Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Bamboo Harvester]

Probably sums up Essendon to a Tee.

Overrated!

In fairness, we were rated down because we missed both Papley and Martin during the trade period. I know we ended up with Martin in the PSD, but it wasn't ideal.

The combination of Kemp and Philp will probably end up being a better outcome than Papley on his own, assuming pick 9 would have got the job done.

I will say I am a little nervous that we overlooked Deven Robertson though.

There is of course the conspiracy theory that SOS never actually wanted to trade for Martin at all, preferring the PSD because of the healthy state of our TPP after the Cogs deal feel through. Probably total BS, but I do love a good conspiracy theory....

Robertson was an interesting one...some clubs rated him highly, but Tigers also overlooked him as well for Dow, so something just doesn't add up there. Even Port were willing to trade with Lions rather than selecting him at pick 22.

 

[AT97]

Just reading in recent times about Irish prospects trialing with Adelaide and hawthorn. Considering Our history of bringing in Irish kids, I would’ve hoped our name would come up when some Irish prodigy was mentioned. The cat b rookie list should be used if available imho. Anyone know any reason why we aren’t active in that area?

 

[murphster]

Just reading in recent times about Irish prospects trialing with Adelaide and hawthorn. Considering Our history of bringing in Irish kids, I would’ve hoped our name would come up when some Irish prodigy was mentioned. The cat b rookie list should be used if available imho. Anyone know any reason why we aren’t active in that area?

Was just thinking exactly the same thing, we have Owies as a Cat B but should be looking to fill the other slots as well.

 

[Doro]

Just reading in recent times about Irish prospects trialing with Adelaide and hawthorn. Considering Our history of bringing in Irish kids, I would’ve hoped our name would come up when some Irish prodigy was mentioned. The cat b rookie list should be used if available imho. Anyone know any reason why we aren’t active in that area?

We've had a recent history of homesickness with the Irish lads, not sure if giving a local kid a rookie spot isn't a better option.

 

[AT97]

We've had a recent history of homesickness with the Irish lads, not sure if giving a local kid a rookie spot isn't a better option.

Aren’t cat b rookies in addition to the normal rookie list?

 

[Jeremias]

Aren’t cat b rookies in addition to the normal rookie list?

Yep, that's correct.

 

[Doro]

Aren’t cat b rookies in addition to the normal rookie list?

Still time and money for the club though. After Burns and Mcdaid left, maybe the club put the Irish network on the back burner. I know we got an AFLW recruit though.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Fair call.
While I wouldn’t put Gaff in an elite category re efficiency, solely by the eye test I would have put him on a level above Newnes. It is funny how a perception is often not backed up by the stats.
The only thing I do know for sure is that I’m very excited to have him in the navy blue, as regardless of disposal efficiency I think he’ll bring leadership and maturity to a quite young and inexperienced midfield group.

Agreed -- I remember everyone going on bout Newman for a fourth rounder --lucky we had him last year .. other than his first game against Sydney he was very good

 

[Jimmyonesix]

If history is any guide we’ll find out pretty early on, not banking on the big K playing 23 rounds of footy. Form will dictate obviously will we use opportunity to blood TDK?

Think bringing in Pitt will make him first refusal .. doubt TDK will overstep him

 

[Jimmyonesix]

This to me is Jack Silvagni all over, although not a “small forward” he ticks all the boxes you have listed, led the team for forward 50 tackles, 2nd in goal assists, next best for marks inside 50 after the KP players and his manic pressure and 2nd 3rd and 4th efforts are outstanding, got better as the year went on and the way he is able to now withstand pressure, especially the way he stands up in tackles and takes his time in assessing the best option before firing out a handpass to set up a teammate in space to score a goal, this is elite and it is Elite with a capital E.

Was comfortably our best performed non KP forward last year and should be starting in our forward line in Rd1 imo as he is the benchmark down there for effort and pressure, showed that you don’t have to be small and quick to be a pressure forward you just have to be smart and want it more than the next guy.

Totally agree, for everyone who says he no good .. essendon would take him tomorrow for a solid second round pick .. hawthorn probably also .. I watched the St Kilda replay last night what he did was very very good .. most very hard on jack plus he durable ..

 

[BlueView]

Think bringing in Pitt will make him first refusal .. doubt TDK will overstep him

Agree with that, haven’t personally seen enough of Pitt yet but I have seen enough of TDK to know he’s still to raw. Hope Pitt can be competitive at the level

 

[therubbernub]

It will be an interesting battle for that second HBF release player. Doc obviously has that first one nailed down and I look forward to seeing a return of his creative play- setting up many forward forays. But who will be the other one? Composure and disposal are the 2 standout features of Docs game. Who is the other one that can do the same on the opposite side of the ground? SPS comes immediately to mind . He has a really good disposal by foot- working the angles and weighting his kicks beautifully. He also seems to find time and space.
But where does that leave the other contenders ? Simmo, Newman, Williamson , Newnes, stocker....

 

[HARKER]

Every year is interesting as to the possible prospects and types we may be after, but this year may yet be the most interesting.
Admittedly, it may not have been had have Coniglio & Papley come on board, but given they didn't, we may see the final piece of the puzzle being chased.

Backline - Come years end, I expect this will be the line we find full and without need of having to replace anyone.
Jones, Weitering are the tall cornerstones here and we'll have to start seeing development via Macreadie and BSilvagni soon....but right now...all good.
Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Newman, Williamson, Stocker, SPS and Cottrell give us plenty of quality support around the principle talls.

Midfield - Every year we miss on a senior player reduces the need for one to be hunted down, given growth in what we hold.
Inside mids - Cripps, Setterfield, Walsh, Fisher and then Stocker and SPS could form the nucleus here, post Murphy and ECurnow.
Outside mids / Forward flankers - O'Brien, Cuningham, Martin, Gibbons and then Kemp & Philp should provide plenty of speed and quality delivery.

Rucks - Fair to say that this will be a target.

Forwards - Just goal-kickers. If we go for Papley again, then so be it but we will be needing goal-kickers - players that can manufacture goals from little.
Not easy to find a Charlie Cameron or a 25 year old Betts, but whichever form they come in, we have to find them.

I dislike losing first round selections, but I feel that the outcome for losing this and next years firsts for the types we need, could well fill us up with everything (almost everything) we need.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Every year is interesting as to the possible prospects and types we may be after, but this year may yet be the most interesting.
Admittedly, it may not have been had have Coniglio & Papley come on board, but given they didn't, we may see the final piece of the puzzle being chased.

Backline - Come years end, I expect this will be the line we find full and without need of having to replace anyone.
Jones, Weitering are the tall cornerstones here and we'll have to start seeing development via Macreadie and BSilvagni soon....but right now...all good.
Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Newman, Williamson, Stocker, SPS and Cottrell give us plenty of quality support around the principle talls.

Midfield - Every year we miss on a senior player reduces the need for one to be hunted down, given growth in what we hold.
Inside mids - Cripps, Setterfield, Walsh, Fisher and then Stocker and SPS could form the nucleus here, post Murphy and ECurnow.
Outside mids / Forward flankers - O'Brien, Cuningham, Martin, Gibbons and then Kemp & Philp should provide plenty of speed and quality delivery.

Rucks - Fair to say that this will be a target.

Forwards - Just goal-kickers. If we go for Papley again, then so be it but we will be needing goal-kickers - players that can manufacture goals from little.
Not easy to find a Charlie Cameron or a 25 year old Betts, but whichever form they come in, we have to find them.

I dislike losing first round selections, but I feel that the outcome for losing this and next years firsts for the types we need, could well fill us up with everything (almost everything) we need.

Retain our first round selections. We just need to target undervalued role players. E.g.

• Alex Keath for a second rounder.
• Zac Jones for a pick in the 30's.
• Hugh Greenwood for a 3rd rounder.

We need to be smart about our trading strategy.

You're bang on about our need for midfielders. Hopefully Dow, O'brien and Stocker have big 2020/21 preseasons and cement themselves in the starting 22 for the 2021 season. If they do, we shouldn't have any glaring deficiencies in our midfield.

As you've mentioned, small/mid sized goal kickers should be the priority, and maybe one high quality small lockdown defender. Still think the best avenue to finding these players is through the draft.

 

[HARKER]

Retain our first round selections. We just need to target undervalued role players. E.g.

• Alex Keath for a second rounder.
• Zac Jones for a pick in the 30's.
• Hugh Greenwood for a 3rd rounder.

We need to be smart about our trading strategy.

You're bang on about our need for midfielders. Hopefully Dow, O'brien and Stocker have big 2020/21 preseasons and cement themselves in the starting 22 for the 2021 season. If they do, we shouldn't have any glaring deficiencies in our midfield.

As you've mentioned, small/mid sized goal kickers should be the priority, and maybe one high quality small lockdown defender. Still think the best avenue to finding these players is through the draft.

I think you may be onto something.
You don't always need the best pieces......but just the right pieces.

I don't mind if we let go of our firsts, but I somehow like your idea better. Good thinking.

 

[Funk]

Despite the disdain for him on this forum, Ellis has made an initial All Australian squad.
I'd imagine that he'd be held in higher esteem than Newnes but personally, I don't believe that there's a drastic difference in output between them & even Martin tbh.

I imagine that Newnes will play quite a bit of footy for us over the next year or so & given the outlay, that's a win.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Let’s see if Ellis makes AA at the Suns...........

 

[Funk]

Probably sums up Essendon to a Tee.

Overrated!

In fairness, we were rated down because we missed both Papley and Martin during the trade period. I know we ended up with Martin in the PSD, but it wasn't ideal.

The combination of Kemp and Philp will probably end up being a better outcome than Papley on his own, assuming pick 9 would have got the job done.

I will say I am a little nervous that we overlooked Deven Robertson though.

Seriously?

Getting Martin for free “wasn’t ideal”?

F***ing perfect IMHO!!!!!

 

[Eiffel 65]

Seriously?

Getting Martin for free “wasn’t ideal”?

F***ing perfect IMHO!!!!!

I prefer deals that are win win.

 

[DangerousD]

Retain our first round selections. We just need to target undervalued role players. E.g.

• Alex Keath for a second rounder.
• Zac Jones for a pick in the 30's.
• Hugh Greenwood for a 3rd rounder.

We need to be smart about our trading strategy.

You're bang on about our need for midfielders. Hopefully Dow, O'brien and Stocker have big 2020/21 preseasons and cement themselves in the starting 22 for the 2021 season. If they do, we shouldn't have any glaring deficiencies in our midfield.

As you've mentioned, small/mid sized goal kickers should be the priority, and maybe one high quality small lockdown defender. Still think the best avenue to finding these players is through the draft.

I love your thoughts on keeping hold of the first round pick and targeting similar players to what you mentioned, as well as targeting any free agents, im all in for Williams.

Separately, although i like the idea of what you put forward, unless you are prepared to reach for what you need with your 1st round selection, i see the list continually being unbalanced. There were quite a broad range of players selected in the first round last year, so lock it in, our new strategy.

 

[Alite]

Hi guys,
From my point of view, this is what it looked like before you tossed aside one of the best list managers in the game..


—xxxxx—-

Date of post: 17/10/19

Please excuse the incursion.

I hope Carlton supporters are not too hard on Silvagni. He was stuck between a hard-ass and a head-case.

While Craig Cameron & Kall Burns may be the Sun’s recruiting managers, make no mistake that their strings are controlled by Tony Cochrane. This guy only sees a win / loss... for him to win everyone else needs to lose.
In his mind: If they re-sign Martin... then Jack is the loser and the Sun’s management win because they are “strong”. Cochrane is a fool.

And Dodoro is a shameless self-promoter with few ideas and even less common sense. Rejecting picks 5 and 9 in the Media for a player who has barely played for 2 years and wanted out... before discussions started with the Swans was bad form and posturing at its most egregious. No club wants to have to deal with this douche.

I’m confident you guys will get Jack Martin.

As of 5pm 17/10/19:
Gold Coast chairman Tony Cochrane declared “the Suns were "absolutely" prepared to re-draft Martin in the pre-season if they can't persuade him to extend before then.”
He is true to form.

I feel for Papley to a point. He seemed believable in his want to come back to Vic to have close access to his friends, girlfriend and family. That said, while Cockburn and Dodo are partially responsible for his situation, he also chose to sign a long contract. It is on his head as much as others.

For mine, Silvagni was the least worst of the people involved.

———x-xxx -x—-
And this is what is looks like after...

History says the result was: Carlton got Jack Martin for nothing. Silvagni won!! with bells on... and then was sacked for a trumped up conflict of interest (yer right).

 

[Jeremias]

2020 thread now up and running:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management.1234943/