List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[dudeintheswamp]

So is today the day they announce the new contracts for Keeler, Nas and Windy?

 

[gringo2011]

The big one nobody is talking about is Phillipou. He is out of contract at the end of next year.

I have heard Ross speak a few times. Out of everybody Pou is the most desperate for success. He will not tolerate being in a crap side, it has also been mentioned he has struggled to fit in. He is a different cat, anf has high standards then have rubbed his teammates the wrong way at times.

We are legit staring down the barrell of losing Battle, NAS, and Pou over a 3 year window. Can't remember a side ever losing 3 out of 5 of their most important players in consecutive years.

EDIT: We lose NAS and Pou may as well fully gut the list and start from scratch.

Brisbane did, all their best young talent walked out on them. They started drafting country kids as a strategy. It looks like we need to do something similar. Interstate kids wanting out isn't sustainable if we are going to be bottom 4 for another 5 years. Kids don't have patience or like discomfort any more.

Maybe we need a local metro academy with free hits because we can't keep players.

 

[LennyHayes77]

Let Boyd, Webster, Cordy and Macrae retire, ditto King and Henry if they can’t beat their injuries.

You think players will just retire? You're lving in a fantasy world. A guy who's spent his whole career trying to play footy at the top level won't just retire because you think it makes sense list management wise.

 

[gringo2011]

But that's exactly what happens if you bottom out anyway with the FS and academy picks.

In 2025 there is no guaranteed way to get the required talent in the door. In 2005 there was.

Everyone talks about the dearth of elite talent at the club. But North and West Coast have not emerged from bottoming out. We will see how Richmond go.

Imagine if over the next two seasons King never plays again and NWM and Pou leave for insufficient value in return because of the AFL's rules (can't trade players against their will). There will be the usual suspects in the punditry arguing that this is only the reaping of sowing, but one could argue we will be as far away from legitimate success as Fitzroy was in their last couple of years. Does that look good for the AFL, with their new passion project on the other side of Bass Strait taking all their attention?

Brisbane and Melbourne turned their situations around with direct AFL intervention. Both have now won flags. Why them and not us? What did Melbourne do to deserve having the AFL gift them a CEO and a premiership coach?

Now we have the ridiculous situation where the media is criticising us for playing by the same rules as everyone else while also advocating for the changing of those rules. No one is criticising Geelong for doing the exact same things at the exact same time. Geelong get mentioned in a throw away at the end of that article about Fincher.

Bassat's gone full Peter Finch at the end of Network. About time. We can't sit back and just be the other team at 4:40pm on a Sunday any more. Fix the system. Never take a backward step again. Don't give the powers that be anywhere to hide when they screw us, which means public criticism.

Other clubs have done it. We are ****ed because of all the stupid list management decisions made between about 2003 and 2021. Mistakes made 5 to 10 years ago show up now. If we keep Windhager, Nas and Owens we should have three players ready to really step up into peak players. A year after that hopefully Phillipou and Keeler types, a year later Wilson Garcia etc.

We are only in the 4th year of smart list building. It's a investment that doesn't pay off instantly unless you already have a premium quality list.

The AFL should make the competition as even as possible but we'd not be struggling as much as we are if we'd just done sensible stuff in the past.

 

[stavro#4]

SAINTS’ PROGRESS ON WANGANEEN-MILERA DEAL
St Kilda remains in constant contact with Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera’s manager Ben Williams, with his retention seen as a key plank of the Saints’ stated desire to have the best Indigenous program in the AFL.
Wanganeen-Milera is weighing up bids from Port Adelaide and Adelaide about a return to his home state, while the Saints are committed to matching the offers put to the rebounding half back.
As this masthead revealed earlier in the year, the Saints and coach Ross Lyon are committed to driving the club’s Indigenous program to make it the best in the country.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
They currently have six First Nations AFL players – second in the league behind Gold Coast – with Wanganeen-Milera forming a big part of their drive to be the best.
The club hopes Lyon’s close connection with Wanganeen-Milera could be the difference in keeping in Moorabbin, though the SA clubs are coming hard for him.
One of Wanganeen-Milera’s closest mates at the club, Isaac Keeler, has always attracted interest from the two South Australian clubs.
Keeler is out of contract, but is likely to win a new one-year deal with the Saints.
St Kilda now has a dedicated Yawa (which translates to journey) room at Moorabbin where the portraits of every First Nations AFL and AFLW player to represent the club is displayed.
GIANT MOVES TO KEEP CULT HERO
Greater Western Sydney’s bid to move heaven and earth in retaining Leek Aleer is gaining traction even as he considers a four-year offer from St Kilda.

 

[The Punter]

Other clubs have done it. We are ****ed because of all the stupid list management decisions made between about 2003 and 2021. Mistakes made 5 to 10 years ago show up now. If we keep Windhager, Nas and Owens we should have three players ready to really step up into peak players. A year after that hopefully Phillipou and Keeler types, a year later Wilson Garcia etc.

We are only in the 4th year of smart list building. It's a investment that doesn't pay off instantly unless you already have a premium quality list.

The AFL should make the competition as even as possible but we'd not be struggling as much as we are if we'd just done sensible stuff in the past.

But our mistakes are repeatedly brought up by those who want us to shut up in an effort to get us to shut up. So in response to that, I would just say two things:

1. Bassat, please do not shut up
2. St Kilda people, don't help our enemies by joining them in making those arguments about our (inarguable) mistakes over a period of time

One last thing: all our "doing it right" efforts don't mean squat is NWM leaves. Because we still did everything right and it didn't matter. If NWM leaves, it proves it doesn't matter what we do. Doesn't matter where we draft. Doesn't matter who we draft. The system will keep us where it wants us. Which is why I have said repeatedly that it's a disaster for us and the league if NWM leaves.

 

[gringo2011]

SAINTS’ PROGRESS ON WANGANEEN-MILERA DEAL
St Kilda remains in constant contact with Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera’s manager Ben Williams, with his retention seen as a key plank of the Saints’ stated desire to have the best Indigenous program in the AFL.
Wanganeen-Milera is weighing up bids from Port Adelaide and Adelaide about a return to his home state, while the Saints are committed to matching the offers put to the rebounding half back.
As this masthead revealed earlier in the year, the Saints and coach Ross Lyon are committed to driving the club’s Indigenous program to make it the best in the country.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
They currently have six First Nations AFL players – second in the league behind Gold Coast – with Wanganeen-Milera forming a big part of their drive to be the best.
The club hopes Lyon’s close connection with Wanganeen-Milera could be the difference in keeping in Moorabbin, though the SA clubs are coming hard for him.
One of Wanganeen-Milera’s closest mates at the club, Isaac Keeler, has always attracted interest from the two South Australian clubs.
Keeler is out of contract, but is likely to win a new one-year deal with the Saints.
St Kilda now has a dedicated Yawa (which translates to journey) room at Moorabbin where the portraits of every First Nations AFL and AFLW player to represent the club is displayed.
GIANT MOVES TO KEEP CULT HERO
Greater Western Sydney’s bid to move heaven and earth in retaining Leek Aleer is gaining traction even as he considers a four-year offer from St Kilda.

Keeler should walk out if we only offer a year. Pretty confident that Nas is gone now. If we haven't announced it after this absolutely diabolical week he's not staying. Putting up pictures of the players seems to be patronising and cringe to me. That would be off putting to a lot of indigenous kids.

Good article saying he's a free agent though.

 

[gringo2011]

But our mistakes are repeatedly brought up by those who want us to shut up in an effort to get us to shut up. So in response to that, I would just say two things:

1. Bassat, please do not shut up
2. St Kilda people, don't help our enemies by joining them in making those arguments about our (inarguable) mistakes over a period of time

One last thing: all our "doing it right" efforts don't mean squat is NWM leaves. Because we still did everything right and it didn't matter. If NWM leaves, it proves it doesn't matter what we do. Doesn't matter where we draft. Doesn't matter who we draft. The system will keep us where it wants us. Which is why I have said repeatedly that it's a disaster for us and the league if NWM leaves.

He should rattle cages behind closed doors. It's for show otherwise.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

SAINTS’ PROGRESS ON WANGANEEN-MILERA DEAL
St Kilda remains in constant contact with Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera’s manager Ben Williams, with his retention seen as a key plank of the Saints’ stated desire to have the best Indigenous program in the AFL.
Wanganeen-Milera is weighing up bids from Port Adelaide and Adelaide about a return to his home state, while the Saints are committed to matching the offers put to the rebounding half back.
As this masthead revealed earlier in the year, the Saints and coach Ross Lyon are committed to driving the club’s Indigenous program to make it the best in the country.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
They currently have six First Nations AFL players – second in the league behind Gold Coast – with Wanganeen-Milera forming a big part of their drive to be the best.
The club hopes Lyon’s close connection with Wanganeen-Milera could be the difference in keeping in Moorabbin, though the SA clubs are coming hard for him.
One of Wanganeen-Milera’s closest mates at the club, Isaac Keeler, has always attracted interest from the two South Australian clubs.
Keeler is out of contract, but is likely to win a new one-year deal with the Saints.
St Kilda now has a dedicated Yawa (which translates to journey) room at Moorabbin where the portraits of every First Nations AFL and AFLW player to represent the club is displayed.
GIANT MOVES TO KEEP CULT HERO
Greater Western Sydney’s bid to move heaven and earth in retaining Leek Aleer is gaining traction even as he considers a four-year offer from St Kilda.

I think i'd throw Keeler a couple based on what we've seen from him this year.

 

[MightySaintas]

SAINTS’ PROGRESS ON WANGANEEN-MILERA DEAL
St Kilda remains in constant contact with Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera’s manager Ben Williams, with his retention seen as a key plank of the Saints’ stated desire to have the best Indigenous program in the AFL.
Wanganeen-Milera is weighing up bids from Port Adelaide and Adelaide about a return to his home state, while the Saints are committed to matching the offers put to the rebounding half back.
As this masthead revealed earlier in the year, the Saints and coach Ross Lyon are committed to driving the club’s Indigenous program to make it the best in the country.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera is one of the biggest free agency names. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
They currently have six First Nations AFL players – second in the league behind Gold Coast – with Wanganeen-Milera forming a big part of their drive to be the best.
The club hopes Lyon’s close connection with Wanganeen-Milera could be the difference in keeping in Moorabbin, though the SA clubs are coming hard for him.
One of Wanganeen-Milera’s closest mates at the club, Isaac Keeler, has always attracted interest from the two South Australian clubs.
Keeler is out of contract, but is likely to win a new one-year deal with the Saints.
St Kilda now has a dedicated Yawa (which translates to journey) room at Moorabbin where the portraits of every First Nations AFL and AFLW player to represent the club is displayed.
GIANT MOVES TO KEEP CULT HERO
Greater Western Sydney’s bid to move heaven and earth in retaining Leek Aleer is gaining traction even as he considers a four-year offer from St Kilda.

Surely we're looking to offer Isaac multiple years. We should shut up shop otherwise.

 

[The Punter]

He should rattle cages behind closed doors. It's for show otherwise.

Important people only act when publicly embarrassed. It is not possible for me to agree with your assessment any less. Behind closed doors is where they want us because then they can deny any communication ever happened.

The "lobby behind closed doors" approach gives as much succour to our enemies as when we bring up our past failings when the brokenness of the draft is discussed.

We've only won one premiership in 150 years. Perhaps we should play our games behind closed doors? We've tested that idea during the last couple of home games.

 

[Broski]

If we see an exodus of players like Nas, Keeler, Windy etc at the end of the season, then we are a real chance of getting 10k fans at games next season. I doubt it will happen, but the worst case scenario will stay in play until they re-sign.

Nas is the one I am starting to believe is strongly considering the move. Our form probably hasn't helped, but hopefully we can get him to sign a two-year deal and promise offseason additions that will move the needle.

However, his potential departure could rock the group, as Nas lives with Windy and is best mates with Keeler. This is the most important couple of months in the club's modern history. Screw it up and we are back to 2013/14.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If we see an exodus of players like Nas, Keeler, Windy etc at the end of the season, then we are a real chance of getting 10k fans at games next season. I doubt it will happen, but the worst case scenario will stay in play until they re-sign.

Nas is the one I am starting to believe is strongly considering the move. Our form probably hasn't helped, but hopefully we can get him to sign a two-year deal and promise offseason additions that will move the needle.

However, his potential departure could rock the group, as Nas lives with Windy and is best mates with Keeler. This is the most important couple of months in the club's modern history. Screw it up and we are back to 2013/14.

I'm having serious doubts that TDK will come, all it needs is Carlton to find a way to throw a bit more cash at him.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

A one year deal for Keeler wot? The kid's only 21 and has certainly shown enough for a decent contract I'd have thought.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I guess Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

is a case in point of why its not the end of the world to draft a HBF.

 

[L_W_P]

I'm having serious doubts that TDK will come, all it needs is Carlton to find a way to throw a bit more cash at him.

Nas is gone and TDK will stay.

That frees up enough cash to go for SOS' real target. The CHB option we've been screaming for. A bloke we will pay close to $2mil and probably make captain.

Captain... Jack.

 

[stavro#4]

They will all stay

TDK will come

People just need to find some calm and not be caught up in the noise of the last week.

 

[MordySaint]

We have tried that every decent mid tells us to go jump in the lake

Like who???

The Callaghan approach seemed after he signed.

The weight of the TDK signing is a massive distraction for the players.

What other club has had to deal with constant innuendo about their star player leaving and the largest contract in history on the table for a ruckman (when we already have a decent one)

I just wish the media would back off us, just once in a while.

 

[billings2paddy]

Other clubs have done it. We are ****ed because of all the stupid list management decisions made between about 2003 and 2021. Mistakes made 5 to 10 years ago show up now. If we keep Windhager, Nas and Owens we should have three players ready to really step up into peak players. A year after that hopefully Phillipou and Keeler types, a year later Wilson Garcia etc.

We are only in the 4th year of smart list building. It's a investment that doesn't pay off instantly unless you already have a premium quality list.

The AFL should make the competition as even as possible but we'd not be struggling as much as we are if we'd just done sensible stuff in the papast.

Exactly
Add our first rounder likely pick 4 to 6 and Kye Fincher to that list and as the investment starts to show we will be able to finally attract quality players to fill holes in the list.

 

[ARCHIE66]

Exactly
Add our first rounder likely pick 4 to 6 and Kye Fincher to that list and as the investment starts to show we will be able to finally attract quality players to fill holes in the list.

Do we actually have rights to fincher?

 

[Saints43]

They will all stay

TDK will come

People just need to find some calm and not be caught up in the noise of the last week.

I feel sure the TDK stories out of Carlton are the new president and CEO telling their supporters that they've done everything to sell the club to Tom but the money can't be matched.

 

[phantom13]

I was pondering this morning if I’m being harsh on what the list and competitiveness looks like so I checked out the team we rolled out in the 23 final against the giants.



Of that team only Battle, Gresham, crouch and Ross are gone and we pretty well let Gresham go. Battle depending who you listen to we didn’t exactly desperately try to keep him. Cordy would likely be playing if he wasn’t injured (as would king obviously).

It’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing in terms of the kids playing, on the one hand people will say it’s been driven by injuries and on the other people will say it’s the rebuild. Keeler is a perfect example of a guy who is getting a run due to injuries, if King is available he’s likely not playing, alternately Collard got 8 weeks in spite of very sketchy form (also butler was injured).

I think the issue the media is pointing to (which some supporters also are frustrated by) is that we do really seem to be sitting in the middle of a full rebuild/still trying to win games and play finals and those two things are generally completely opposed.

We very clearly had kids on the weekend that didn’t play ones when they could have and that opens us up to criticism.

We were all sold this mini refresh on the fly that might mean 24 was a dip but 25 and onwards was a build and for a whole host of reasons that looks pretty shot now.

Hopefully getting flogged on the weekend releases the pressure valve to keep trying to win and make finals and we can purely focus the back end of this year on development and progression and that 23 by round 24 looks vastly different to the Gws final.

 

[phantom13]

They will all stay

TDK will come

People just need to find some calm and not be caught up in the noise of the last week.

I’m not potting you but what makes you say this?

 

[stavro#4]

I’m not potting you but what makes you say this?

Complete confidence in the people I’ve spoken to previously about Battle at the club and others who get very good info here, that I know have been spot on in the past.

The only bit of contention I have with the 2 sources of information is Bergman.

I think the saints are lukewarm on him, but those I’ve put my info forward to on bigfooty seem to think we are almost nailed on to get him.

 

[phantom13]

I feel sure the TDK stories out of Carlton are the new president and CEO telling their supporters that they've done everything to sell the club to Tom but the money can't be matched.

I think his decision ultimately boils down to what he thinks he can achieve at Carlton. His marketability post footy as a one club player with a few bnfs and maybe a drought breaking flag is miles higher than if he comes to us, regardless of what he achieves. He can take the guaranteed millions more now or risk it.

From all accounts he’d much rather stay at Carlton but the money is too much, if the blues think they can shed one or two (McKay and Walsh seem candidates) and get a little closer to our offer I think we’re in some strife.