List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[AB_Blue]

Dangerfield is still going strong as a bull mid. I think Cripps needs to model his game more on Dangers than what he is doing.
Too often Cripps is positioned to receive the tap and he is not moving through the tap zone. This is allowing his defender to scrag him constantly because he is not moving at speed to the ball.

I love what Cripps is doing for our team and this is not a knock just believe that he could be less banged up trying this technique.

Lord…….Cooper Lord

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I like the additions you’ve mentioned but having another year older Cripps, Hewett and Walsh as our starting midfield when we stunk it up yesterday but not only yesterday but the past 2 or so months fills me with even less confidence. The engine room is a big part of our problem imo

Switkowski can play genuine on ball minutes as a defensive pressure mid. Has for Freo a few times and imo is very underutilized in that role. Walsh at full fitness is a different beast to what we saw the back half of this year too, need to hope he can get a clean run through pre season.

I'd also like to see Cowan played through there, think his handballing in tight and tackling are almost his best assets at this level so I'd like to see it maximised more. Being a good kick in juniors is a whole different ball game to at AFL level, as is intercepting. I think he'd provide a line breaking power to our midfield mix like Trent Rivers at Melbourne.

Cripps
Walsh
Hewett
Cerra
Switkowski
Cowan

Still not perfect, but it provides a few different options rather than just a the same line up with different names while we have Kennedy, Cerra and Hewett all together. Think thats the best we can hope for before Cody Walker comes along, 4 core mids with rotations from some half backs and half forwards who provide a bit of a different look.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I would literally pay per interview to be allowed to watch on a camera the list team and Vossy giving it to them

I’d pay double to hear them give it back to him

 

[jj1978]

I’d pay double to hear them give it back to him

Voss to player X: "Mate, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your time is up at the club".
X: "What do you mean?"
Voss: "Well you haven't gotten to work?"
X: "Huh, I've showed up every training session and rehab on time and put in 100%"
Voss: "Don't think you understand what I mean there."
X: "None of us understand half the things you go on about, we just nod our heads to be polite and show the humbleness that is our clubs mantra".
Voss: "Just don't think you've been consistent".
X: "Huh, one week I'm told to do this, the next that, get demoted the next and off to the VFL to play another role. Bit hard to show consistency."
Voss: "I meant to say you haven't found the best version of yourself, and I think you'll find it elsewhere".
X: "Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's nigh on impossible to ever be perfect and find the best version consistently. Our best version today might not be the required best version of how the game evolves tomorrow. Thus you're always going to need to find a better or different version of yourself."
Voss (pointing out the window): "A car thief".

X, turns their head... door slams... Voss is gone.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Sure there a players in the League with high footy IQ, and there are players with less.
But the sheer amount of moronic decisions we make on field has to be about not being well drilled enough.

I reckon we have a lot of low IQ players or players who try to do too much and in doing so break the “team rules”. Voss often talks about “failure to execute” post game when we lose so I reckon that’s what he’s referencing.

It also doesn’t help when the some of the repeat offenders are players like Walsh and Charlie who aren’t exactly going to be dropped as punishment. There’s a lot of things that can be pinged on Voss but I’m not sure that this is one of them.

 

[Foucault1989]

The best thing about this loss is that it stamps the needs of our list firmly and squarely on the middle of the forhead of our coaches and list management.

I don't know how I have been aware of the problems of our midfield for 3 years now and nothing has changed. We have not recruited one quick mid who is good at applying pressure in that time apart from maybe Lord.

Out of Cerra, Kennedy and Hewett, 2 need to go. Unless we are getting nothing for them and can't land any decent midfielders that needs to happen. Slowest midfield in the league is not making finals next season.

We also need to float a few of the makeshift forwards. Fantasia, Durdin, Fogarty and Cottrell are not proper forwards and do not have the skills or the smarts to play as forwards. E Hollands is a midfielder who is not being played in the midfield and so is Kennedy.

There are a lot of teams who went past us this season and there will be a lot more who will go past us next season.

Problem is the coach rates his slow team and overrates too many of the players who are the problem.

Midfielders who don't lay good tackle numbers aren't good midfielders.

The one I would keep is Hewett.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Charges the ball forward from the contest…that’s what made our forward handball game
elite through the first half of the season

Seems so simple right?

 

[circusdevil]

Could Boyd play through the middle? Has pace. Good kick. Bit of mongrel in him...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Voss to player X: "Mate, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your time is up at the club".
X: "What do you mean?"
Voss: "Well you haven't gotten to work?"
X: "Huh, I've showed up every training session and rehab on time and put in 100%"
Voss: "Don't think you understand what I mean there."
X: "None of us understand half the things you go on about, we just nod our heads to be polite and show the humbleness that is our clubs mantra".
Voss: "Just don't think you've been consistent".
X: "Huh, one week I'm told to do this, the next that, get demoted the next and off to the VFL to play another role. Bit hard to show consistency."
Voss: "I meant to say you haven't found the best version of yourself, and I think you'll find it elsewhere".
X: "Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's nigh on impossible to ever be perfect and find the best version consistently. Our best version today might not be the required best version of how the game evolves tomorrow. Thus you're always going to need to find a better or different version of yourself."
Voss (pointing out the window): "A car thief".

X, turns their head... door slams... Voss is gone.

Think it would be more like...

Voss to player X: Mate, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your defensive running is insipid and you couldn't hit a target by foot if your life depended on it
X: I kicked 3 goals against so and so once though!
Voss: As they always say on The Apprentice, you're fired.

Rinse and repeat for the entire small forward group outside of Fogarty.

 

[KnobHead]

"Get over his hamstring injury". Where have I heard that before?

So you’d trade him on one disappointing season?

Who else would you get rid of and bring in?

How would it make the list better?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jj1978]

Think it would be more like...

Voss to player X: Mate, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your defensive running is insipid and you could hit a target by foot if your life depended on it
X: I kicked 3 goals against so and so once though!
Voss: As they always say on The Apprentice, you're fired.

Rinse and repeat for the entire small forward group outside of Fogarty.

Player X: "But pre-game you're telling me this, during game Hanson is telling me that, and at each break Jordan Russell is telling me the complete opposite.".
Voss: "Ah also indicates you have no footy IQ, you're still fired!"

 

[Stamos]

I reckon we have a lot of low IQ players or players who try to do too much and in doing so break the “team rules”. Voss often talks about “failure to execute” post game when we lose so I reckon that’s what he’s referencing.

It also doesn’t help when the some of the repeat offenders are players like Walsh and Charlie who aren’t exactly going to be dropped as punishment. There’s a lot of things that can be pinged on Voss but I’m not sure that this is one of them.

It’s not (just) Voss, it’s the entire coaching group failing to drill the players enough en masse. Although part of it certainly the lack of cohesion due to constant injury change to the side, part of it is not being drilled enough for players to know where to position themselves around stoppage and contest, where to move to, where and when to release the ball.

Our appalling ability around defensive stoppages cannot be blamed on stupid players. It’s not that complicated of a game, we just haven’t been drilled enough.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Based on the scowl on his face after he got subbed out last night I would be happy to move Kennedy on, even though I have been a fan, need to be team orientated to be part of the future.

Bro, he had a child literally hours before the game and STILL rocked up to Brisbane to play, only to be subbed out half way through the second because of a match selection issue that everyone saw except the panel apparently. I'd be absolutely fuming too.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Could Boyd play through the middle? Has pace. Good kick. Bit of mongrel in him...

I’d definitely try him there.
This is one of the things the club needs to get better at imo.
Try other more pace players through the midfield eg. Boyd/cowan/wilson/cinc
We need to be more proactive/ creative with what we have on the list

 

[btdg]

I have a different perspective to those who think we should just be layering in speed or whatever bit pieces we can shake out elsewhere. I don't think you should copy the latest trend - instead, I think you lock down your stars and build around them, and in so doing create the NEXT trend across the league.

Having Curnow and McKay lends itself to a different game plan to Collingwood and so be it. We need to lean into our stars, evaluate the list and build around that.


Then when you evaluate the list, it is clear where the problems are.

Tier 1 players: stars (regardless of position) - AA calibre, game-breakers, etc. Can play any position, you build around them:
- Cripps, Curnow, McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Saad (although getting old). TDK possibly emerging here

Tier 2 players: non-star players, but veteran, high profile players, who typically play structural positions (key positions, intercept defenders, midfielders, running half backs, etc) around the stars. You want consistency here:
- McGovern, Martin, Docherty, Cerra, Williams, Hewett, Newman, Marchbank, Acres and arguably Silvagni. I would include Kennedy (but Voss uses him differently)

Tier 3 players: Role players. Can be best 22, or backups that you expect to be able to 'do a job'. Typically - can be general defenders, hff or wings, third talls/second key defenders, taggers, forward pockets, etc.
- Cottrell, Cowan, Motlop, Owies, Fogarty, Carroll, Kemp, C Durdin, both Hollands brothers, Young, Carroll, Cincotta, probably Pittonet (I think started the year Tier 2, but is firmly a backup to TDK now), Cuningham, Boyd, S Durdin,

Tier 4 players: typically developing/project players. If you are lucky they might get a game or two, but typically you are looking to the future with them
- Lets go with Lemmey, Lord, Moir, Mirkov, Binns, Wilson and the rookie listed guys

When you evaluate that, the things that jump out are:
1. I think we have ENOUGH Tier 1 players, but unusually, they are all 'spine' players. No wings, small forward, running defenders, etc. It's a bit one dimensional... fine when the game is on our terms
2. We have decent depth in Tier 3 players; they're fine, as long as they are only needed to play a role.

3. Tier 2 is an unmitigated disaster. Firstly, it's comprised almost entirely of players brought in from other clubs. We simply haven't been able to develop our own Tier 2 guys in eons (seriously - who was the last good B-grader the club developed from scratch? Kade Simpson

6

Kade Simpson

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

7.3

5star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

409.0

5star

D

16.3

4star

K

11.9

5star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

0.8

1star

MG

258.6

4star

D

2.0

1star

K

1.2

1star

HB

0.8

1star

M

0.8

1star

T

1.6

4star

?)
4. Tier 2 has been gutted by injury this year: Docherty/Marchbank/Silvagni/Martin as non-starters, McGovern/Cerra/Williams heavily affected, and even Acres running on fumes by the end.

All of our biggest issues stem from our disastrous Tier 2 IMO. Poor inside 50s? Slow? Low impact from non-star players? That's what happens when you get zero from most of your Tier 2 guys. Did Durdin/Motlop/Fantasia/Kemp look awful up forward yesterday? Yep, but they shouldn't even be playing at once, but with Curnow/Martin/Silvagni and Williams all giving nothing, well there they were.

Our successful runs across the past two years have coincided with Tier 2 being fit, healthy and consistent. Our worst runs have coincided (typically) with Tier 2 injuries. That's not surprising. those are the core of the team, and the type of player Geelong finds hidden all the time.

I don't totally know the solution, but our aim in list management HAS to be something like:

Goal 1: Build reliability and consistency in our Tier 2:

- delist/trade out the unreliable Tier 2 of the team. The most important 'ability' for a footballer is 'availability' and our Tier 2 has been awful. And with Docherty/Silvagni coming off ACL injuries, that's probably the limit on what we can carry in Tier 2 that is risky. That's Cerra/Martin/Marchbank/Williams/Cuningham all gone.

- Invest in young guys to fill/replace these spots, even if it means a step back next year (I don't think it does - younger, lesser guys in Tier 2 spots, but more consistency will get us to at least mid-table again). Layer Silvagni, Kennedy,

- DRAFT and develop the next tier 2 guys, and make this the biggest emphasis of everything we do. Ben Camporeale is a potential Tier 2 midfielder. Ok, but what young running half-backs do we have? What young KPD (not a limited stopper like Young, but who is the next McGovern who can intercept and set up play?)? Lemmey isn't cutting it as even a positional KPF? I think we desperately need to try and get TWO picks in before Ben Camporeale (one of the mids, and I think there is a single KPF this year who should be there at 10). Cerra + our Future First to Melbourne for pick 6? Then use our own pick 10? And add THREE potential Tier 2 guys

Goal 2: Consider remodelling our Tier 1 structure to get someone on the 'outside' so we are a little less one-dimensional. Some theoretical options include:

• Trade one of our Tier 1 guys for another Tier 1 who plays on the outside (ie: McKay for ????). Ok in theory, but these trades rarely happen anymore
• Repurpose Walsh to half back and into the Nick Daicos 'defender who runs wherever he wants and just racks up 35 touches)? Or Walsh to the Wing?
• Repurpose Cripps to half-forward into the Dustin Martin slot of "if I get a defender on me I go to the stoppage as an extra midfielder. If I get a mid tagging me I go to full forward. If I get a hybrid I take them to the wing and be a marking target, and then when the game is on the line I call my own number in the midfield and take over"
• Try some other ways of igniting our Tier 1 guys; Saad on-ball or on the wing in a more attacking role? Curnow to a utility role (on-ball, wing, CHF) and Harry as the deep forward?

Hmmm... a lot to play out, but that's where my head is at today after the awfulness of last night...

 

[Soapy V]

Could Boyd play through the middle? Has pace. Good kick. Bit of mongrel in him...

He could but IMO his best spot is down back

If we are going to make positional changes they need to be done before pre season starts and train in those roles

 

[Soapy V]

If fit our midfield is very good

Cripps is a star
Walsh is a star
Cerra is a star
Hewett is a very good workhorse

Elijah with a full pre season could be anything
Lord looks very good. Creative tough and classy

That is a heck of a midfield that can compete with anyone

Add Wilson who has leg speed and balance
Kemp who is big and could be anything
Charlie with midfield minutes ala Stringer but better
Cincotta has the toughness and skill to be a good mid

Can we add a Garcia, a Wicks to the mix or a top draft pick?

The question is can we get them all fit and will Voss trust anyone apart from his go to players

 

[Ninja Worrier]

We've missed Boyd's kicking...it's why I like Lyndsay so much, another way to break down opposition's defence

 

[Beyond Blue]

It’s not (just) Voss, it’s the entire coaching group failing to drill the players enough en masse. Although part of it certainly the lack of cohesion due to constant injury change to the side, part of it is not being drilled enough for players to know where to position themselves around stoppage and contest, where to move to, where and when to release the ball.

Our appalling ability around defensive stoppages cannot be blamed on stupid players. It’s not that complicated of a game, we just haven’t been drilled enough.

Ok the stoppage stuff is different. That is 100% coaching. I was talking more so about things like the following

• Walsh not lowering his eyes or running past for a handball under pressure
• Saad running himself into trouble to get onto his left side
• Charlie ignoring teammates and blasting away at goal,
• Young and Williams not bodying up on defenders in marking contests in our D50
• Ollie trying to keep the ball in play and couching it up to the opposition instead of just allowing it to go out of bounds and reset
• Harry giving away silly frees in our forward line allowing the opposition to relieve the pressure
• Elijah ball watching at kick ins only for the ball to find his opponent who’s got free out the back
• Corey Durdin flying for pack marks in our F50
• Motlop often being behind the pack in our F50 instead of front and square running towards goals

We have a lot of dumb players on our list.

 

[Monty1978]

I still strongly believe this is a Top 4 side with a good run with injury and a modern game plan

B: Docherty Silvagni McGovern
HB: Ollie Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cripps Binns
HF: Elijah Kemp Williams
F: McKay Charlie Moir
Foll: TDK Cerra Walsh
Int: Cowan Newman Wilson Hewett Kennedy Lord B. Campo Cincotta Fogarty plus some gun draftees and smart trades

McKay to play 2nd Ruck
Need X factor small fwd
Elijah needs to step up as mid

Need to start to move on from Saad Newman Hewett during year and introduce Lord Binns Moir Wilson as regulars

Names like Berry Sinn Garcia Wicks would help

I agree , we are a top 4 side … McGovern kicks that goal against Collingwood and kemp kicks that goal against st kilda we end 3rd , that’s how close we were and I reckon our season was average

 

[Stamos]

Ok the stoppage stuff is different. That is 100% coaching. I was talking more so about things like the following

• Walsh not lowering his eyes or running past for a handball under pressure
• Saad running himself into trouble to get onto his left side
• Charlie ignoring teammates and blasting away at goal,
• Young and Williams not bodying up on defenders in marking contests in our D50
• Ollie trying to keep the ball in play and couching it up to the opposition instead of just allowing it to go out of bounds and reset
• Harry giving away silly frees in our forward line allowing the opposition to relieve the pressure
• Elijah ball watching at kick ins only for the ball to find his opponent who’s got free out the back
• Corey Durdin flying for pack marks in our F50
• Motlop often being behind the pack in our F50 instead of front and square running towards goals

We have a lot of dumb players on our list.

We make a lot of dumb mistakes. I was screaming at the tv in frustration. Like why the **** would you handball to a player 1 meter away when you’re not about to be tackled?

But, a lot of these mistakes come from a lack of cohesion and confidence in the team (your Walsh, Saad, Charlie examples), and a lot come from lack of being drilled properly (your Young, Williams, Elijah, Durdin, Motlop examples).

I’d suggest that Geelong play smart footy not due to their recruiters having some brilliant secret IQ test, so much as their players being brilliantly coached and developed.

 

[DollarsandSense]

sadly….. I’m looking forward to hearing the outcomes of the exit interviews. A new era, time to look forward….. hopefully.

 

[macky99]

I agree , we are a top 4 side … McGovern kicks that goal against Collingwood and kemp kicks that goal against st kilda we end 3rd , that’s how close we were and I reckon our season was average

We cannot fall into the trap like last year that our list is good enough to be top four.
For the third consecutive year we have had various degrees of form lapses over the season, we are not at the point where we have some older players particularly in defence getting to the back end of their careers, we have a non existent front half in terms of quality small forwards & a one dimensional mid field, hopefully Voss & the list management team address these areas.
The scoreboard last night could have been much worse if the Lions kicked straight.

 

[Soapy V]

Told exit interviews will start Tuesday/Wednesday.

Expect some news by weeks end at latest

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

The answer I can give you already - we are going for a flag, but with an eye on the future as well.

The side still isn't that old, we are a top 8 side (the last 3 years we are about the level of a Western Bulldogs) so players will be interested in coming to us as well.

I don't think we have any players next year who will be falling away next year due to age, the worry is guys like Williams, Gov, Doch and even Saad get more injury prone again getting into their 30s. Players are usually playing longer now, and Cats and Pies have been 2 of the older premiership sides ever, so I don't think the age demographics of the list are a huge concern.

The problem with the names on that list isnt their ages. Its their quality. The names on that list arent winning us a flag..