Coach 2022 Coaching

[George]

Man, I can completely see this point of view and though it is not my point of view I respect it. I hear what you speak.

I think gameplan can cover talent and if effort isn't a consistent given then something has gone wrong with recruiting and development.

So, before a game begins you are behind. None of this is directed at STKFC at this point in time—just a discussion.

I remember that you follow both the EPL and NFL. My observations of watching Liverpool and New Orleans is that both teams can win or stay competitive, even when undermanned, because they have a superior coaching squad to most, who devise structures, plays and strategies to assist whoever is on the field on any given 'Sunday' so to speak.

The players of these clubs always 'try'—though that is a generic term.
But they also often, often win due to them playing their part in a field wide structure where each inch matters.

But not arguing, I see what you are saying and think it is just variations on various themes.

I don't want to argue but the NFL is probably the most system based sport in the world and the EPL has such a large gulf in talent that the bottom sides who try their arse off still won't come close to the better sides. It's even worse in the Spanish, German and French leagues where there's only 1 or 2 sides consistently at the top winning trophies and the rest levels and levels behind them.

AFL is a unique competition because it's so even so the importance on effort becomes even greater and IMO is the difference between a side who gives consistently great effort with average gameplan, tactic or skill compared to a team that has all the talent, the best gameplan but picks and chooses when to turn up.

 

[Saint Christopher]

I don't want to argue but the NFL is probably the most system based sport in the world and the EPL has such a large gulf in talent that the bottom sides who try their arse off still won't come close to the better sides. It's even worse in the Spanish, German and French leagues where there's only 1 or 2 sides consistently at the top winning trophies and the rest levels and levels behind them.

AFL is a unique competition because it's so even so the importance on effort becomes even greater and IMO is the difference between a side who gives consistently great effort with average gameplan, tactic or skill compared to a team that has all the talent, the best gameplan but picks and chooses when to turn up.

I don't feel you are arguing at all, those are very fair points.
I will have to take your word on the EPL and other leagues as I am just a watcher of Liverpool and don't watch other teams a great deal. Happy to admit i am naive.

In regard to the AFL, it seems to me that teams like Richmond, Melbourne, Geelong and Brisbane—and to a lesser extent this year Sydney and Fremantle—play a disciplined, this-is-who-we-are game style—that allows them to compensate for team rotations/injuries etc. My interpretation here is that these successful teams of the modern era, perhaps not Freo, that is a bit premature, don't discuss effort and pressure, they work on a higher game plane of setting up their game plan and negating what the opposition does. And what to do in precarious game day scenarios. Effort and pressure are your game like kicking efficiency, handballing to a teammate on the run and turning up to the ground on time, doing your warm ups and hydrating...

I don't feel our coaches make the most of the talent we have on the list but that is a conversation for another time.

Anyway, drunk.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I don't feel you are arguing at all, those are very fair points.
I will have to take your word on the EPL and other leagues as I am just a watcher of Liverpool and don't watch other teams a great deal. Happy to admit i am naive.

In regard to the AFL, it seems to me that teams like Richmond, Melbourne, Geelong and Brisbane—and to a lesser extent this year Sydney and Fremantle—play a disciplined, this-is-who-we-are game style—that allows them to compensate for team rotations/injuries etc. My interpretation here is that these successful teams of the modern era, perhaps not Freo, that is a bit premature, don't discuss effort and pressure, they work on a higher game plane of setting up their game plan and negating what the opposition does. And what to do in precarious game day scenarios. Effort and pressure are your game like kicking efficiency, handballing to a teammate on the run and turning up to the ground on time, doing your warm ups and hydrating...

I don't feel our coaches make the most of the talent we have on the list but that is a conversation for another time.

Anyway, drunk.

Chris Scott was on AFL 360 and said that effort was the most overrated term in coaching because he always assumes it's a given.

 

[George]

I don't feel you are arguing at all, those are very fair points.
I will have to take your word on the EPL and other leagues as I am just a watcher of Liverpool and don't watch other teams a great deal. Happy to admit i am naive.

In regard to the AFL, it seems to me that teams like Richmond, Melbourne, Geelong and Brisbane—and to a lesser extent this year Sydney and Fremantle—play a disciplined, this-is-who-we-are game style—that allows them to compensate for team rotations/injuries etc. My interpretation here is that these successful teams of the modern era, perhaps not Freo, that is a bit premature, don't discuss effort and pressure, they work on a higher game plane of setting up their game plan and negating what the opposition does. And what to do in precarious game day scenarios. Effort and pressure are your game like kicking efficiency, handballing to a teammate on the run and turning up to the ground on time, doing your warm ups and hydrating...

I don't feel our coaches make the most of the talent we have on the list but that is a conversation for another time.

Anyway, drunk.

Bit of chicken/egg for me on this one. I can see both sides, just a preference towards effort above all else. Other factors obviously very important just consider effort to be more important. Understand all your points though obviously.

 

[George]

Chris Scott was on AFL 360 and said that effort was the most overrated term in coaching because he always assumes it's a given.

Riewoldt says exact opposite so it's just a personal preference as to what you value more I guess

 

[austinnn]

Team with Talent, system and effort: Geelong Cats, Sydney Swans

Team with talent & system but no effort: West Coast Eagles

Team with system and effort but not enough talent: Carlton Blues, Richmond Tigers 2022?

Team with effort, a bit of talent but no system: St Kilda Saints

 

[g_TRAIN]

Riewoldt says exact opposite so it's just a personal preference as to what you value more I guess

Agreed and Riewoldt says that because it's what Ross Lyon used to preach.

Either way, I agree with you that effort is a non-negotiable.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Chris Scott was on AFL 360 and said that effort was the most overrated term in coaching because he always assumes it's a given.

Inherited a team in great shape..
Premiership shape.

They trade in grown men every year.
If a man is still playing AFL at that age and still in the system, they obviously understand the effort needed on field and at training.

Different story with a team full of kids.

Scott wouldn’t understand.
Never coached a kid.

Sam deKoning might be the only 18yo he’s ever coached that is amounting to anything.

 

[gringo2011]

Inherited a team in great shape..
Premiership shape.

They trade in grown men every year.
If a man is still playing AFL at that age and still in the system, they obviously understand the effort needed on field and at training.

Different story with a team full of kids.

Scott wouldn’t understand.
Never coached a kid.

Sam deKoning might be the only 18yo he’s ever coached that is amounting to anything.

A few years ago we had heaps more ring-ins than them strangely. They just had more high profile ones. I think they currently have 8 from other clubs. 9 if you count Menagola having been delisted from Freo. Higgins, Ceglar and Rohan aren't regulars any more.

We have 14 on our list.

 

[Mowman]

Saints to farewell McGlynn​

Assistant Coach Ben McGlynn

Ben Mcglynn

Age

40

Ht

172cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.1

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

5.0

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.4

3star

has informed the Saints he will return to Mildura with his family ahead at season's end.

 

[gringo2011]

Saints to farewell McGlynn​

Assistant Coach Ben McGlynn has informed the Saints he will return to Mildura with his family ahead at season's end.

Thanks Benny but that's actually a great chance for us to refresh the coaching set up.

 

[St Kilda Death]

A few years ago we had heaps more ring-ins than them strangely. They just had more high profile ones. I think they currently have 8 from other clubs. 9 if you count Menagola having been delisted from Freo. Higgins, Ceglar and Rohan aren't regulars any more.

We have 14 on our list.

Not sure if you’re missing my point.

We will have 4 players over 29 on Saturday night.
They will have 11, probably a sub as well so 12.

We will have 4 players under 23.
They have 1.

Scott has never in 10 years had a young side, he wouldn’t know how to coach them.

 

[Mowman]

Scott has never in 10 years had a young side, he wouldn’t know how to coach them.

I cant stand Scott 'but can't agree with that statement, he can coach

 

[St Kilda Death]

I cant stand Scott 'but can't agree with that statement, he can coach

He can coach men.
Until dekonig I hadn’t seen him bring a quality kid from an 18yo to become a player.

 

[Joffaboy]

I cant stand Scott 'but can't agree with that statement, he can coach

We all know he can coach, watching the Geelong machine v Richmond earlier this year confirmed it for me.

Don't think the other poster was saying he can't coach, but has never coached a young team. A bit different.

 

[Premium]

Well McGlynn gone - so there will be one new coach next year.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure if you’re missing my point.

We will have 4 players over 29 on Saturday night.
They will have 11, probably a sub as well so 12.

We will have 4 players under 23.
They have 1.

Scott has never in 10 years had a young side, he wouldn’t know how to coach them.

We're not young either just not geriatric. A lot of their guys are ancient and have to be managed.

 

[gringo2011]

He can coach men.
Until dekonig I hadn’t seen him bring a quality kid from an 18yo to become a player.

They tend to not bottom out so don't get high picks. I'd say they have bought on a lot of youth players but their ceilings are a bit lower because they never get high picks and also traded a lot out for their oldies. I think Cam Guthrie started in 2011 which is when Scott started. Plenty like Parfitt etc all came through under him but haven't managed to get a good run at it.

I also think they play a very team orientated game like Richmond did where individual stats weren't as highly rated as team acts and following the game plan. After 11 years everyone who has come through are his players other than those 30 plus guys who would still have been very young when he started coaching there.

 

[gringo2011]

We all know he can coach, watching the Geelong machine v Richmond earlier this year confirmed it for me.

Don't think the other poster was saying he can't coach, but has never coached a young team. A bit different.

I'm not sure this is true. A few years back I did an analysis on their list they only had about 5 guys that were from other clubs. They were always about to tip over the edge because people assumed their success was based on a golden generation that was coming to an end. When we were a young side they were bringing in as much youth and sometimes more than us but still managed to stay in deep final contention.

 

[kick it lace out]

Well McGlynn gone - so there will be one new coach next year.

I reckon there might be a couple more to go.

 

[AirWinmar]

He can coach men.
Until dekonig I hadn’t seen him bring a quality kid from an 18yo to become a player.

Sorry mate, but that's crazy. More than half their list has been drafted by Geelong who they have developed and couched very well during Scott's time - Guthrie, Bews, Henry, Miers, Duncan, Stewart, etc. They've always had senior stars around to help tho.

 

[austinnn]

Would Matthew Knights

Matthew Knights

Age

55

Ht

178cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

9.3

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

join? Would he fit? Been around a bit

 

[St Kilda Death]

Sorry mate, but that's crazy. More than half their list has been drafted by Geelong who they have developed and couched very well during Scott's time - Guthrie, Bews, Henry, Miers, Duncan, Stewart, etc. They've always had senior stars around to help tho.

Yeah no doubt good senior leaders help.
Duncan was already there when Scott got there.
Stewart came in at 23yo from playing under Scarlett in Geelong league.

I’ll give you Guthrie, bews, Henry and miers.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Thanks Benny but that's actually a great chance for us to refresh the coaching set up.

It probably means that we keep "forwards coach" Brendon Lade , because we already need to replace McGlynn.
If the coaches are anything to do with the performance, i'd rather have kept our midfield coach than our forwards coach.

Not sure who is available that we could head hunt.
Ben Jacobs: Development Coach : Has he shown enough that he could cut it as a line coach.
Jarryd Roughead: Operations Assistant. Can he do a full time coaching role.
Jake Batchelor : Has his work in the VFL been good enough for a promotion ( Hamil went from VFL/Development to line coach i think ).
Lade : Forwards Coach, Can he perform a special role to ensure the trainee receptions perform at peak level.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah no doubt good senior leaders help.
Duncan was already there when Scott got there.
Stewart came in at 23yo from playing under Scarlett in Geelong league.

I’ll give you Guthrie, bews, Henry and miers.

Even the ancient guys now have spent most of their careers under Scott. Hawkins was a premiership player but was only in his 4th year. Basically Max King now. Hawkins was still in development rather than finished article. Selwood was 5 years into his career so at the same point as Clark and Coffield. I think you'd have to say that most of the Geelong list has spent the better part of their formative years under him.