List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Blue_Fusion]

We played the 7 other finalists 9 times in 2024 excluding the final when Owies didn’t play. In those 9 games Owies kicked 9 goals and did next to nothing other than the goals he kicked. Keep in mind that he kicked 3 against the Cats the 2nd time we played them and 2 against the dogs. So in the other 7 games against finalists he kicked 4 goals and again did next to nothing in all of those games. If he is not kicking goals he is giving nothing else really.

33 goals for the year is great and looks good, but it really appears he beats up on poor teams and when the heat is on against really good teams he goes to water. That’s not my opinion, that’s facts based off this year.

He leads at the ball and marks it and kicks truely which we all love, but I find it easy to see that his role will be taken by Kemp in 2025 and having 1 less small in our forward line doing nothing really when the ball hits the ground will be welcomed imo.

Other than his goals mainly against poor sides, his stats are really poor. I’m not saying our others aren’t poor also but maybe because they are younger and potentially have more upside, they aren’t being shopped around and Owies is.

I love that he grabs the C after a goal and seems to bleed Blue, but we need not settle for mediocre hopefully anymore.

Hard to argue the facts, problem is, our other small forwards were even worse or absent...

 

[Magruder]

Owies is not bringing us a flag
When he missed that open goal by kicking the ground I lost it

Shit like that happens and not the only factor in that game… but win that and say one of the Collingwood travesties and maybe we’re sitting where Geelong are right now.

Agree with you though. Really fine margins. Need to keep improving not sitting still.

Point is, trade Owies and we’ll comfortably find his goal output from somewhere
Increase in pressure /positional flexibility as a nice extra benefit.

 

[gbatman]

Bring in a group of good small forwards and hire Eddie Betts as a specialist coach. He seemed to get things going well at Geelong. He'd even be good for our tall guys as well.

 

[macky99]

Konstanty for F3?
Rosas as DFA?
Berry with Pick 11?

F1 plus Owies for Houston

l would not necessarily be picking Berry if he is not considered best available, Lindsay & Travaglia look to be very much in the mix around pick & both definitely look quality players.

 

[Soapy V]

l would not necessarily be picking Berry if he is not considered best available, Lindsay & Travaglia look to be very much in the mix around pick & both definitely look quality players.

I’m just offering options to get small Fwds. I’m not up on draftees like many others on here are

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Don’t tease me

Issue is forward lines are getting smaller and more mobile. Are we going to lock Kemp in as a forward with Charlie McKay Silvagni fit and hopefully Moir O’Keefe stepping up

I really rate Kemp and having him developed/play in the reserves behind some of the above would be a disaster for him and I certainly don’t what to see him in defence

He is now at age to step up. We need to do right thing by him

Agreed. I wanted us to adapt this model almost 7+ years ago when we were smack bang in the middle of the rebuild.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

It would be madness to use another high value pick on a small forward.

Even if Owies does go we still have Williams, Motlop, Moir, Durdin, Fantasia and cheap options at the trade table.

And to go out on a limb, I'm not sure playing four small forwards is our go. This isn't Transformers were they all combine to form Optimus Kernahan...though admittedly that would be very cool.

 

[gbatman]

List wise we are in a similar spot to Geelong the few years leading up to 2022. They lacked burst in the middle and genuine forwards. Were able to bring in Dangerfield, Smith, Rohan and Stengle as well as a few through the draft. They also brought in Higgins and Dahlhaus who didn't make their premiership side.

If Geelong failed to do that they wouldn't have won that flag, they would have sat mid tier for a good few years and achieved nothing.

We are in about that spot now. We will either sit around the bottom of the ladder for a few seasons before it's serious midfield time or we will recruit like this, like Geelong did and get ourselves into flag contention. It's make or break.

Collingwood did a pretty similar thing leading up to 2023. Markov, Hill, Mitchell, Cameron. Just a little tuneup that took them the next step from being a good side to a premiership side.

Where we go from here will be interesting. I think we will find it amazing just what a bit of an injection of quick and smart players in the right spots will do for us. What these two sides have done is a prime example of what is required.

I said this years and years ago when Ratten was coaching us. It's fairly easy to build a team that is one level away from a premiership contender that is capable of making and winning the odd final or two. The really difficult part is taking that final step and finishing off that team build. That is the really hard bit where a lot of teams get to and fail at. That's the part where we are at.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

The plan around losing Owies will be that Kemp or possibly Silvagni go forward and replace him in the third marking forward role and that we also bring in some genuine small forwards as well. This way we don't really lose we just gain.

I thought Coming off a knee there was a chance silvagni will go back but I suppose Haynes coming dismisses that ..
owies needs replacing with a smaller type ground ball player. Moir looks like the third hybrid fwd we looking for .. Mackay with a full list probably must second ruck

 

[Red_man2008]

I wonder which small forward still in finals are we chasing with Owies contract on hold.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Be good if some quality small fwd over the next couple weeks gets coked up on a night out and gets delisted

 

[Juddrockz]

Owies is not bringing us a flag
When he missed that open goal by kicking the ground I lost it

Ummm,he's not the first guy to miss an easy shot this season.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Jack Martin ASKED to be delisted and Austin agreed to it despite knowing other clubs are interested, so he does have some, albeit very little, trade value.

Why would Austin accede to his request?

Because the pick he’d be worth, would have no points value, so what’s the point?

 

[mjonc43]

100%

Corey isn't a small forward. Play him in the midfield in the VFL and see what he can produce.

 

[Soapy V]

It would be madness to use another high value pick on a small forward.

Even if Owies does go we still have Williams, Motlop, Moir, Durdin, Fantasia and cheap options at the trade table.

Don't agree. Of those you have listed Moir isn't small and the others have never contributed consistently or proven to be match winners.

The more this is discussed and the more evidence is provided I lean more towards making some tough decisions.

Williams needs to get fit and train pre sason as a forward. Injury prone
Motlop needs to get fit and focussed. Big year for him
Durdin I hope to see more on ball. Again needs to get healthy
Fantasia, although I thought he was worth the risk, just doesn't have it anymore
Add Fogarty. Another worker type that is more a midfielder

Not a group I'm excited or confident about in making us a dangerous mobile forward line.

 

[gbatman]

If you go back and look at my quotes during pre season and early season my comments were very consistent.

I couldn’t get a read on him. I said I can’t yet work him out. Austin loved him, but many recruiters didn’t. Just facts. He would do things that would amaze and then go missing and struggle to keep up. I stand by that

What has happened, and I have discussed, is that he has really improved and now looks ready. IMO needs another pre season but what has stood out to me in last 6 months is that he has the mental toughness and work ethic to make it

Things change quickly and I try and look at the facts at hand and try and find balance

Issue I have, is usual people (only a few) twist things to suit an agenda, keep pushing lies and never provide evidence. These are the same people that have bullied in the know posters off this site.

We all say things that could be wrong. Seriously, so what. Move on. Are people’s lives really that hollow?

It's amazing how often the really good small forwards are taken late in the draft. I think it's common for players who are genuine forwards to not be rated or picked up by recruiters. I think a lot of prominent people in the industry, and our coach and recruiters could be some of them, struggle to identify traits genuine forwards have and respect them.

I think you have to look out for a number of things and it's not always possessions and goals. For example, they win the ball in the area they are playing. Half forward flanker wins a bit of the ball at half forward and not high up the ground generally means they have forward skills and smarts. Getting the to drop of the ball a lot. Doesn't always result in goals but may result in contests, pressure, tackles etc. Linking up, forwards need to be in position when the team is moving the ball quick and link up. All things our forwards are terrible with.

Skills, little guys who are strong overhead. Betts was a prime example of this. Bobby Hill takes plenty of marks etc. Fogarty, Cottrell, E Hollands, Cuningham etc don't hardly take marks and aren't good in one on one marking contests. We saw Moir take a number of strong overhead marks and have seen it in the VFL. Brisbane's small and medium players smashed us in the air in the final this year. There is something to it. Leg speed. being one touch. Having good disposal. Genuine forwards have a little higher level of skill then your general player. We don't get that from our current forwards outside of Curnow, McKay and Moir.

I think the ability some recruiters have when it comes to selecting players who are genuine forwards is quite poor. A lot of them should be taken much earlier in the draft. I'm hoping Austin and Co have their eye in when it comes to picking them. A lot of coaches aren't very good at selecting and playing them either. That's why you see so many doing nothing at one club and move cheaply to another club where they are really good.

We have repurposed midfielders and a half back, they aren't proper forwards. They don't have those traits. We have selected midfielders in the draft and athletes and tried to turn them into forwards. It just doesn't work.

I think as we have missed the ball with small forwards we have also missed the ball with onballers. A quick side step, strong tackling, solid tackle numbers, quick off the mark, good run down ability and closing speed have all been neglected with our recruitment. Defensive traits and run and carry haven't been identified in our recruitment of onballers. Badly under SOS but also badly under Austin. We have recruited onballers on possession numbers and size I feel, which is not the modern way.

Recruiting is hard, traits are important and many key traits have been overlooked by our team.

Moir is a big win. I hope this is a sign we have learnt a bit and know what we are doing.

 

[gbatman]

100%

Corey isn't a small forward. Play him in the midfield in the VFL and see what he can produce.

I've been wanting this. Get his shoulder right and try and turn him into a Jack Viney type. Quick agile hard nut who applies good pressure, tackline and some evasiveness.

Smaller mids are in and have been for a long time now. Go through the premiers of the last 10 years and they are there. We are too tall in there. His short appearances in the middle back in 2022 were really good.

 

[gbatman]

I thought Coming off a knee there was a chance silvagni will go back but I suppose Haynes coming dismisses that ..
owies needs replacing with a smaller type ground ball player. Moir looks like the third hybrid fwd we looking for .. Mackay with a full list probably must second ruck

Moir is a genuine half forward flanker who can rest forward and have an impact there. Jack Martin like. He's a ground level and aerial player.

Silvagni will IMO be the ultimate utility. No set position. Part time forward, part time defender, part time ruck. He will play a lot of games in different roles next season.

I'd keep McKay as second ruck. Works really well.

Not sure Silvagni is best 22. Think he and Kemp are probably playing for the same position, Kemp being a bit quicker may get that.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Hard to argue the facts, problem is, our other small forwards were even worse or absent...

or you could blame the mids, Cripps aside, for going to water.... and delivering poorly - or not at all - inside 50.

There aren't many 30 a goal small forwards about... 33 goals ranked him #8 of the small forwards (and he dishes off a few too -15 goal assists this year).

And averages just shy of 3 tackles a game....

A few bloody harsh judges here me thinks.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

It would be madness to use another high value pick on a small forward.

Even if Owies does go we still have Williams, Motlop, Moir, Durdin, Fantasia and cheap options at the trade table.

And to go out on a limb, I'm not sure playing four small forwards is our go. This isn't Transformers were they all combine to form Optimus Kernahan...though admittedly that would be very cool.

get the midfield firing, consistently, and Harry/Charlie clicking, anyone can do well as a SF....

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Konstanty for F3?
Rosas as DFA?
Berry with Pick 11?

F1 plus Owies for Houston

Konstanty would probably be worth more than that given he was pick 15 and only 19yo - more like a f2 I'd reckon.

Either way, if we hypothetically jagged both Konstanty and Rosas, it would give us more flexibilty how we use pick 11. Berry may no longer be seen as a necessity so we could either go tall or someone like Dattoli who's a genuine forward/mid.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It would be madness to use another high value pick on a small forward.

Even if Owies does go we still have Williams, Motlop, Moir, Durdin, Fantasia and cheap options at the trade table.

And to go out on a limb, I'm not sure playing four small forwards is our go. This isn't Transformers were they all combine to form Optimus Kernahan...though admittedly that would be very cool.

When was the last time we used a high value pick on a small forward?

 

[The Fantom]

100%

Corey isn't a small forward. Play him in the midfield in the VFL and see what he can produce.

Dylan Moore from the Hawks said he was a pure midfielder and had to learn his forward craft and now he’s one of the best.

Credits Luke Brest for his improvement. Maybe Corey needs some luck with injuries and a good mentor.

 

[tommy43]

Still don't understand why we delisted Martin. Especially if there is reportedly interest in him. If nothing else, the token picks may have given us some points in case bids come earlier than expected for the Campo boys.
It's not like we owe Martin any favours. If anything, he owes us. Poor Austin. Very very poor.

 

[ctwenty1]

Anyone heard of any KPDs we are into?
Surely Haynes doesn’t fix it up…maybe the club is keeping Sam durdin because they don’t think we can get another mature age KPD?
Ideally
In: Houston, Haynes, Rosa’s, KPD, speedy mid (again would love hear who we are into), campo boys, pick 11
Out: owies (good trade bait and can turn him into rosas and a 2nd rounder), Akeui, Mirkov, Marchy, Martin, cunners, Jack Carroll (trade), Matt carroll

This is the way Austin should attack the trade period imo.
Trade our future 1st for two firsts from either swans or tiges (18,19 or 17,20) and use one of them and a future 2nd for houston, then use the other first rounder for a nice speedy inside mid from another club.

So trade our future pick 18, for current year 18 and 19

Like your thinking