List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Except we’ve asked for pick 16, while West Coast has offered pick 23.

I misinterpreted your post thinking you were stating we had no leverage for pick 23.

Think that pick is an ambit claim. I can
understand West Coast digging their heels in, as they should. Reality is, there’s minimal difference between those picks come the draft. We’ve seen how much club draft boards changes at this point.

 

[martinson]

From a trade perspective Cal and Starce are both going , we're clearly not interested in coughing up whatever else is on the table, it sort of helps us from a salary cap perspective in the future , so we can't expect to be getting the world in return.

It's a matter of whatever we can get.

 

[Thomasno]

We were hit with a slap after the fact, the contract was re-negotiated following Daniher’s arrival at the Lions.

To my knowledge, no formal contract has been submitted to the AFL yet. It could reasonably be argued that the deal is still in the negotiation phase.

Except we’ll have an in principle amount agreed to with Allen and his management. We can’t reneg on whatever that amount is, so the only way to create a contract to hurt the eagles is to give him a smaller deal deliberately and then restructure it early into next year - which will be so incredibly obvious what we are doing it’ll be impossible to ignore

 

[Section 5]

Both Allen and Starcevich are restricted free agents yes?

As such they both fall into the same timeframe as indicated below left. Taken from the Players Association

My take being
Both Allen and Starcevich are restricted free agents, so the process is the same for both.

Just a matter of when lodgments are made within the timeframes mentioned.
Lions to lodge Allen contract. Eagles to Lodge Starcevich contract. Who goes first is the likely issue at present

So, 24 hours is the first timeframe after lodging a signed contract.

It will assume at this late stage that both contracts are made up but not signed.
I also assume both clubs are not allowed to swap contract information.
Leaks do happen though, so maybe both have an idea of contracts agreed, but not signed

It is possible the Lions know their offer to Allen won't trigger band 1 and Eagles have somehow found this out.
That does go against everything that has been reported in the media. That would be a definite issue for Eagles.

That's the way i see it anyhow. WC supporters may see it differently
We will all know soon enough

 

[Tom14]

Will Starce go straight in as skipper at WCE? Better than any of the mugs they have there currently.

Liam Baker looks like he tries hard so will be captain.

 

[BRAB]

I know you love draft picks my friend, if you're the Eagles you can't argue Starce isn't worth pick 16, then go on to pay him 900k a year.

briztoon is absolutely desperate to be unbanned from the west coast board and as such, is parroting west coast talking points until they relent

 

[RegionalLion]

I agree with briztoon in this situation 16 does seem like overs.

Directly Starce is worth every bit of 16 and more but this is a very unique and complex scenario. We are getting Draper and Allen in as FA - we shouldn't be getting anything back for one of our free agents leaving. The only reason we are is that WC don't want to dilute pick 2 - if Starce went to another club and we didn't match we would get nothing.

Thus it isn't really what Starce is worth as much as what else we can get out of the situation because WC is assuming they get pick 2 and don't want to dilute it. This is where 16 seems like quite a stretch IMHO. 22 seems fairer to get it done, maybe some other pick trades or Dev Rob involved (although Dom was coy on that - I think West Coast want Dev as a DFA to put in a rookie spot) - get an in principle agreement from WC to bid on Uwland and Patterson before Annable and that 22 as well as our current 19 both come in a spot or 2 as well when GC matches. Bid on Annable after those 2 to make the WC fans happy we have still paid up and it brings any other Eagles picks in a long way after everyone else matches and WC automatically move up from 23 to 22 anyway.

 

[briztoon]

I misinterpreted your post thinking you were stating we had no leverage for pick 23.

Think that pick is an ambit claim. I can
understand West Coast digging their heels in, as they should. Reality is, there’s minimal difference between those picks come the draft. We’ve seen how much club draft boards changes at this point.

West Coast have no interest in taking those picks to the draft. They want to trade up for Gold Coast’s pick 6.

If I was West Coast, I would be trading up asap and removing 16 & 22 from the board.

 

[twhowler]

West Coast's defence sees a lot of the ball. Starce if healthy is elite - can lock down a player while still rebounding. Great reader of the ball especially loose balls. Very good kick if not a line-breaking one. He'd be a great get and $900k ain't that much as they have a lot of young hence cheap players.

Would be very interesting to see how he goes in the midfield. I wonder if it would reduce the chance of concussion? 2 out of his 4 if you count the GF have been marking contests. He might be able to just stay out of big packs as a mid

 

[StevoJenkins]

I wish people would not bring up Tommy Cutler. I rated him. He went to the Dons and had a very good end of a season which meant they gave him another year. I thought he would then have a good AFL career but he was rarely picked the next year and was delisted.

Big, quick, but could not get the ball.

To be fair, I never bring this up to throw shade at Tommy. I don't really have anything bad to say about any of our past players, despite some of their feelings toward the club.

Tommy had the skills just never got it together, had some great moments and was a good player, at the time, for us.

However, any time someone mentions Dylan, I always think of the meltdown he had when we didn't at least get a first for Cutler, which then increased to getting 8 firsts for him. I just embellish the number to 45 because of how fondly I remember that melt.

 

[Elitek]

No s*** Starc is worth more than pick 16, and probably more than 900k/4 if he was your usual 26yo healthy stud. But you have to look at him like a player with 2 knee recos recently or off field issues w those concussions he’s had, one more of those & he’s probably done like those other examples.

He’s been a great servant. We would’ve got around 20 anyway for him if we didn’t have Allen coming. WCE could be nasty & bid on Annable if we burn the bridge. I doubt we’re going to be too greedy and push too hard for 16 or better.

Also, it’s not like we’re struggling & don’t have any good youth coming through. We’re in a sweet spot so don’t need to be too caught up in a few spots in a weak draft.

It’s arguable that adding to our elite reputation within the industry by being great to deal with for our player and club we’re dealing with could have more benefit than a few spots. Continue to impress free agents.

 

[JasRulz63]

West Coast have no interest in taking those picks to the draft. They want to trade up for Gold Coast’s pick 6.

If I was West Coast, I would be trading up asap and removing 16 & 22 from the board.

West Coast will need to give up more than 16 and 22 to get up to 6.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

I would try to get Bo Allan from West Coast if they don't want to trade picks.

 

[Elixuh]

briztoon is absolutely desperate to be unbanned from the west coast board and as such, is parroting west coast talking points until they relent

The old long con.

Gotta respect the craft.

 

[Section 5]

Below was part of my post on the main board
I used North (close to Eagles on ladder) and Geelong as losing grand finalists to Lions.
Any suggestions on what pick we would get for Starcevich to North
..............................................

I ponder the question if both players were out of contract and not restricted and or unrestricted free agent's.
What's a fair trade if they were going to say North (Starcevich) and Geelong (Allen).

Allen: X Captain, 26.5 years old, 105 games, 12 games in 2025 last game R14, 11 games in 2024, multiple injuries the last 2 years

Starcevich: 26.2 years old, 132 games, 14 games in 2025 last game the GF, 21 games in 2024, multiple concussions which is a big concern in the footy world now.

To be honest i have no idea of eithers trade value.

 

[briztoon]

West Coast will need to give up more than 16 and 22 to get up to 6.

Yeah, they’ll add their pick 37, but that wasn’t relevant to the discussion.

 

[briztoon]

Both Allen and Starcevich are restricted free agents yes?

As such they both fall into the same timeframe as indicated below left. Taken from the Players Association

My take being
Both Allen and Starcevich are restricted free agents, so the process is the same for both.

Just a matter of when lodgments are made within the timeframes mentioned.
Lions to lodge Allen contract. Eagles to Lodge Starcevich contract. Who goes first is the likely issue at present

So, 24 hours is the first timeframe after lodging a signed contract.

It will assume at this late stage that both contracts are made up but not signed.
I also assume both clubs are not allowed to swap contract information.
Leaks do happen though, so maybe both have an idea of contracts agreed, but not signed

It is possible the Lions know their offer to Allen won't trigger band 1 and Eagles have somehow found this out.
That does go against everything that has been reported in the media. That would be a definite issue for Eagles.

That's the way i see it anyhow. WC supporters may see it differently
We will all know soon enough





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View attachment 2448149

Except the Eagles are trading for Starcevich, so they don’t have to put in an offer sheet to the AFL by the restricted free agent deadline.

 

[briztoon]

briztoon is absolutely desperate to be unbanned from the west coast board and as such, is parroting west coast talking points until they relent

lol . I’m not banned there.

 

[briztoon]

Below was part of my post on the main board
I used North (close to Eagles on ladder) and Geelong as losing grand finalists to Lions.
Any suggestions on what pick we would get for Starcevich to North
..............................................

I ponder the question if both players were out of contract and not restricted and or unrestricted free agent's.
What's a fair trade if they were going to say North (Starcevich) and Geelong (Allen).

Allen: X Captain, 26.5 years old, 105 games, 12 games in 2025 last game R14, 11 games in 2024, multiple injuries the last 2 years

Starcevich: 26.2 years old, 132 games, 14 games in 2025 last game the GF, 21 games in 2024, multiple concussions which is a big concern in the footy world now.

To be honest i have no idea of eithers trade value.

For both players, injuries are the BIG factor.

Otherwise.

Allen has only had one good season as a key forward.

Starcevich is a lockdown back pocket. He might be the best in the game at his role, but he’s still a role player.

In a decent draft, I’d be p!ssed if we gave up more than pick 30 for either player.

In this draft, I’d still be p!ssed if we gave up a top 20 pick for Allen.


I don’t care about the argument that people say, “oh but pick 22 probably pushes out to pick 30”. Because in all likelihood it pushes out 0 or 1 spot before we have to use it to match a bid on Annable.

 

[Elixuh]

In a decent draft, I’d be p!ssed if we gave up more than pick 30 for either player.

Don’t do this Briztoon. You wouldn’t given up pick 29 for Starvevich or Allen?

 

[briztoon]

Two issues that haven’t been discussed here yet are;

That we’ll have to consolidate our later picks at some point during the trade period. With the Starcevich and Ah Chee trades, we’re going to have too many picks worth points in this draft.

Secondly, where the bid for Annable comes. I wouldn’t be surprised if Annable is the first academy kid bid on. I don’t believe any club would bid on any of the academy kids with the first two picks (unless we p!ssed off a club this trade period) but after that, who knows. I certainly believe Patterson at GC is being over rated in most draft rankings.

 

[briztoon]

Don’t do this Briztoon. You wouldn’t given up pick 29 for Starvevich or Allen?

View attachment 2448360

Depends on the drafts depth.

If Allen was healthy, he’s worth a top 10 pick. Right now he’s one ankle or knee injury away from being a more expensive Doedee, because he has a much, much higher likelihood of re-injury than a key forward with no injury history.


A healthy Starcevich is harder to assess. He’s a defensive back pocket who has demonstrated early in his career and at under age footy, that he struggles to find the ball if played in the midfield.

If you are building a team from scratch, his position is genuinely one of the last two positions on the field you would fill.

And as we’ve seen multiple times over the last few years, it doesn’t matter how good your back six are, if you’re team can’t bring the defensive pressure further up the field, the back six gets repeatedly pulled apart and scored on.

However Starcevich has a significant concussion history, and any team signing or re-signing him, is taking a genuine risk that is only partially mitigated by the AFL’s medical concussion coverage.

 

[mpal6]

From a trade perspective Cal and Starce are both going , we're clearly not interested in coughing up whatever else is on the table, it sort of helps us from a salary cap perspective in the future , so we can't expect to be getting the world in return.

It's a matter of whatever we can get.

For West Coast, it's unfortunate Starce picked them at the same time as Allen picked us. We have a way to maneuver it to a parity deal than take scraps or whatever offered.

For Adelaide, thankfully AFL has opened 2 years forward pick trading. If they don't want to trade first round this year, they can go on and trade first round next year or year after. Lots of options in play here, they are the ones trying to add missing pieces to their list and we can hold firm there too.

 

[buttermuffs]

22 for Starc and Dev. Worth 16 or more realistically but with his health concerns it goes down.

 

[Section 5]

Depends on the drafts depth.

If Allen was healthy, he’s worth a top 10 pick. Right now he’s one ankle or knee injury away from being a more expensive Doedee, because he has a much, much higher likelihood of re-injury than a key forward with no injury history.


A healthy Starcevich is harder to assess. He’s a defensive back pocket who has demonstrated early in his career and at under age footy, that he struggles to find the ball if played in the midfield.

If you are building a team from scratch, his position is genuinely one of the last two positions on the field you would fill.

And as we’ve seen multiple times over the last few years, it doesn’t matter how good your back six are, if you’re team can’t bring the defensive pressure further up the field, the back six gets repeatedly pulled apart and scored on.

However Starcevich has a significant concussion history, and any team signing or re-signing him, is taking a genuine risk that is only partially mitigated by the AFL’s medical concussion coverage.

I was against getting Doedee and don't really want to gamble on Allen either.
But the club was set on both and i expect us to get Allen.

Halfway through the year i thought maybe Allen is worth a try as he is the only KPF player we can get for nothing except paying way overs.
After our last period of the H & A season plus the final series Allen, became less of a must get in my opinion.
Why we are considering paying Band 1 money (media articles) concerns me especially when we have bigger injury free players to retain in the near future. Hopefully it's band 2 but realistically it should be band 3 in my opinion

Five on the bench also changes the dynamics in my opinion. How clubs use that will be interesting.

We all love Starcevich and i hope he can get a big payday as it's unlikely at the Lions.
The money mentioned is way over what he is worth, the same applies to Allen
Lions will haggle with the Eagles as usual but around pick 22 or 23 is fair in my opinion.

I posed the question about Allen and Starcevich in a basic straight trade situation and you mentioned around the 30 mark.
I really was not sure what it would be, but i suppose somewhere around the 25 mark is worth the risk verses who you would get at around 25 in the draft.