young gun" midfielders (Prestia and the like), bearing in mind the push for 6 year free agency release would bring a number of players in to our reach over the next two or three seasons. We are short of trade currency, surely free agency is our avenue to experienced players. Bolton's Blues will soon become a "destination club" again.

To draft or to trade?

A handful of players will answer this question Plowman, Glass-McCasker, Charlie Curnow, McKay, Jaksch and perhaps Silvagni. The draftees don't have to make an impact in the AFL this season. They simply have to show that they are made of the "right stuff". If Plowman and Jaksch (add Gorringe and maybe Foster) can show us that they will be capable of holding down a key position next season, (and HM/CC thereafter) then surely it is draft, draft, draft.

We have sufficient "depth" players. We need a couple (or more) top end talents. We have traded for a solid framework, (barring a ready to go KPF) we acquired all we need. If we can get/keep Plowman on the park, and put some maturity in to KJ while fast tracking the kids, we have no need for stop gap key position players. It hasn't worked with Jones, and Gorringe not setting the world on fire as yet.

Top end players through the draft or free agency. Only way we should trade out our first pick is if we get a lower first rounder back and SOS can find us a gun in the teens.

 

[Coona Blues]

Next year might be the year to trade for a KPP who is coming out of contract. There are a number of good ones who could be available - Patton, Tomlinson and Wright.

Wright extended his contract by a year already.

 

[HBF]

Wright extended his contract by a year already.

So that will take him to the end of 2017.
Tomlinson and Patton also come out of contract next year.

 

[1981]

I think we are almost at a point where we need to get some true elite talent through the door.
Real elite elite talent is not easy to come by.
The only elite kids we know we have now are Weitering and Cripps.
You need about 6-8 + depth to be a good side. (oh and a good HC and ACs).

But I am torn between trading away the house for an elite kid.
Because we arguably need to keep stockpiling good kids as, I believe HBF alludes to.

But I have heard we are very much into Prestia (I heard he even agreed last year he would come), and he won't come cheap. Let's say we finish 17th and get Pick 2. We won't hand that over for Prestia. We'd need to trade to get another decent pick or two, and then bundle a package for Prestia. Or hold firm and offer 20 and nothing more. Maybe that is what he is worth anyhow? (I don't watch GC much, but what I have seen of him he is a very good player).

That's why I keep banging on about asking for a priority pick after our 2nd round pick, but, if we keep playing like we did last week we mightn't win less than 4 and that surely would blow our chances of getting a priority pick.

You see with SOS it is all about trading and wheelin and dealin.
Stockpile picks, then bundle and on-trade to get what he really wants.
But last year it was easy to get lot of chips at the table, whereas this year it'll be more difficult.
Levi and Everitt could be traded, for picks around 25-35?? What do peeps think their value is, as of today?

 

[Kramer1]

Already speculation about Patton...playing NEAFL despite Cameron being out. Market cooling. Thoughts?

Talk of being too immobile for the modern game and an old school KPF.

Not a great immediate pairing with Levi and likely not long term with McKay. Add in injury concerns and my initial thought is pass.

On the plus side an undoubted talent who may bounce back from injury and would likely pass the no dickheads policy.

 

[true blue19]

IMO our biggest need is a inside mid and a key forward, if we trade I would look at the crows Dear and Ellis-Yolmen or if we draft Powell-pepper and Blake

 

[gandaal]

Already speculation about Patton...playing NEAFL despite Cameron being out. Market cooling. Thoughts?

Talk of being too immobile for the modern game and an old school KPF.

Not a great immediate pairing with Levi and likely not long term with McKay. Add in injury concerns and my initial thought is pass.

On the plus side an undoubted talent who may bounce back from injury and would likely pass the no dickheads policy.

I actually see the opposite. A large gorilla forward is exactly the type of partner Levi needs. He needs someone to stay at home while he roams up the field.

I would be stoked to get Patton... For a early second rounder.

 

[1981]

Do we have an extra third round pick for 2016? Think we got one last year but did we already intrade it?

 

[1981]

I actually see the opposite. A large gorilla forward is exactly the type of partner Levi needs. He needs someone to stay at home while he roams up the field.

I would be stoked to get Patton... For a early second rounder.

Gorillas will always have a place, as long as he can kick !!!!!

 

[Coona Blues]

Do we have an extra third round pick for 2016? Think we got one last year but did we already intrade it?

We have the Western Bulldog's 3rd rounder....so will be a late one.
The bad news from a trade perspective is GWS have stockpiled Collingwood and Geelong's first and Adelaide's 2nd.
The Suns have Melbourne's first and three extra seconds.

Makes the possibility of trading for academy points a little more difficult.

 

[Jimmae]

Next year might be the year to trade for a KPP who is coming out of contract. There are a number of good ones who could be available - Patton, Tomlinson and Wright.

Aren't they about to drop the free agency requirements 2 years?

That would mean Patton and Tomlinson would be eligible for free agency when their contracts are up.

 

[blueboy25]

I actually see the opposite. A large gorilla forward is exactly the type of partner Levi needs. He needs someone to stay at home while he roams up the field.

I would be stoked to get Patton... For a early second rounder.

A gorilla with two knee recon's under his belt.

 

[gandaal]

A gorilla with two knee recon's under his belt.

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Coona Blues]

Aren't they about to drop the free agency requirements 2 years?

That would mean Patton and Tomlinson would be eligible for free agency when their contracts are up.

Plenty of talk of dropping it, the Player's Association wielding plenty of power these days. Could be plenty of top end talent becoming available for a club on the up, with salary space. I alluded to it above.

May also mean we can shake something loose earlier at a bargain price with the ongoing talk of dropping free agency compo as well. (would really change the landscape)

 

[Magruder]

I actually see the opposite. A large gorilla forward is exactly the type of partner Levi needs. He needs someone to stay at home while he roams up the field.

I would be stoked to get Patton... For a early second rounder.

Absolutely agree. At times over the last couple of years I have advocated playing Levi more as a mobile round the ground ruckman as it gets him involved in play, builds his confidence and sense of involvement.

Counter intuitively it might help with his kicking for goal as he may feel less pressure as he has other opportunities to contribute.

We also had Waite and Hendo, (who we seemed determine need to turn into forward).

A traditional and highly talented deep forward, like Patton, would allow Levi to play up the ground and to his strengths.

 

[LordLucifer]

You're really underselling him as merely a goalsneak. At this point in time, he's pretty much unanimously rated in the top 3 prospects of the entire draft. One would assume * will have the #1 pick (and maybe #2 as well). They're going to be desperately needing mids (and just about everything else). We've got Cripps, Gibbs, Kerridge, Graham, E & C Curnow who are all big bodied inside types. If Ainsworth is there at our pick, then we take him. Simple as that.

Best available. AND needs. We need to kick a winning score, and a gun crumbing forward that can run through the middle is exactly what we need.

Sorry, can't agree at all.

We will more than likely have a pick within the first three of a bumper draft, we will not be wasting it on a little fella no matter how good he is.

I have no doubt in my mind that we will looking to pick up the next Bontempelli, Cripps or Stringer, not the next Eddie Betts.

Besides, don't we already have Galluci at the club ??

 

[LordLucifer]

Not having a go at you specifically, but I'm sick of seeing this as an excuse to trade a good player. Just because they might not play in our next flag, doesn't mean they can't be vital in the development of the team during the build up.

And they could be taking a spot on our list which could be given to a promising draftee.

In 2-3 year's time, the veteran will retire and we will have to take on a raw newbie.

I'd rather have the promising draftee having 50-games under his belt by then and is ready to explode !!

 

[DangerousD]

whats everyones thoughts on the essendon 12 that are currently suspended? they're all able to be free agents if they want at the years end.

I've heard hooker is pretty much gone (to freo), and hurley is also disenchanted. he's someone of interest surely? potential suiters in melbourne for him would be richmond (but they've got their eyes set on prestia from reports) and hawks (eyes on Jaeger) and both don't really need another key backman with rance astbury and chaplin, and then hawks recently recruiting frawley on big coin.

we would have a fair bit of cap room now following the departures of judd, hendo, yarran and warnock (all on big money).

would we consider offering hurley a massive front ended contract? i.e. 1 mil for first 2 years, 500k after that? I know carlton wouldn't be that attractive a destination, but money talks and unless he wants to leave melbourne, surely we can make a pretty big pitch?

imagine a future of Hurley weitering plowman docherty byrne/buckley and tuohy? pretty sharp back six.

whats everyones thoughts?

this would potentially give essendon pick 1, 2 (hooker) and 3 (hurley) mind you

I dont think its a good idea to be going after a ready made chb on big money and offering up a very high pick. We went with mostly tall players last draft and feel we will target midfielders in this draft. If Prestia wasn't after huge money i would love a player like him and he fits our age profile.
I am not sure how the Essendon 12 will work out, i agree they will be able to leave but i think there will be some restrictions placed on them, like you can leave but have to be on the same money for the duration of your current deal (to avoid players just using their situation to cash in). There will be a chance down the track once we have built a strong side to go after a free agent of the likes of Hooker or Frawley rather than having to give up a lot to get.

 

[DangerousD]

Should carlton make another play for tom mitchell?

Why would he join us? Is on big money already at Sydney, plays every week and plays for a side that will contend for grand finals. We offer nothing.

 

[DangerousD]

Looking at our list closely, assuming certain highly rated kids develop and turn into good players (Plowman, Curnow, Cuningham, McKay, Byrne, Boekhorst etc), I foresee small forward as a major weakness on our list. Sumner has missed a lot of footy, and Lamb while he has endeavor just doesn’t seem like he will be a dominant small forward. And then there is Smith who is a fair way off it as well. Interesting then the no.1 pick this year could be a small forward (Ainsworth). If we finish last and take Ainsworth, it would mean we don’t take a mid or tall at 1. But I see Ainsworth as a small forward genius who could well develop into a mid, so a bit like Boomer Harvey. And, I actually have a sneaky suspicion Marc Murphy might play out his career in the forward line, in a few years’ time.

If Murphy is playing out his days in the fwd line then i see drafting a small forward with our first pick as being a waste. But if he is the best available player then why not. I am hoping they just pick the best player at what is likely to be pick 3 i think.

 

[DangerousD]

I was interested to see that Jon Patton didn't get picked to play for GWS on the weekend, even though Jeremy Cameron and McCarthy were both out. Seem he's fallen out of favour, despite kicking 5 goals in a game not long ago (not sure if it was was practise match, or a neafl match).

So if he can't get a game for gws, despite being in decent form and there no.1 & 2 forwards being out, one would suggest he may be available come seasons end. How would we feel about picking him up? Not sure what we'd have to give up to get him though. If the rumours of Everitt being unhappy are true, perhaps a straight swap would be in order? Would we need to give up more? 3rd round draft pick?

It was a suprise yes and if he isn't picked this week then it's a worry. The giants wont trade Patton unless they think he can't compete at AFL level, they will be forced to trade out McCarthy so will hold on to other key talls. I would like to pick him up even given his 3 knee recos but unsure on the price, if he has a good season the Giants will still command a top 25 pick, they wont go near Everitt.

 

[DangerousD]

Eh maybe but I don't want to be a laughing stock like melbourne have been.

We are a laughing stock and have been just as bad as Melbourne. Look at the number of times we have finished last in the past 15 years and look at our fantastic drafting record and our recruitment of players. We can't get any worse

 

[DangerousD]

Not having a go at you specifically, but I'm sick of seeing this as an excuse to trade a good player. Just because they might not play in our next flag, doesn't mean they can't be vital in the development of the team during the build up.

Therein lies the dilemma, what is worth more to the Carlton club and team? A draft pick or that players development. Im sure each will be weighed up and a decision made. I would like to see some aggressive trades but i know some don't agree. You dont have to be a star player to be a good leader or be a good developer so i believe you can get good experienced players in via the psd and trade out people with value. But only time will tell

 

[ShanDog]

Therein lies the dilemma, what is worth more to the Carlton club and team? A draft pick or that players development. Im sure each will be weighed up and a decision made. I would like to see some aggressive trades but i know some don't agree. You dont have to be a star player to be a good leader or be a good developer so i believe you can get good experienced players in via the psd and trade out people with value. But only time will tell

Not sure the PSD has really netted much value in quite a while.

 

[Blues90]

We are a laughing stock and have been just as bad as Melbourne. Look at the number of times we have finished last in the past 15 years and look at our fantastic drafting record and our recruitment of players. We can't get any worse

Difference is we nailed our first pick and have played finals a lot more than them