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List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

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Blue__Balls said:
Yet people were bemoaning Josh Honey not getting an extended run of games. And Dow, apparently, should have been given a longer run to "readjust to the pace of AFL".

Excuses and justifications and exceptions are made for some players, and I reckon Moore misses out on that through the odd perception that he was given a spot because he's Liddle's love child or something.

He was one of three players who trained with us through the preseason. One of those went down with (another) injury and missed out. The other was a young kid who was overlooked at the draft. Moore came in and performed very well at reserves level, more so than some players who have been on our list much longer. He was given two opportunities at senior level and didn't impress. Others were afforded similar opportunities and failed to impress, yet aren't being spoken of the same way.

As I said, though, I'm not fussed if he doesn't get picked up again. If he does, it's only because we suffer another long term injury, because if that doesn't happen then my understanding is that there probably isn't a list spot for him. Bare minimum, he's a flexible player who improves our reserves a fair bit. We're not finding much better in the SSP, and we've got enough young kids we're struggling to develop that I'd rather our efforts were focused there instead of trying to find another rough diamond to ruin with an ordinary development program.
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Compare apples to apples. Moore 23. Josh honey 18. Dow 21 and injury issues.


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Blue__Balls said:
Yeah, I think that's the key, there.

A lot of players who showed a bit in the reserves were unable to translate that to senior form, especially when afforded minimal opportunity. I'm not saying Dow and Moore are a perfect equivalent, just that there are players who have had various excuses made for them, and a couple who don't seem to get the same treatment. And it does seem to stem from the manner in which those players found their way onto the list.

People want Dow to come good because he was a high draft pick and we don't want to have wasted the selection. People want Betts to come good because he's a ripping bloke and there's a lot of nostalgia at play. People want Honey to come good because he was a late pickup and we want to be able to say we've finally nailed one of those.

Moore's backstory is tied to his link with Liddle, and there seems to be a lot of bias against him because of that. Say we picked up Sam Skinner this off season, I don't think he's getting anywhere near the same disparagement as Moore got.

I'm not losing sleep if Moore misses out on a spot. Equally, I'm not losing sleep if he gets a very late reprieve.

Bare minimum he performs consistently well in the reserves in a number of positions, and therefore gives us some stability in output as well as positional flexibility to cover injuries or shuffle players around for development.

Slim chance that, given more opportunity in a more normal AFL season, that he could find some reasonable form as a role player at AFL level if our depth was severely tested.
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Sound rational commentary ..... Get him!
 

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Jeremias said:
Yes - extreme case of hyperbole to make any sort of call about Stocker's future on the back of him leaving the hub, without any sort of understanding as to why he left.

That's exactly my point.
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Who are these 'lots of people' who have 'basically written Stocker off' ? I'm curious - because apart from many quesitons about Stocker leaving - I haven't read anything from anyone pointing to anything concrete let alone writing him off. I'm curious because Stocker|Kemp and Charlie all fit and firing woudl be fanatastic for the Club.

Anyway good to read that Stocker has come into pre-season looking really fit - same for SOJ - both were missed in '20.
 
According to Teague's pressure this arvo, the club is aware of a number of HB flankers who might play on a wing for us next year: Samo, Willo and Doc. However Saad is not amongst the list and will play solely in defence.

In other news, Teague also stated that he wanted to continue with the 3 key forward set up in 2021 when fully fit.
 
Blue__Balls said:
Yeah, I think that's the key, there.

A lot of players who showed a bit in the reserves were unable to translate that to senior form, especially when afforded minimal opportunity. I'm not saying Dow and Moore are a perfect equivalent, just that there are players who have had various excuses made for them, and a couple who don't seem to get the same treatment. And it does seem to stem from the manner in which those players found their way onto the list.

People want Dow to come good because he was a high draft pick and we don't want to have wasted the selection. People want Betts to come good because he's a ripping bloke and there's a lot of nostalgia at play. People want Honey to come good because he was a late pickup and we want to be able to say we've finally nailed one of those.

Moore's backstory is tied to his link with Liddle, and there seems to be a lot of bias against him because of that. Say we picked up Sam Skinner this off season, I don't think he's getting anywhere near the same disparagement as Moore got.

I'm not losing sleep if Moore misses out on a spot. Equally, I'm not losing sleep if he gets a very late reprieve.

Bare minimum he performs consistently well in the reserves in a number of positions, and therefore gives us some stability in output as well as positional flexibility to cover injuries or shuffle players around for development.

Slim chance that, given more opportunity in a more normal AFL season, that he could find some reasonable form as a role player at AFL level if our depth was severely tested.
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It's not about Moore, so much as it is the position and type of player he is.

KPFs were arguably our deepest position, with

Charlie
McKaY
Casboult
TDK
McGovern

all before him.

Plus guys like Kennedy and JSOS who can play third tall.

Yet we went and picked up a mature age kpf.

Thats the issue really.

The fact that he didnt so much at the top level was just the expected outcome. The sentiment towards him was already sealed.

Imagine if we used his spot on a KPD or small fwd
 
JustaBattler said:
Who are these 'lots of people' who have 'basically written Stocker off' ? I'm curious - because apart from many quesitons about Stocker leaving - I haven't read anything from anyone pointing to anything concrete let alone writing him off. I'm curious because Stocker|Kemp and Charlie all fit and firing woudl be fanatastic for the Club.

Anyway good to read that Stocker has come into pre-season looking really fit - same for SOJ - both were missed in '20.
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Plenty of examples over the past few months of people on here who are keen to stick the boots into Liam.

Leaving the hub with no real concrete explanation as to why has simply fuelled the fire for some.

Has been disgusting to see but a real eye opener in many respects.
 
The rate of maturity varies for youngsters,hopefully all i ok and settled for Stocker going forward and he's able to focus on better development of his athleticism and skills.
AFL is demanding and daunting upgrade for young players not all can cope or are cut out immediately with the increases in work loads and fan expectations.
 
AlecDuncan said:
Not really. Not in that year at least.

70Ben Silvagni
71Caleb Graham
72Brayden Ham
73Riley Grundy
74Oscar Brownless
75Toby Bedford
76Boyd Woodcock
77Atu Bosenavulagi
78Will Hayes

At least he showed up, unlike Thomas Bugg. How is the influencer biz going these days anyway?
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Just from that list Both Atu & Woodcock but the player i had in mind was jake Aarts from Richmond. But no great loss my comments were more about BS level of talent and if that warranted to be drafted.
 
Jeremias said:
Plenty of examples over the past few months of people on here who are keen to stick the boots into Liam.

Leaving the hub with no real concrete explanation as to why has simply fuelled the fire for some.

Has been disgusting to see but a real eye opener in many respects.
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The kid seems to have come back ready to go, J. Offers a point of difference if he can get it together. As I’ve put LOB to the sword and happy to eat humble pie, hope Stoker dishes out his share.
 

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FitzroyBlueBagger said:
Mongrel has been clearly lacking in us as a team and individually for a very long time, far too long...
Playing with mongrel or hardness is a trait that IMO some are naturally born with, many can with maturity build and enhance this into their game in time and some that purely don’t have it in them...
We atm unfortunately don’t have many individual players that clearly standout in this department, there are some that look like they might and eventually will enforce it, we need to start setting standards individually and collectively...
What has been disappointing is that we have had barely any leaders over recent years that have played or lead in a manner that would have helped lay the platform and set standards too show the next generation the way...
With such a large group of underdeveloped kids coming through in such a short time, 6 years later since our rebuild started it was always going to take time but its got too the stage where we need to be playing with a harder edge...
I hope we can take that step...
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I really miss Mitch Robinson.
 
katmanblue said:
I really miss Mitch Robinson.
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Big time, his attack at the contest was inspiring and he’s turned into a better footballer...
 
BigBreakfast said:
Who is most likely to become our “Mitch” type?
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He plays in a manner that very few can or do, he’s so ferocious I’m not sure we have anyone close to him... Stocker has the steely edge in him he’ll never shirk a contest, On U18’s form Kemp has a bull like approach for the contest too and on very small sample size Fogarty defensively crashes in hard with tackling for a smaller sized player... Willo doesn’t shirk not a crash and bash type but goes hard as well...
 
BigBreakfast said:
Who is most likely to become our “Mitch” type?
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can we clone Aaron Hamill.---.. Talk about defensive pressure.--- was one of the forerunners of a real vicious attack on the player coming out of defence
 

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I really miss Adrian Hickmott but um, he doesn't play for us anymore...........
 
jezzatigerbrent said:
can we clone Aaron Hamill.---.. Talk about defensive pressure.--- was one of the forerunners of a real vicious attack on the player coming out of defence
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I remember a game at princes park, saw hamill charge at a player and whack, what an unbelievable sound! to hear that over crowd noise, and from a distance I was awe struck. Reminded me of lightning- saw the collision and then a few seconds later came the sound!
 
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