List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I was thinking about my favourite players in the current Carlton squad, and I tend to gravitate to regular contributors who are often criticised, and inspiring stories.

Thus those who have my heart currently are: JSOS, Doc, Kennedy, Acres, Kemp, Cincotta, with Moir threatening to join them.

I defend those first 6 like nobody else. I want them to succeed so badly.

However ... I love the club more. If Kennedy has to go elsewhere, I'll live with it for the sake of success. If Doc has to retire, I'll live with it for the sake of success. If Kemp and Cincotta spend half their time in the VFl, I'll live with it for team success.

I'll arc up if Acres is threatened. The guy has a heart bigger than Phar Lap's and is the type you go to war with.

JSOS is the one where my rhyme and reason goes out the window a little bit. Nobody with that lineage should ever pull on another club's guernsey. Keep him contracted and in Navy Blue, even if you only play him 10 games per year.

I'll compromise for team success ... mostly.

Owies and Kennedy make sense ... as much as the latter hurts me.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I don't think a big shake up is detrimental, as long as it's a controlled strategy

There wouldn't be a single club that has everyone on the same page

I have been calling for numerous changes for a long time

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Completely agree. We fans just need to accept some of our favourites might go, but we need to stop being so nice and demand more from out list.

Like you said, we have 6 Superstars, and of those 6 it might be the best set up in the league - 2 Coleman forwards, 1x Brownlow & Finals Finals B&F mids & an AA Full back. The spread and balance of the stars is elite. The fact we have barely just scraped into the 8 is unacceptable and we need to finally do something about it.

Just for the record, TDK was the 6th elite player for me.

 

[Blue Pulse]

What about the trade fails you conveniently ingnore: Williams, Thomas, Mcgovern, Martin, Cerra.
When a trade fails, unlike a draft failure you lose additionally Cap Space and if the draft pick is moderately successful career length because the traded player is usually post 25

Bit early on the Cerra call, finished top 10 in BnF in 22 (18 games), 4th in 23 (22 Games), we just need to get him fit

 

[Coops93]

Just for the record, TDK was the 6th elite player for me.

I guessed that but didn't want to assume, so left it as it was.

TDK is just further to the point that the top end balance is nigh on perfect. Elite ruck, 2x elite mids, 2x elite forwards, 1x elite KD, spread doesn't get much better than that.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

What about the trade fails you conveniently ingnore: Williams, Thomas, Mcgovern, Martin, Cerra.
When a trade fails, unlike a draft failure you lose additionally Cap Space and if the draft pick is moderately successful career length because the traded player is usually post 25

Care to provide the Martin trade details?
How is Daisy Thomas relevant?
Williams Cerra and Mcgovern are all more than capable of being part of 17.... They're not fails.....

 

[Michael Jezz]

Care to provide the Martin trade details?
How is Daisy Thomas relevant?
Williams Cerra and Mcgovern are all more than capable of being part of 17.... They're not fails.....

It doesn't matter according to you that waste $500,000 + on a big name that does not deliver.
We have so many skeletons in the closet on that score. I want to keep our first round picks

 

[CJMB]

It doesn't quite work like that though. Another body in their place will kick goals. Maybe not as many, but opportunities will go to others who will kick more than this year. You're looking for skillset, not just the end result.

Where you have a point is that they are both good shots at goal, and we lack that reliability.

We are still going to get a similar amount of inside 50s to service the forward line.

Silvagni will automatically take part of this shortfall, then you have any additional to the side, plus Moir.

Moir has averaged 1 goal in 23.5% game time across his 2 games. Extrapolating that out, in theory he'd need 18 games at 65% to surpass those 49 goals... simples..

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[DangerousD]

What about the trade fails you conveniently ingnore: Williams, Thomas, Mcgovern, Martin, Cerra.
When a trade fails, unlike a draft failure you lose additionally Cap Space and if the draft pick is moderately successful career length because the traded player is usually post 25

I’m not ignoring trade fails, I’m commenting on taking kids in the draft and how 1st round picks aren’t automatic 10 year players and guns.

That every year a heap of highly rated kids, won’t kick on or will be a bust.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

People who are happy to get rid of Owies and Kennedy need to remember they kicked 49 goals between them this season. That's 49 goals we need to find next season.

So? Are we gonna play 2 men down because they're not in the team?

2 goals a game for a team that ended up being in the top 4 for points 4 whilst playing like shit most of the season. Not really a daunting issue to overcome lol.

 

[carlton_99]

People who are happy to get rid of Owies and Kennedy need to remember they kicked 49 goals between them this season. That's 49 goals we need to find next season.

Or making up 49 goals net - we went from a top 5 defence in 2023 to a bottom 5 defence in 2024 (based on points against). In that time we also went from the best side at defending stoppage to one of the worst. Fix that up with changes to the on ball rotations that include players that can spread from the contest (Cerra, Walsh, Hollands, Docherty, and other) and we should concede far less. Even better if we can pair Weitering up with a proper KPD (either Young or trade one in)

 

[Opium]

Such a Carlton thing to do to get rid of two players who played every game in the home and away season.

 

[Aphrodite]

Can someone please decode this?

No Cookies | CODE Sports

No Cookies | CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

Somehow that link won't archive.


This one is from the HUN

https://archive.md/YJJwx

 

[jj1978]

I'd love to know if the current delistings and rumourings of players asked to explore was the narrative of our list management as little as 2 months ago.

Akuei and Mirkov prob the real definites to get the chop and Owies a plan as no contract appeared forthcoming.

We've gone from having players such as Kennedy, Martin, Cunningham, Marchbank heading into 24 as best 22/23 in the coaches eye to now out.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

You speak as if trading in players is a slam dunk. Mcgovern, Williams, Cerra, Thomas, Martin. None of them genuine mids or key position, all high salaries and some first round draft picks

not sure what your point is...

Cerra is a genuine mid.... was 4th in our B & F last year. the hammy issue - hope they sort it...

No argument that we overpaid for the others you listed.

Well, not Martin, and most unfortunate his body failed him - at his best one of the best in the game....

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Kennedys kicks have way more penetration and accuracy but he is another that likes to long bomb into f50.

Hewetts kicks are generally more loopy (too high).

Not sure where this spin that MK is a bad kick comes from?

 

[bradfisher14]

Not sure where this spin that MK is a bad kick comes from?

It's not spin.

The 10 best and worst kicks inside 50 in the AFL in 2024, according to Champion Data

Champion Data's Daniel Hoyne goes through all of the numbers.

www.sen.com.au

The 10 worst kicks inside 50​

1. Matt Kennedy (Carlton)

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

"at the moment"...

Just admit Kennedy is the worst of the bunch and we're not going to trade Walsh anyway

Until this year, when Crippa tidied his kicking up remarkably (and with Walsh fit), i would have ranked them as:

Cerra, Kennedy, Walsh, Hewett, Crippa.

Now, Cerra, Crippa, Kennedy, Hewett, Walsh.

That doesn't mean i want to trade SW, they need to get his back right....

Not a lot in it, granted:

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

It's not spin.

The 10 best and worst kicks inside 50 in the AFL in 2024, according to Champion Data

Champion Data's Daniel Hoyne goes through all of the numbers.

www.sen.com.au

yeah, i've seen that... would like to see the underlying data sand the parameters....

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I trust Cerra to come out guns blazing next season. The doctor he's going to see this off-season is the same that Yeo and McGovern (the elder) saw last off-season and Yeo put together an awesome year after looking like he was cooked (played 20 games at a very high level after his past 4 years playing 10, 5, 12 and 10 games respectively) and Gov made the AA side after also battling injuries the last few years. Very good track record so far.

 

[Bletch]

Thought I'd take a look back at our consensus best 23 team (thanks JuddgementDay ) from the start of the year:

Prediction - 2024 - Best 23 + Emergencies - Rolling

Not in the inner sanctum, like the majority of people here Gamestyle, skill level of 2 scratch matches and a couple of open sessions? I wouldn't bother trying to rate it Injuries and flow on fitness, this time of the year compared to last year, massive improvement But, plenty of other threads...

www.bigfooty.com

FB: Boyd Weitering Marchbank
HB: Newman McGovern Saad
C: Acres Cripps O.Hollands
HF: E.Hollands McKay Fantasia
FF: Motlop Curnow Martin
FOL: TDK Walsh Cerra
INT: Williams Docherty Hewett Kennedy Cottrell

I do think if we'd had that team on the park for the majority of the year, we'd have finished a lot higher than 8th. But...

Anyway, from this "best 23" of this year, we're losing:
Marchbank
Martin
Kennedy (probably)

Additionally, from depth, we're losing:
Cuningham
Akuei
Mirkov
Owies (probably)
Young (possibly)

Haynes is the obvious replacement for Marchbank on the best 23.
Perhaps Moir on track as a like-for-like replacement for Martin's spot.
Cincotta perhaps the current choice for Kennedy's spot.

The likes of JCarroll, Lord, Silvagni, Kemp, Fogarty, Cowan, Binns, CDurdin will be putting pressure on the likes of Fantasia, Motlop & Cottrell, who I don't expect to be in our best 23 when we come to do this consensus thingy again at the start of next season. And that's not taking into account any other mature recruits, or significant progress from the development group (e.g. Lemmey, Wilson, O'Keeffe, Duffy, BCampo, LCampo, other draftees).

More changes to come obviously over the next few months, but will be interesting to see just how different the best 23 looks come next March.

 

[Aphrodite]

Further to my post above (post #5,014):-

Thank You Nick Haynes

The GIANTS would like to express their thanks to inaugural GIANT Nick Haynes.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[bourbons]

You speak as if trading in players is a slam dunk. Mcgovern, Williams, Cerra, Thomas, Martin. None of them genuine mids or key position, all high salaries and some first round draft picks

Cerra not a genuine mid?

Was ruined by injury this year but a pretty important cog when fit. Clearly our best performing mid first half of '23 when everyone else somehow forgot how to play footy.

 

[AB_Blue]

I trust Cerra to come out guns blazing next season. The doctor he's going to see this off-season is the same that Yeo and McGovern (the elder) saw last off-season and Yeo put together an awesome year after looking like he was cooked (played 20 games at a very high level after his past 4 years playing 10, 5, 12 and 10 games respectively) and Gov made the AA side after also battling injuries the last few years. Very good track record so far.

Should send our Gov there