Remove this Banner Ad

Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Smoking Gun said:
I've dragged it over to here TW as it's more List Management than unpopular opinions.


So here's the question to consider TW. Do you think they'll be busts because they're not good enough or they won't make it because our list now has better options available for selection??? Or is it combination of both???

For me:
  • Pickett - Doesn't want it enough. Bust
  • Polson - Better options now available to select from
  • Lang - Probably not talented enough - Bust
  • Cuningham - Better options now available to select from
  • Garlett - There are other options available to select from that are just as good, if not better, that may want it more.
These were all players we were hoping would come on last season, and if fit, most would've made your best 22. Now we've added McGovern, Newman, Setterfield, Fasolo, Stocker, Walsh, etc, so Pickett, Polson, Lang, Cuningham & Garlett get shuffled further back towards the rear of the deck. Is it a bad thing though??? Yeah a couple of them will be busts or not good enough, but I think it also says as much about the evolution of our list.

As the quality of the personnel on our playing list improves we raise the bar of expectation ever higher........but not just of the quality of the players on the field. For example, would you be happy if SOS continued to trade players of Smedts, Gorringe, Lang and Lamb quality or have your expectations changed where you now expect SOS to be trading in players of the McGovern, Newman and Setterfield calibre as a minimum standard now??? See how the bar of expectation has now been lifted???

The club is evolving as a whole and it can be challenging managing change on such a massive scale. Go too fast and it gets away from you, because you don't have resources in place to manage it properly. Go too slow and nothing gets achieved. When viewed in an evolutionary context, I think the club is heading in the right direction and is in pretty good hands.
Click to expand...
It’s such a pity that Pickett is looking like a long shot to be a long term player. I was at Subi for that preseason game against Freo after he first arrived. He was super impressive, ferocious at the contest and had a genuine impact with 3 goals. I really hope that Russell can help him reach his potential, it would be massive for our list if he can turn it around.
 
So to next years targets :
Coniglio as a FA would be at the top of every clubs list , lets join the que and in 12 months time the signs of a big club really on the move might well be very evident to him.
We need a clever small forward.
I note Billings is not interested in signing a contract extension at the saints , a clever lefty (Fisher on ball) at the feet of our big 3 would fit nicely and adelaide's 2019 1st rounder could be the guts of a trade.
That leaves another ruckman and a small defender on the shopping list.
 
The Smoking Gun said:
So here's the question to consider TW. Do you think they'll be busts because they're not good enough or they won't make it because our list now has better options available for selection??? Or is it combination of both???

For me:
  • Pickett - Doesn't want it enough. Bust
  • Polson - Better options now available to select from
  • Lang - Probably not talented enough - Bust
  • Cuningham - Better options now available to select from
  • Garlett - There are other options available to select from that are just as good, if not better, that may want it more.
Click to expand...

I'm not writing anyone off. All young and with a new regime in charge of fitness, mental preparation and a better side anything can happen. The group above all have the ability.

Garlett Polson & Cuningham especially look focussed and fit so far this pre season.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

The Smoking Gun said:
I'm hoping 2019 will be the year our youth begins to leave their imprint on side and best 22 transitions from this:

B: Docherty, Jones, Plowman
HB: Marchbank, Weitering, Simpson
C: SPS, Cripps, E.Curnow
HF: Pickett, C.Curnow, Thomas
F: McGovern, McKay, Fasolo
R: Kreuzer, Kennedy, Murphy
IC: O'Brien, Dow, Walsh, SOSOS.
E: Polson, Cuningham, Newman​

To at the end of the season resembling something more like this:

B: Docherty, Weitering, Plowman
HB: Marchbank, Macreadie, Williamson
C: Walsh, Cripps, O'Brien
HF: Dow, C.Curnow, Fasolo
F: SPS, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, Kennedy, Fisher
IC: Setterfield, Murphy, Stocker, Simpson
E: E.Curnow, Jones, Garlett.​

While that second 22 isn't definitive by any means, I'd be concerned about our coaching, development and fitness programs as well as our vision going forwards if our side isn't approaching something resembling that. Injuries, form and naturally varying rates of development will also play their part, but that's to be expected.

Notes:
  • Andrew Russell is the wild card in many ways. Looking forward to seeing if the physical and mental fitness programs he introduces accelerates the development of our youngsters. Will they also help to make the group more durable???
  • Newman will be right in the hunt with Plowman and Williamson for a spot in the back six. I think he's a better quality of player than Lang, Smedts, etc.
  • Would like to think Macreadie will be big enough and fit enough to edge Jones out at some point next season.
  • The new 666 rule will require HBs to be mobile, intercept and have good endurance levels. A HB line of Macreadie, Marchbank & Williamson should be able to provide that. They're all quick, have good tanks and use the ball pretty well.
  • Probably the first time I can remember not being concerned about the quality and quantity of our contested mids going forwards. One of the questions I do have is can we play all of Cripps, Setterfield & Kennedy in the same side??? None of them are particularly quick although it will be interesting to see how much better Kennedy moves with a full preseason under his belt and injury-free.
  • Fasolo will be competing against Garlett, Cuningham and perhaps one of Setterfield or Kennedy for a spot. I have him in ahead of Pickett, Cuningham, Garlett and Lang due to his stronger scoreboard impact.
  • It will be interesting to see if Bolton prefers TDK to Phillips or Lobbe should Kreuzer get injured. Might be a bit much of an ask in 2019, but wouldn't be surprised if that was the case in 2020.
  • Couldn't find a spot for SOSOS. Was used all over the park at AFL & VFL levels last year trying to find a position for him. The acquisitions of Setterfield and Stocker have slammed the doors shut on an inside midfield role and he's not mobile enough to push Plowman, Marchbank or Williamson out of defence. Really needs to make it as 3rd tall forward.
  • If I was going to pick one of Pickett, Cuningham, Garlett or Lang to make it then I'd choose Garlett. Of the four I think he has the most rounded game, a reasonable endurance base and the one being most likely to be able to accumulate while being able to impact both the game and the scoreboard. Needs to show he can get to the drop of the ball (front and square of contests), exert defensive pressure, create play and can find his own ball when required. Will need to work his arse off to get a game though.
Needs Going Forwards:
  • Two Ruckmen. One already mature and ready to go, even it's a back-up for TDK and another young one for development. It maybe that we draft one to develop next year and have a crack at Grundy as a FA in 2020. I don't see Lobbe or Phillips as medium or longterm solutions and Kreuzer struggles to get off the ground these days.
  • Midfielders. We need another 3-4 and two of those must have genuine speed. Murphy & Simmo are getting towards the end while none of Cuningham, Garlett, Lang or Polson are any guarantee to make it as midfielders at AFL level. I'd be looking for balanced or outside types with wheels who can find their own ball when required and aren't afraid of contact.
  • Two small forwards with genuine speed and maybe some aerial prowess. Yes you can spend high picks on them such as Ainsworth and Rankine, but plenty of the best ones have been taken mid-draft or later. Betts, Walters, Zorko (was ignored for ******* years, literally), Charlie Cameron, Fantasia & Puopolo just to name a few.
  • Another small or medium running defender with genuine speed and excellent disposal by foot.
  • Two genuine KPPs, one forward and one defender. I'm not talking about 193cm 3rd talls that people like to pretend are KPPs, but mobile players approaching 200cm+ who can take contested marks, make sound quick decisions and move the ball on.
  • You'd still need 3 years to acquire all those players, but it shouldn't stop our march up the ladder. Nor will we be able to keep them all, but that's sort of the aim as far as I'm concerned. You want the list to self-generate. People carry on about GWS' TPP issues, but is it really that big of an issue having to trade some to them out??? If you think it is then just go and have a look at who they've drafted in 2016, 2017 and 2018.
Coaching & Admin
  • Think the club would admit it made a mistake moving Neil Craig on without having a proper replacement lined up. I'm not sure whose decision that may have been, or how much say Bolton had in it, but it is good to see the club identify the problem and move to correct it. I think Russell will prove to be a valuable addition.
  • As a follow on from the previous point, it's probably time to move Barker on. I don't just think it will be beneficial to the club, but also Barker himself if he really wants to become a senior coach. A year or two under Fagan or Longmire might just be the last tick he needs on his resume to achieve his aim.
  • I liked the appointment of Brad Lloyd to replace Andrew McKay. Has extensive experience in List Management and some in Coaching so I think he'll bring new things to the Head of Football position that McKay couldn't.
Click to expand...
Love your posts TSG reckon your on the money.
Kennedy however not so sure.
 
Soapy V said:
I'm not writing anyone off. All young and with a new regime in charge of fitness, mental preparation and a better side anything can happen. The group above all have the ability.

Garlett Polson & Cuningham especially look focussed and fit so far this pre season.
Click to expand...

I still give Garlett and Cuningham a shot too. Like TW said on Polson. Small chance of a Puapolo style player but Needs to find something more with our current list.
 
Pafloyul said:
Unless Rankine has attitude problems that will prevent him from fulfilling his potential or will fly the coop at the first opportunity then I agree with the spotty twerp.

I can begrudgingly concede that Carlton would value Walsh over the two best talls for different reasons but a player with Rankine's particular strengths doesn't come around too often and it's not as if he wouldn't be a perfect fit for our forward line. I would never have allowed Gold Coast to get so much silk through the door with its first three picks. The fact that we took another 'pure mid' with our surprise trade puts an extra spin on the situation and it makes me want to revisit our decision to overlook Stephenson and/or Fogarty last year. We roughly have one starting midfielder too many (even without including Murphy) and are deficient in quality small to medium forwards. It seems a bit of a tactical blunder by the club as it seems that we are cutting the edge off the potential talent we bring through the door.
Click to expand...

I’m a Rankine fan as well. Would have been very entertaining watching him play for Carlton.

After watching the draft and then listening to Walsh and Stockers interviews l think l started to understand what was important to Silvagni. Both Walsh and Stocker are excellent communicators for there age and as a result come across as mature young men. They also appear self motivated.

With a young list silvagni wanted draftees who could not only play football but also make the group better on a personal level. Where there is better communication and interaction between players when coming together to achieve a common goal.

I keep thinking about the Walsh Cotchin comparison. I think this comparison is also good personality wise. It seems Cotchin has been very important off field for Richmond. Maybe Walsh will be for Carlton as well.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Pafloyul said:
Unless Rankine has attitude problems that will prevent him from fulfilling his potential or will fly the coop at the first opportunity then I agree with the spotty twerp.

I can begrudgingly concede that Carlton would value Walsh over the two best talls for different reasons but a player with Rankine's particular strengths doesn't come around too often and it's not as if he wouldn't be a perfect fit for our forward line. I would never have allowed Gold Coast to get so much silk through the door with its first three picks. The fact that we took another 'pure mid' with our surprise trade puts an extra spin on the situation and it makes me want to revisit our decision to overlook Stephenson and/or Fogarty last year. We roughly have one starting midfielder too many (even without including Murphy) and are deficient in quality small to medium forwards. It seems a bit of a tactical blunder by the club as it seems that we are cutting the edge off the potential talent we bring through the door.
Click to expand...


You think if we 100% knew we were getting Stocker, it might have pushed Rankine up in our needs?

I think the clubs biggest need now is experience, but after that I reckon it's an explosive small-medium forward in the wingard, gray, petracca, degoey, Raynor, Rankine mould...especially if we get a Coniglio or Taranto via FA/trade next year

That said no way known id have the balls to pass on Sam Walsh, the Victorian mr perfect midfielder
 
Kruzering said:
You think if we 100% knew we were getting Stocker, it might have pushed Rankine up in our needs?
I think the clubs biggest need now is experience, but after that I reckon it's an explosive small-medium forward in the wingard, gray, petracca, degoey, Raynor, Rankine mould...especially if we get a Coniglio or Taranto via FA/trade next year
That said no way known id have the balls to pass on Sam Walsh, the Victorian mr perfect midfielder
Click to expand...

Can't say for sure, but that may have been the likely outcome for the CFC also.
It's easy to say here that the club should have done this or that, but when the crunch comes, it would have been very hard for the group as a whole (Bolton included) to pass up on Walsh.

Live trading is brilliant. Another one of those things we have to ask ourselves; Why didn't we do it earlier? Just like it will be with a night GF.
 
Kruzering said:
You think if we 100% knew we were getting Stocker, it might have pushed Rankine up in our needs?

I think the clubs biggest need now is experience, but after that I reckon it's an explosive small-medium forward in the wingard, gray, petracca, degoey, Raynor, Rankine mould...especially if we get a Coniglio or Taranto via FA/trade next year

That said no way known id have the balls to pass on Sam Walsh, the Victorian mr perfect midfielder
Click to expand...
We had no way of knowing Stocker would still be available by the time we were able to make a trade, would be a huge risk to take Rankine if we then missed on the second trade.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

jd2010 said:
As much as it’d be great to land Kelly or Coniglio I think a Taranto in that Dusty/De Goey role is what we need more. Look at the number of young midfielders we’ve got who by the age of 23-25 could be at that elite level.

Dow, Fisher, Walsh, Setterfield, Kennedy, SPS and Stocker have either gone top 20 in the draft or in Fisher’s case shown enough to feel like enough of them will be top talent. Only need 2 of that 7 to be in that AA level to compliment Cripps for our midfield to be a weapon! Won’t be overnight but these kids are going to hit that 23 year / 60-70 game mark and some will absolutely explode while others will be solid contributors.
Click to expand...
could it be that stocker turns into the dusty/de-goey role?
 
HARKER said:
May make for a harsh reality, but reckon somehow Bolton will be buoyed to hear this and even more so, to watch the proof in the pudding, come to be. - That is when our players finally get AFL fit.

This is a good thing and if Russell did say this (and I have no doubt to think he wouldn't have) he has now put down his mark of where he feels things should get to. Now he just has to do it and we can start to see the giys that really want to make it, be in the game for the full 4 quarters+
Click to expand...
Have we ever seen a properly fit Carlton in the post 2000 modern era....?
No...[no that hard to imagine how well drilled Hawks have been past 10 yrs....Russell will sett new training gradient,it wont be like the Hawks but it will mould the group into something different and will come at a price however it will have to be done.
Bolts/SOS/Russell are setting current standards that will allow the CFC to compete and eventually move up the ladder and stay there
As well as the list development with drafting more ....this is no quick fix...its here to stay
When the elites knock on the door for trades and a Carlton payday we start to look for finals
 
Last edited:
Bluey24 said:
I'm reading comparisons between Walsh and Cotchin, and Rankine and Wingard

I'll take the ultra consistent leader
Click to expand...

Yep, there is a fair list of the most freakishly talented draft bargains that just don’t go on to live up to the hype.
Ive heard it said more than a few times, “the most naturally gifted player in the draft, could be the bargain of the draft, and taken at number.....
We drafted one at number 6 ten years ago.
Doesn’t work out that way all that often.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

therubbernub said:
I get why you are down on Pickett- coming back unfit AGAIN is a bad sign. However injuries do play their part.
Click to expand...

The good thing about the club now is that Pickett has had it made clear it's not good enough and standards need to be met regardless of age or injuries. He will either step up now or miss out. Early indications are the penny may have dropped. I hope so

It's a good message for everyone else as well
 
Robbo's my hero said:
A bit harsh. Kreuzer is very consistent when he plays. Certainly never went missing like the number 2 pick.
Click to expand...

It is harsh, unfortunately it’s reality.
Part of consistency is being able to get on the park. Cotchin hasn’t played under 20 games in the past 8 seasons. Kreuzer has averaged around 13 games over the past 5.
Wish it wasn’t, but it is what it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top