List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[stavro#4]

If we land basically everyone do we feel like the caps full going forward? To be able to sign everyone including nas past 2027 we're going to need a lot of cash meaning we might not be able to attract others next year.

Full cap for 2026. So would need the draft.

But end of 2027 a lot of big earners including nas are OOC

 

[Broski]

So I guess this will be Ryan Byrnes trying to get into RSEA park next year

View attachment 2408971

Sadly, this isn’t far off from the truth. Saw Ryan this morning and got this on video:

 

[bergholt]

One thing that seems to be a little forgotten in the JSOS stuff.

Hes left and seemingly hasnt picked a club (assuming he has multiple suitors).

So it was THAT bad at Carlton for him that he wouldnt stay even though hes not 100% sure where he wants to go.

That feels like something that should be a media event at this point.

My interpretation initially was that he'd locked in a club but they were still in finals so wanted to make the announcement later

 

[NextYearPlease]

What would he cost in trade capital?

Just a salary dump for them. They'll probably throw in a draft pick like they did with Geelong a couple of years back.

 

[phantom13]

My interpretation initially was that he'd locked in a club but they were still in finals so wanted to make the announcement later

I didnt get that at all.

Frankly him basically confirming he was gone as he was walking back to his car was a story enough, most players roll out the standard "Yeh all good, sort itself out in due course" line.

 

[TheJackal]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

 

[sauce_head]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

Mitch needs to get a different teacher then.

 

[JG22]

I do keep thinking back to that report that came out about us presenting the future team to Nas without Windy in it (the Winderlich one yes), maybe we are planning to move him on. But since we've offered him a deal, it's likely rubbish.

 

[bergholt]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

Yeah I love his attitude and he'd be a great captain for the next gen but I can also see why he might be dispensable.

 

[Moquo]

I haven't seen anyone put in as much work into their deficiencies at training as I have Windy. Basketball was his main love until the end of Year 10 - he'd played footy but it wasn't his main focus.

Its easy to see Wilson and Garcia pushing crazy fitness standards but Windy was the OG of this new group. Here is a snippet of an article from 2022:

Those inside RSEA Park have been blown away by his competitiveness and professionalism at such a young age. He is often spotted in the ice baths after 7pm and constantly asking for advice on how to get better faster. He isn't going to die wondering how good he could have been.

Hard to argue with it. This isnt a slight on Ronnie and Zones as its still skillwork, but at the conclusion of every training session they are playing a game. Basically trying to get the ball past each other with scrubbed kicks and they lose a point if not collected cleanly.

Well whilst those guys are doing that and most others are inside already, you've normally got Pou practising his marking and goalkicking, Mitchito doing goalkicking and Windy doing hundreds of short, sharp super focussed 20 metre kicks with a trainer.

His game as a 22 year old has improved immeasurably, this young core group just can't afford to lose him.

I agree. I would think he is highly valued within the club, and is considered a leader.

 

[TheJackal]

I'm probably his biggest fan but if we can pull off getting Flanders in, its going to be very difficult for Carroll to get a game. Probably add Ronnie and Jones to that sentiment as well.

Its a brutal industry when it comes to this stuff, but putting emotion aside these guys probably have limited time left on our list.

I also think Flanders would be worthy of pick 11 or 12 in this year's draft - as much as I want to stockpile first rounders.

 

[On the Outer Wing]

Interesting that there isn’t any news on our exit meetings.

Particularly

Steele & Marshall with the rumours around them.

I heard Tom Morris this morning on SEN say we're not doing exit meetings, didn't know why, just said Ross doesn't do them. Adam Cooney suggested if the players are being given feedback throughout the year, then there's no need for them.

 

[akaifu]

I think the exit meetings are only mandated if you choose to have them

 

[TheJackal]

Mitch needs to get a different teacher then.

I may have laughed out loud a little when I read this. The mechanics of both Owens and Higgins ball drops are absolutely disgusting and don't seem to be changing any time soon.

 

[SnapShotHiggins]

Interesting that there isn’t any news on our exit meetings.

Particularly

Steele & Marshall with the rumours around them.

Only exit meetings for 1st years , they had medicals and today high-performance run down for break now not required till late November!

 

[SainterinSydney]

I think the exit meetings are only mandated if you choose to have them

I like the RTB approach. If you get to the end of year and you are shocked by the feedback you get in your exit interview, the club has serious communication issues.

 

[Teflon]

High risk is better then no risk, what would you rather crawl along for another 3 or 4 years & in the mean time Nas goes & Sincs, Wilkie retire, your choice & we still stay in what 11,12,13th spot.

Look I wasn’t having a go at the club and said I like them having a crack …I’m just not sure high risk is better than calculated risk is my point
IF in 2 years we’ve gone balls in and made stuff all progress but proceeded to blow up the list with 27 or out of contract in 2027 who struggle to see a future …Im not sure that’s the model
I’d like to be rich - I don’t bet the whole house on black in a 2 year window to get me there …
That said I agree we have to do stuff - what Id like to see is decisions that don’t leave us nowhere as we’ve done that eg Zac Jones type calls that we know chew cap for not much gain
I don’t mind TDK - it’s a risk but I can see the age profile and payoff
Aleer ??? Not sure he’s solving much
Ryan - clearly solves an issue but in 2 years at 31 ??
Guys like Flanders or even McKenzie make some sense eg IF we go nowhere in 2 years it’s not a bust …they’ve proven they can add to midfield and fit the age profile well
So happy to take risks but let’s plan those so there is life after 2 years as I’m more interested in us having a sustained run at finals not in for 1 year out next 4 sorta thing

 

[thekizzler]

View attachment 2408785

Dekoning and maxibon are all well and good but I want this KING at the saints

Bloke is a TWIT.

Not keen

 

[Teflon]

It is high risk.

I'm not sure how I feel about it all.

Jury is still out on Sos for me. Yes we signed Nas on 2mil a season but I'm not entirely convinced a better deal couldn't have been worked out sooner.

I'm hopeful TDK can be a gun but f*ck me it's a lot of money to spend on a ruckman.

Aleer doesn't do it for me.

Most excited about our young brigade... which includes Windy.

I eagerly await the insults I'll receive from some for not doing cartwheels yet.

That’s what I was saying badly ….i get it but gee …up in the air on how I feel what I don’t want is 2 years RTB out list in chaos “bad luck sainters….cap is rooted but we had a crack!!”
Gotta be smarter than that

 

[SnapShotHiggins]

I may have laughed out loud a little when I read this. The mechanics of both Owens and Higgins ball drops are absolutely disgusting and don't seem to be changing any time soon.

Obviously don’t know what you’re talking about Higgins 46 goals 17p a rate of 63% accuracy (in top bracket in AFL) improved from 52 percent last year but don’t let the facts get in the way of your story!

 

[Mystifly]

If you pull your out ..... it is the opportunities missed and what we over looked in one of the strongest drafts in years. Break in case of emergency players are 1980's thinking not current day list management.

Use Cordy as an example where did he get us? What benefit was adding him to the list over developing kid.

Cordy arguably got us to finals in 2023. He was playing full forward as the leading player, negating the oppositions full back, and being the General in the forward line. He barely cost us anything (no compensation for Bulldogs), and seems like he was a great fit culturally. He came back after his pec injury and held down full back in the VFL to relieve Barrat, which aids his development too.

 

[Teflon]

Look, it’s not science and more hope. But Ross thinks King adds 2 goals for us. Add in Ryan.

I’d hope 2 of Howard/Aleer/Jsos* save us 2 more.

You hope natural development says we gain a goal a game in development.

5 goal swing.

Based on our season that has us anywhere between 5-9 additional wins.

Happy with the logic and happy the club won’t die wondering but let’s also ensure it’s sustainable aka life beyond Nas and 2 years just in case our 2 goals up and 2 goals saves doesn’t work
Seems an awful lot rides on 2027 boom bust which makes me nervous as we know shit always happens

 

[Tom12]

I like...actually love...the clubs aggressive approach.

Time for us to hit the gas and bring our young core into playing for finals from 2026.

We can still keep building and developing our young talent, but overall our older group hasn't been getting it done over the last 2 seasons, super excited to see what we can do with a fit King as well.

Windhager has become overrated, showed alot in the back half but without elite disposal the club has to hold firm on a reasonable deal. Can't pay everyone.

 

[MrFoster]

Look I wasn’t having a go at the club and said I like them having a crack …I’m just not sure high risk is better than calculated risk is my point
IF in 2 years we’ve gone balls in and made stuff all progress but proceeded to blow up the list with 27 or out of contract in 2027 who struggle to see a future …Im not sure that’s the model
I’d like to be rich - I don’t bet the whole house on black in a 2 year window to get me there …
That said I agree we have to do stuff - what Id like to see is decisions that don’t leave us nowhere as we’ve done that eg Zac Jones type calls that we know chew cap for not much gain
I don’t mind TDK - it’s a risk but I can see the age profile and payoff
Aleer ??? Not sure he’s solving much
Ryan - clearly solves an issue but in 2 years at 31 ??
Guys like Flanders or even McKenzie make some sense eg IF we go nowhere in 2 years it’s not a bust …they’ve proven they can add to midfield and fit the age profile well
So happy to take risks but let’s plan those so there is life after 2 years as I’m more interested in us having a sustained run at finals not in for 1 year out next 4 sorta thing

The last rebuild had us recruiting:

Howard - Pass. Can do a job but error prone

Ryder - Win. Gave us fantastic service, one of the key reasons in us playing 2020 finals, single handly gave our poor mids a lift.

Butler - Win, our only small pressure forward at the time, kicking 30+ goals consistently.

Jones - Fail, flanker pretend to be midfielder, tries hard, but not good enough

Hill - Fail due to high contract and trade capital, harsh but true. Was to be answer to our poor forward entry / ball transition problem. Ended up becoming a nervous error prone player. Is only a cream on top type player.

This time we have:

Ruck: TDK
Small forward: Ryan
Mid: Flanders / Mackenzie
Back: Aleer

Difference this time is TDK is younger, and we focused on our major problem area in midfield and actually try to recruit true midfielders instead of a flanker (Jones) + winger (Hill).

 

[True Believer]

Seems odd to put in "Carlton have an opportunity to match" when they have said theyre not.

being polite.......