List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[Cochblocked]

I think the biggest positive so far is only losing Martin and Ah Chee. Must be the lowest for a few years. I think we still have a few things we're keeping quiet on. Don't think we heard about the Weller deal this early when that happened and Cameron did mention we are looking at a few more players. If this is it then it would be one of our least active years so i think we just have to wait to see what rumours pop up the next few days now we know our assistance package.

 

[Aramis]

Wow. Just wow. The entitlement is surreal, but expected...

Im not sure if you know what the word 'entitlement' means, I was merely stating general principles of business...

Why would anyone trade a known quantity for a speculative quantity hoping that it will be as good as what you already possess, let alone add more to the known quantity to get it.... Based on that logic... Anderson would have to be the reach the same level as Worpel (possible but realistically a complete unknown at time of writing) or better (somewhat unlikely).

 

[Suns Soldier]

Some nice highlights.

I love his basketball skills mixed with big bodied AFL characteristics.
Great mix! He reads and makes plays like a basketballer and tanks around like a mid. You tie up Greenwood, who in my eyes the Crows are filthy at. Then you pry Brad out as it looks like an infected apple to leave a player at a club after they have expressed interest elsewhere, besides, you can possibly get them cheaper when their intentions are public knowledge.

 

[thurls64]

isn't Isaac Smith our possible version of Luke Hodge light? I thought we were all in for a deal like this despite his age

Smith brings a lot of run and carry, leadership and experience and I think he has a lot of footy left in him

Be good to have someone on here that loves stats track his output for the last couple of seasons

 

[Suns Soldier]

Im not sure if you know what the word 'entitlement' means, I was merely stating general principles of business...

Why would anyone trade a known quantity for a speculative quantity hoping that it will be as good as what you already possess, let alone add more to the known quantity to get it.... Based on that logic... Anderson would have to be the reach the same level as Worpel (possible but realistically a complete unknown at time of writing) or better (somewhat unlikely).

Buddy, I fully comprehend the term “entitled” you have now earned the upgraded badge of “ignorant” to pin beside “entitled” keep going and I’ll hand you “arrogant”. Whilst we would consider Breust and Smith, no way in hell you slippery grubs will be getting anything above pick 15. Mark my words. Anderson will be a Sun.
Case closed, go back to bed and have some more lucid dreams.

 

[GcSunsfan]

isn't Isaac Smith our possible version of Luke Hodge light? I thought we were all in for a deal like this despite his age

Smith brings a lot of run and carry, leadership and experience and I think he has a lot of footy left in him

Be good to have someone on here that loves stats track his output for the last couple of seasons

Smith would be huge for us.

Here’s just some basic stats very consistent.
And he averages 475 meters gained 150 more then both Crouch brothers

 

[Aramis]

Buddy, I fully comprehend the term “entitled” you have now earned the upgraded badge of “ignorant” to pin beside “entitled” keep going and I’ll hand you “arrogant”. Whilst we would consider Breust and Smith, no way in hell you slippery grubs will be getting anything above pick 15. Mark my words. Anderson will be a Sun.
Case closed, go back to bed and have some more lucid dreams.

Lol you're hilarious, who knew there could be such big personalities supporting such a small club... I've been missing out.

 

[THE_GUN]

Be Careful , Mum needs that Cow

 

[OB11]

You really think we're going to get Greenwood for free? Some unbiased onlookers seem to think it would be an absolute steal if we could secure Greenwood for pick 56 but you're saying we should get him for free? I'm inclined to think Greenwood for pick 56 is a good deal for us but it seems more likely that the Crows will ask for something better and that's why I suggested just flipping the pick we receive from the Lions for Ah Chee and securing Greenwood early in the trade period to focus on others we could attain. That's just my opinion though.

56 is ok - that's almost free which is enough.

Lyons was a pick in the 40s and it was a fairly similar situation.

 

[gcsunsfc]

T

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't agree with the trade you outlined earlier.

The issue I see with all the Crouch talk is the team balance factor.

There are two main types of stoppage extractors. There are the "big-bodied", explosive midfielders (Cripps, Fyfe), and there are the slower, smaller types (Neale is a great example). The bigger bodied midfielders are obviously very much in favour at the moment, and this is particularly because of their versatility.

The bigger bodied mids tend to have the ability to rest forward more easily, as they are typically better marks. This contrasts with the smaller bodied midfielder, who doesn't have the height advantage for marking, and typically stays as a permanent on-baller.

Additionally, the bigger bodied midfielders tend to be able to not only win the ball, but clear the stoppage themselves. It's why players like Fyfe can catch the eye so much. Meanwhile, the smaller bodied midfielders tend to win the ball and feed it off to a player with that speed to clear the pack. It's why Neale can end up with 30 disposals despite not noticing him that much. Without that quick player to feed the ball off to, these players can have very little influence on the game, even with a big impact in terms of stats.

Now there are obviously some big boddied plodders who can't do anything except win the ball, and there are some smaller inside mids who are good above their head, lightning quick and can break clear of the pack. But I think for the most part, the types hold relatively well.

The Crouch brothers perfectly typify the smaller bodied mid that I outlined above (especially Matt). They don't have the height, weight or speed to "break the game open". They are very one-dimensional - but are very good at that aspect (much like Neale).

The fear I see with taking on two Crouch brothers is that the Suns have these smaller and medium sized midfielders in spades, but lack more of this outside pace and disposal. Sure, they might come on, push two players out of the side, and be your "two best" midfielders, but I don't think it really addresses the root of the problems the Suns have, and I don't think it will lead to a material change in the performance of the team.

We all saw the danger this year of becoming too one-dimensional with too many of these kinds of players. Just look at the performance of Adelaide. Coaches go into a game knowing that Crouch, Crouch and Sloane are going to be playing most of the game on the ball. The only other place these players can move is onto the bench. How does a coach adapt his game-plan when all his mids can do is sit on the ball? What's more, opposition coaches know their defensive line will have time to set up, as the ball will come in relatively slow or hurried - they don't have that speed to break through zones, nor the elite disposal to create opportunities.

Contrast this with Richmond. Martin provides exactly what I'm talking about. He has that speed and body strength. It allows him to completely break open a stoppage and create opportunities on his own. Look at round 23 against the Lions. He completely tore the game open with body strength and elite disposal. If things start going poorly, or if Dusty needs a rest, Richmond can choose to move him forward. This completely changes the game for the opposition coach, and can lead to chaos.

I can see the benefit in getting Brad Crouch to the Suns. He's a gun player and would be a good upgrade forcing out the last inside mid in the 22. Same argument goes for Matt. But together and you're risking building yourselves into a similar team to what the Crows are now.

Meanwhile, you discussed moving Luko out to make this happen. The thing is, Luko offers a tool that I would argue the Suns lack at the moment in his elite disposal. I think it would be crazy to push Luko out the door in order to double down on a skillset you have in abundance.

B Crouch is gettable, without costing you pick 1, 2 or Luko. A trade like Greenwood and Crouch for 2019 pick 15, 20 and 2020 pick 11 should make that happen. Crows get overs, while you guys maintain the goal of retaining your top picks and Luko. I would consider that a relatively win-win trade. If you can escape without having to use 2019 pick 20, all the better.

Look at players like Isaac Smith as well. Strong outside users who come from successful culture, who won't be too expensive in terms of draft currency and still have years to offer.

Back yourselves to retain Luko and King. Rowell and Anderson might be the circuit breakers. You guys are building a strong culture, and seem to be bringing in some fantastic characters. Get Crouch, keep Luko and King, bring Rowell and Anderson in, and win some games next year. Get out, bring your friends along, and support the guys through the transition, and make it impossible for them to refuse. This is the best possible opportunity to keep a player like Luko, with the Crows imploding and Port having some off-field financial issues, so back yourselves.

this 100% is what I believe.
Matador
Instead of spending the time to type this kind of response I just wrote “have you seen Matt crouch play?!?!”
Agree we’ve got enough capacity to trade decent picks that don’t compromise luko, king, 1,2.

I’d be happy to consider trading next years first - which may be number 1, if it let us grab someone who would really make a difference.

I think our recruiters are thinking more along the lines of the above post than your suggested trades.

 

[nutstar]

Crouch- It’s a load of crap

‘Load of crap’: Star’s SMS over trade storm

Adelaide star Brad Crouch has reportedly fired off a text message denying to have interest in dragging brother Matt Crouch to the Gold Coast Suns with him.

www.news.com.au

Only a load of crap to the mega trade of both of them, no denial about him on his own having some interest in coming

 

[SunnerSS]

I'm still skeptical on crouch joining us. "a lot of water to go under the bridge" doesn't fill me with confidence. but then again as we learnt last year if a players name has been brought up so regularly in the media it turns out to have something in it.

 

[gcsunsfc]

thurls64 - not a downer - I'd be keen on Isaac for 2+games trigger third season.

Don't know if this is symptomatic of Isaac or the Hawks as a poorer team this year, or no real key forwards to kick it to.
Clearly more meters gained, clearly more turnovers, and clearly less score involvements this year.
Says to me there was a bit of bombing away from the back half - quite a high number of turnovers I've got to say given the vast majority of his possessions are outside uncontested. Almost 1 in four times he get it, he turned it over. 5.3 per match.



Compared with some of our guys who are cornered as turnover merchants - Touk Miller 22 possessions, 4 TO. Harbrow 19 possessions, 3.4 TO. Bit ugly on that front.

In fact ranks in the top 15 in the competition for turnovers.



Strong suns flavour, current and ex, to this esteemed bunch.
Clearly guys who are making the play are going to turn it over on occasion. I'd say though, that Smith is the least involved / influential of the above.

 

[OB11]

Crouch is still trying to use us to leverage for the deal he wants from the Crows rather than genuine want to come to the Suns. Fact that we have only spoke to his manager speaks volumes.

Isaac Smith I'm more interested in - player who suits the list as the outside playmaker, has leadership from a good culture and wouldn't cost nearly as much as Crouch in terms of a trade.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Really depends
If I had to choose between the 2 without any consideration of contract or trade cost absolutely I'd take Crouch.

IF it is Brad Crouch at 4 years 700k and pick 11 next year vs. Isaac Smith at 3 years and 450k costing pick 20 - I'd take Crouch
If it is Brad Crouch @ 5 years 900k and pick 15 + 2020 pick 11 vs. Isaac Smith @ 2 years 400k costing 3rd rounder - I'd take Smith

 

[PREETY_FLY]

Pick 1&2 gets it done id say

for a guy who can't get on the track?

 

[TheSunGod]

But do we want negotiations to draw out with the same team we are trying steal their best young midfielder from? Could slightly 'overpaying' for Greenwood early in the trade period play in our favour in the Crouch/s negotiations later?

No F them. Other clubs all want to come and pillage our club. I say we go full Viking mode on them.

 

[eppo67]

Buddy, I fully comprehend the term “entitled” you have now earned the upgraded badge of “ignorant” to pin beside “entitled” keep going and I’ll hand you “arrogant”. Whilst we would consider Breust and Smith, no way in hell you slippery grubs will be getting anything above pick 15. Mark my words. Anderson will be a Sun.
Case closed, go back to bed and have some more lucid dreams.

Hawthorn Board : We need an arrogant self entitled flog as our President to match our Club ethos.
Board Member : l know the perfect bloke l'm pretty sure he's finished up with politics.

 

[Sun Stormer]

I can tell you that I'm not. You think that just because I think getting deals done is good business. Or is it foreign to have knowledge of the game in Queensland. We need to add some A grade midfielders. That much is obvious. I even posed several times questioning who else is gettable. Crows players are low hanging fruit at the moment.

Anyone who thinks we don't need A grade mids is delusional. I don't think we need both Crouch's but we definitely need 2 strong bulls to bolster the smaller bodies. Crouch (B) and Greenwood might just do that and if we snag another cheaper one then that's even better. Defense is still an issue as well. I saw one poster somewhere place B. Ellis at CHB for Ch......'s sake!

 

[Sun Stormer]

Starting to look like that Crouch won't happen which I am absolutely fine with, especially if he was asking towards 7 figures. Can bring in 2 Ellis / Greenwood level players into the club for that.

I would be right on the phone to Toby McLean to see if he wants to play through our midfield. Would also love to know who Cameron was talking about earlier today.

Toby McLean...another skinny mid / forward who can't make the Bulldogs 22. B. Crouch any day if we can snag him otherwise keep looking.

 

[TheSunGod]

I can’t see Isaac Smith leaving Melbourne. Too entrenched on the celebrity circuit. Would rather spend our resources chasing players in the 24-26 year age bracket, like the club has openly stated they want. Plus Hawthorn sucks!! Let them have one knee O’Cockface and sooky boy Scrimsook. No more gifts from us.

 

[kreglze]

Toby McLean...another skinny mid / forward who can't make the Bulldogs 22. B. Crouch any day if we can snag him otherwise keep looking.

He played 19 games for the Bulldogs and can't crack a midfield with Bont, McRae and Dunkley. For the right price I think he would add to the team, however that is just my opinion of course.

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

Lol you're hilarious, who knew there could be such big personalities supporting such a small club... I've been missing out.

If you’re such a mighty club then why sell half of your games to Tassie to play in front of 10,000??

 

[SandyToes]

If you’re such a mighty club then why sell half of your games to Tassie to play in front of 10,000??

1996

But they might just go to Tassie

 

[eppo67]

1996

But they might just go to Tassie

Thank God the AFL gave them Priority Picks and saved them. Thus handing them 3 Flags.