List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[Saucery]

While I remember, just a reminder that I chuck up relevant trade news stories into this thread so you don't have to listen to Trade Radio (which I also don't do).

 

[mattsmob]

I get the feeling AFL/Swann is going to blow this one up for West Coast by classifying Allen's offer as band 2 anyway.

That would be best case scenario and absolutely hilarious

 

[mpal6]

That would be best case scenario and absolutely hilarious

It's going to come a full circle of West Coast matching, Allen saying trade me anyway and then a Allen for Starcevich trade goes through. They can keep their pick 19 as well.

 

[dlanod]

I see a lot wrong with this post, but hope dlanod tells me I’m wrong.

I believe West Coast holds the upper hand.

West Coast don’t lodge an offer sheet for Starcevich, pushing him towards unrestricted free agency.

Once he’s a free agent they can walk him to the PSD.

We’d have to lodge an offer sheet for Starcevich to try and push him to the national draft, but Starcevich can decline our offer sheet, making him an unrestricted free agent.

Pick 2 has nothing to do with Starcevich, it’s tied to our offer for Allen.

We still have to put in an offer sheet for Allen, otherwise he becomes an unrestricted free agent, and we simply don’t have the draft capital to trade for him, and we don’t have any power of a PSD threat.

There's no way for Starcevich to become an unrestricted free agent.

If West Coast doesn't put an offer to him by the end of the free agency period he becomes the same as any other uncontracted player and requires a trade. Of course, he's already effectively got that status because there's no way West Coast is giving him an offer under the RFA rules because of the threat to the supposed pick 2. The PSD threat is possible but since we already have a contract offer in front of him he won't become a delisted free agent.

Given we haven't lodged Allen's paperwork, I am assuming we're threatening to structure the contract to not trigger Tier 1 compo (similar to how Daniher's ended up doing so after Essendon threatened to match) if West Coast doesn't accede.

Honestly I don't think anyone is particularly in the driver's seat as it's an unusual and somewhat unprecedented negotiation. Between Dev, Allen, Starcevich and later picks it'll get worked out somehow.

 

[Sanchez365]

The question I have around the Starce / pick 16 / salary dealio is this.

I think Starce is worth pick 16 if he has no concussion issues at all. I think a player getting paid 900k for 5 years is a pretty strong bet on WCs side that they are not concerned about his concussion issues (not enough to take the gamble anyways).

So it feels a bit rich they want to then try and underpay in trade value when the contract they are offering suggests otherwise.

I think Doms in the right here. But I also agree that the most likely scenario is the compo pick they got coming back out way as an "even deal".

 

[Tom14]

The question I have around the Starce / pick 16 / salary dealio is this.

I think Starce is worth pick 16 if he has no concussion issues at all. I think a player getting paid 900k for 5 years is a pretty strong bet on WCs side that they are not concerned about his concussion issues (not enough to take the gamble anyways).

So it feels a bit rich they want to then try and underpay in trade value when the contract they are offering suggests otherwise.

I think Doms in the right here. But I also agree that the most likely scenario is the compo pick they got coming back out way as an "even deal".

I think starce is worth pick 16 to a team like us - we’d happily give up a teens pick for a player of his skillset.

It makes no sense for the eagles as a rebuilding team imo. I get that they desperately want senior talent, but don't see the fit for a bad, rebuilding team to sink in that amount of money.

 

[dlanod]

In conclusion, players are lands of contrast.

But Geelong got all the sweeping plains.

 

[GenericUsername202]

God, if West Coast gets band 2 for Allen, I would laugh so ****ing much.

 

[dlanod]

We were hit with a slap after the fact, the contract was re-negotiated following Daniher’s arrival at the Lions.

To my knowledge, no formal contract has been submitted to the AFL yet. It could reasonably be argued that the deal is still in the negotiation phase.

Not renegotiated, you can't do that for salary relief on a free agent contract (which was why Sydney was stuck with a declining Buddy). Instead we extended his initial contract for two years at a lower rate, which while reasonable also got teams' knickers in a twist.

 

[Sanchez365]

I think starce is worth pick 16 to a team like us - we’d happily give up a teens pick for a player if his skillset.

It makes no sense for the eagles as a rebuilding team imo. I get that they desperately want senior talent, but don't see the fit for a bad, rebuilding team to sink in that amount of money.

I agree that it seems crazy, pick 16 and 900k for someone to play half back flank. Even if Starce is the best in the business.

It's only ever made sense for WC to go after him this hard because they plan to move him into the midfield.

I guess WC will be able to front load alot of that contract with their current list.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I agree that it seems crazy, pick 16 and 900k for someone to play half back flank. Even if Starce is the best in the business.

It's only ever made sense for WC to go after him this hard because they plan to move him into the midfield.

I guess WC will be able to front load alot of that contract with their current list.

Charlie was our first piece of the premiership puzzle. Didn't make sense until we recruited all the other guys

 

[Tom14]

Charlie was our first piece of the premiership puzzle. Didn't make sense until we recruited all the other guys

At least Charlie was a goalkicker - I'm more willing to give up draft picks for mids, forwards and key backs. Lockdown small defender is a critical role for a finals team and Starce is amazing at it - but I wouldn't be comfortable offering him 900k to do it.

 

[Nuggo]

Starce is probably going to play midfield for West Coast. Great get by them. When rebuilding you just have to get good players in, even if you pay overs. We did a bit but had to be done. Will be interesting to see how hard they push back or if they just get it done. We just get it done.

 

[martinson]

When you're rebuilding you have to start somewhere and for WC it's a matter of who you can get . Someone coming off 2 flags who is committed to getting back to his home state anyway is a good place to start despite any shortcomings. I don't see 900 as too much over the top if he's the right fit /age profile / character etc because what you're trying to do is establish a culture that's been lacking. The concussion aspect really concerns me however. I guess they've done their DD.

If I were to name my 5 favourite Lions players Cal and Starce would be in there so I'm really sad to see them go but hope that they prosper with the move because they gave a lot of sweat and blood for us.

 

[Pns_blister]

It’s way overs, it’s far from good business.

Acting like pick 16 is overs (will be later after being pushed back) is pretty interesting in my eyes. Dual premiership player, premier lock down defender in the comp who they are offering 900k a season to.

Overs is pick 2 for Weller. They handed out a better pick for Baker, who is an undersized defender with horrific foot skills.

Overs is the last word I’d think of if someone floated pick 16 for Starcevich, particularly when Eagles land pick two with it.

 

[BangyBangy]

It’s way overs, it’s far from good business.

Who says it's way overs? By what metric?

Here are all the national draft pick 16's back to 2000.

2024: Bo Allen, 2023: Will Green, 2022: Harry Rowston, 2021: Darcy Wilmot (sic), 2020: Lachie Jones, 2019: Cooper Stephens, 2018: Ned McHenry: 2017: Ed Richards, 2016: Todd Marshall, 2015: Harry Himmelberg, 2014: Sam Durdin, 2013: Darcy Lang, 2012: Jackson Thurlow, 2011: Tom Sheridan, 2010: Ben Jacobs.

Boy, it's just brimming with household names & super talent isn't it.........

Ed Richards & Darcy Wilmot are standouts, the rest? meh. The over valuation of draft picks is crazy.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Will Starce go straight in as skipper at WCE? Better than any of the mugs they have there currently.

 

[Pns_blister]

Who says it's way overs? By what metric?

Here are all the national draft pick 16's back to 2000.

2024: Bo Allen, 2023: Will Green, 2022: Harry Rowston, 2021: Darcy Wilmot (sic), 2020: Lachie Jones, 2019: Cooper Stephens, 2018: Ned McHenry: 2017: Ed Richards, 2016: Todd Marshall, 2015: Harry Himmelberg, 2014: Sam Durdin, 2013: Darcy Lang, 2012: Jackson Thurlow, 2011: Tom Sheridan, 2010: Ben Jacobs.

Boy, it's just brimming with household names & super talent isn't it.........

Ed Richards & Darcy Wilmot are standouts, the rest? meh. The over valuation of draft picks is crazy.

Yeah his take absolutely astounds me. Considering how poorly this draft is rated, which he is supposed to be one of the resident experts in.

 

[M Malice]

Acting like pick 16 is overs (will be later after being pushed back) is pretty interesting in my eyes. Dual premiership player, premier lock down defender in the comp who they are offering 900k a season to.

Overs is pick 2 for Weller. They handed out a better pick for Baker, who is an undersized defender with horrific foot skills.

Overs is the last word I’d think of if someone floated pick 16 for Starcevich, particularly when Eagles land pick two with it.

100%, speculative draft picks are way overrated when compared to proven performers with 5+ years left.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

If he were still here, he'd have an issue with only getting one first for Starce. If Tommy Cutler was worth 45 first rounders, Starce would be worth at least 44.

I wish people would not bring up Tommy Cutler. I rated him. He went to the Dons and had a very good end of a season which meant they gave him another year. I thought he would then have a good AFL career but he was rarely picked the next year and was delisted.

Big, quick, but could not get the ball.

 

[Nunez]

We would most likely lose Allen in this scenario as well.

It’s a hollow threat as far as I’m concerned.

Gold Coast took a Freo player just last year in the Rookie draft, that Freo planned to re-rookie. He clearly told clubs he wanted to stay at Freo or head back to Melbourne, but GC picked him up anyway.

It’s way overs, it’s far from good business.

I know you love draft picks my friend, if you're the Eagles you can't argue Starce isn't worth pick 16, then go on to pay him 900k a year.

 

[wantok]

I agree the value of Starc is certainly superior to a speculative 23 draft pick. The Eagles understandably want to keep 16 as part of their rebuild. Fair enough but they need to add some sauce with a future 2nd or better to give us some draft capital to build our points bank. Good negotiating by Dom going for the 16 it will ensure a win win for both Clubs in the end.

 

[BangyBangy]

I know you love draft picks my friend, if you're the Eagles you can't argue Starce isn't worth pick 16, then go on to pay him 900k a year.

Not dissimilar to the Crows offering 5 years to Ah Chee. A big smile appeared on Dom's face when Cal Twomey said that the Crows ruled out their first round pick being on the table haha.

Not saying we'd get that pick, but just an amusing situation where we'll offer someone a big contract because we value him so highly, but nah, he ain't worth shit in terms of a trade.

 

[Pns_blister]

Not dissimilar to the Crows offering 5 years to Ah Chee. A big smile appeared on Dom's face when Cal Twomey said that the Crows ruled out their first round pick being on the table haha.

Not saying we'd get that pick, but just an amusing situation where we'll offer someone a big contract because we value him so highly, but nah, he ain't worth shit in terms of a trade.

Yeah that chuckle by Dom was a very clear sign the two parties are not on the same page yet haha

 

[Saucery]

The question I have around the Starce / pick 16 / salary dealio is this.

I think Starce is worth pick 16 if he has no concussion issues at all. I think a player getting paid 900k for 5 years is a pretty strong bet on WCs side that they are not concerned about his concussion issues (not enough to take the gamble anyways).

So it feels a bit rich they want to then try and underpay in trade value when the contract they are offering suggests otherwise.

I think Doms in the right here. But I also agree that the most likely scenario is the compo pick they got coming back out way as an "even deal".

When you are trying to rebuild relevance, you have to pay extra for trades and player salaries. Just look at what is happening at St Kilda. They showed no mercy during the Yeo trade and should expect little more from us now. We hold the whip hand because we are the tip of the spear, dual premiership winners. We want for little, if they want to progress then they will need to pay the tax.