List Mgmt. 2026 List management - pt.1

[gringo2011]

Has alway been an elite runner, but even he has said his body is in better shape than it has been in years.
However it is his kicking, it seemed loopy and was putting it on the heads of players. Now it is more direct and hitting players on the tit.
And it is quite possibly the game style. The fasg transition to players one out and on the lead tends to redirect the type of kick
As I posted earlier, best averages since his third year at Hawthorn, but still some say he was a bad recruit. Lol.

Lucky you could use a calculator because you are quite thick otherwise. Hill can be a good player now but still be the wrong move when we spent 2 first round picks and Acres to acquire him.

We'd just bottled the rebuild based around Mattress, Billings, Newnes, Hugh Goddard, McKenzie etc. Instead of going back to draft hard we topped up like a side on the verge of challenge mode. It's taken 7 years to get him to a point where he's super valuable to the on field set up. Essendon has followed that model and getting similar results from it.

Since Lyon came back we've been running a much more professional set up with a proper footy department who have built the list through drafting and now topped up. Doesn't mean they'll get it all right but at least they have a formula that historically works in place. Last time was unplanned and unstructured and doomed to fail before it started.

This time as long as we hold course and don't do dumb things it is a lot more likely to get a decent pay off.

 

[The Punter]

Lucky you could use a calculator because you are quite thick otherwise. Hill can be a good player now but still be the wrong move when we spent 2 first round picks and Acres to acquire him.

We'd just bottled the rebuild based around Mattress, Billings, Newnes, Hugh Goddard, McKenzie etc. Instead of going back to draft hard we topped up like a side on the verge of challenge mode. It's taken 7 years to get him to a point where he's super valuable to the on field set up. Essendon has followed that model and getting similar results from it.

Since Lyon came back we've been running a much more professional set up with a proper footy department who have built the list through drafting and now topped up. Doesn't mean they'll get it all right but at least they have a formula that historically works in place. Last time was unplanned and unstructured and doomed to fail before it started.

This time as long as we hold course and don't do dumb things it is a lot more likely to get a decent pay off.

Hill and a 2020 third for Acres, pick 10, pick 58, and a 2020 second and fourth.

Not two first round picks.

 

[Sully111]

You are incessant. I'm not even interested in what you have to say. I wish I'd never got into conversation with you, your modus operandi is to wear people down through a barrage of dull retorts. Just stop now.

He has low self esteem

 

[Sully111]

I'm not sure if you are stubborn or ill

It's been eight games for TDK, you cooker.

Imagine if we all judged you after these last eight comments?

Darcy Wilson is still a St Kilda player and has not left.

You are literally arguing about things and making definitive statements about things that haven't happened yet

It's hilarious. It is literally pissing yourself. If you want to be skipper of the forum in that regard, I'm all for it.

Just put the captain's hat on and lead the 'stainy-ones' through the season

Don't shy away from it.

 

[texas_ranger]

Don't like our chances but glad we're being linked to Wilson, if he puts it all together he's going to be an absolute gun

 

[Teflon]

Don't like our chances but glad we're being linked to Wilson, if he puts it all together he's going to be an absolute gun

No chance

 

[gubby88]

Don't like our chances but glad we're being linked to Wilson, if he puts it all together he's going to be an absolute gun

about as much chance as you have of landing NAS this year.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Surely the crows entering the Darcy Wilson chase is a shameless attempt to bust our cap to help them land Nas

 

[Joffaboy]

Lucky you could use a calculator because you are quite thick otherwise.

Oh honey, you know how turned on I get when you talk dirty. How's Hill going?

 

[Joffaboy]

Don't like our chances but glad we're being linked to Wilson, if he puts it all together he's going to be an absolute gun

Why wouldn't you try to get a player like Wilson? Makes sense. Difficult to do but hat in the ring and all that. Have you got the equivilent of Jack Whitlock, who Port offered for NAZ?

Maybe North can offer Matt Whitlock for Wilson.

 

[Joffaboy]

Surely the crows entering the Darcy Wilson chase is a shameless attempt to bust our cap to help them land Nas

Like Bulldogs on Wilkie, like North on Windy. Good strategy from clubs.

 

[akaifu]

Why don't we just pay up?

I think we want to. It's just that he's not yet proven. Hence why he's starting to get CSB opportunities - time to start fulfilling potential to justify the money

 

[gringo2011]

Hill and a 2020 third for Acres, pick 10, pick 58, and a 2020 second and fourth.

Not two first round picks.

Fair enough. Apparently 2538 points out for 395 points in according to Draft Guru. Is that your platform? Pick 10, 58 in 2019 and pick 23 and 59 in 2020. Max Holmes and Kosi Pickett taken with the picks we lost. Get that drafting right and we are where we are now way earlier.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we want to. It's just that he's not yet proven. Hence why he's starting to get CSB opportunities - time to start fulfilling potential to justify the money

At 20 years old there is still going to be a lot of unrealised potential rather than pure output. Hopefully the club sees what we see in him.

It's bad timing with Tassie coming in and the Saints pumping the gas last year and forcing the market higher. To even hold players is going to get expensive. Clubs are going to have to earn their keep working out how to lock away assets while adding cheaper pieces to help fatten out the list. We should lock in our top priorities and then chase some MSD and VFL top ups.

 

[The Punter]

Fair enough. Apparently 2538 points out for 395 points in according to Draft Guru. Is that your platform? Pick 10, 58 in 2019 and pick 23 and 59 in 2020. Max Holmes and Kosi Pickett taken with the picks we lost. Get that drafting right and we are where we are now way earlier.

Assuming we develop Holmes with the same effectiveness as Geelong. I tend not to play the "what if" draft game with blokes drafted by Geelong and Sydney because they are both so good at developing players.

And Pickett would have benefitted from the environment we have at St Kilda now, largely due to the presence of Brad Hill.

There are other draft/trade moves I'd criticise before our 2019 record.

 

[akaifu]

At 20 years old there is still going to be a lot of unrealised potential rather than pure output. Hopefully the club sees what we see in him.

It's bad timing with Tassie coming in and the Saints pumping the gas last year and forcing the market higher. To even hold players is going to get expensive. Clubs are going to have to earn their keep working out how to lock away assets while adding cheaper pieces to help fatten out the list. We should lock in our top priorities and then chase some MSD and VFL top ups.

My guess is that the equation right now is that normally kids Wilson's age tend to either sign a 2 year deal (if they think they can get bigger money soon) or a 5 year deal (to take them to free agency). The problem is we as a club might not have seen enough output to offer big money on that 5 year deal, while the 2 year deal exposes Wilson to being a free agent for Tassie in 2028 where he can leave freely

Obviously in this scenario the preference would be to justify a 5 year deal on big money. And I think rolling Wilson through the middle will give us enough of a glimpse into his future that would consolidate that - rather than keeping him on a wing/HF role where his ceiling is always going to be capped and offering big money wouldn't make much sense

 

[gringo2011]

Assuming we develop Holmes with the same effectiveness as Geelong. I tend not to play the "what if" draft game with blokes drafted by Geelong and Sydney because they are both so good at developing players.

And Pickett would have benefitted from the environment we have at St Kilda now, largely due to the presence of Brad Hill.

There are other draft/trade moves I'd criticise before our 2019 record.

It was just the wrong time to top up while the rebuild we had just done had obviously failed. It was the time to draft hard and not extended the mediocrity cycle. It would have been wise to draft hard, spend a couple of seasons in the bottom 4 and jumped back up fast.

We were an older side full of average talent with no scope for internal improvement. Pretty much identical to Essendon now. Hoping for miracles while doing acts of desperation to hide from fans anger. We ended up having to do it anyway but it prolonged the whole thing.

I think the best thing about Lyon is he came with planning and structure. We were drifting along without a direction before.

Geelong and Sydney are great systems but they still both draft good talent and then fit it in to what they need from them. Good players look a bit less in their sides because they are in defined roles. Lyon used to do that a fair bit back in the day too.

The whole period from pretty much when John Beverage went to when Toce arrived was the worst drafting and trading of any club in the equalisation era. Plenty of examples of worse moves. Doesn't make it a good move still.

 

[gringo2011]

My guess is that the equation right now is that normally kids Wilson's age tend to either sign a 2 year deal (if they think they can get bigger money soon) or a 5 year deal (to take them to free agency). The problem is we as a club might not have seen enough output to offer big money on that 5 year deal, while the 2 year deal exposes Wilson to being a free agent for Tassie in 2028 where he can leave freely

Obviously in this scenario the preference would be to justify a 5 year deal on big money. And I think rolling Wilson through the middle will give us enough of a glimpse into his future that would consolidate that - rather than keeping him on a wing/HF role where his ceiling is always going to be capped and offering big money wouldn't make much sense

I can see enough in Wilson to see that he's likely going to be a top 10 player at the club at a minimum. Probably top 5 and maybe only behind Nas if everything goes right. He's exactly the type you don't want to let go IMO. Even as an outside runner. They are harder to find than inside mids these days.

 

[The Punter]

It was just the wrong time to top up while the rebuild we had just done had obviously failed. It was the time to draft hard and not extended the mediocrity cycle. It would have been wise to draft hard, spend a couple of seasons in the bottom 4 and jumped back up fast.

We were an older side full of average talent with no scope for internal improvement. Pretty much identical to Essendon now. Hoping for miracles while doing acts of desperation to hide from fans anger. We ended up having to do it anyway but it prolonged the whole thing.

I think the best thing about Lyon is he came with planning and structure. We were drifting along without a direction before.

Geelong and Sydney are great systems but they still both draft good talent and then fit it in to what they need from them. Good players look a bit less in their sides because they are in defined roles. Lyon used to do that a fair bit back in the day too.

The whole period from pretty much when John Beverage went to when Toce arrived was the worst drafting and trading of any club in the equalisation era. Plenty of examples of worse moves. Doesn't make it a good move still.

There are tiny elements of the benefits of hindsight there.

Of course 2020 and 2021 were good times to bottom out in one specific St Kilda aspect: no one could go to the footy. It renders St Kilda's specific reason to avoid bottoming out (we're particularly prone IMO to an existential crisis initiated by being on the bottom, confirmed by our unreliable attendance when we are going poorly, and made worse by the AFL's proven inability to provide us with the support that has gone to other clubs like Melbourne and Brisbane), but the 2020 draft was a crapshoot for everyone.

What is commonly ignored in judging trades is the short opportunity. It's not like we can just go get Brad Hill any off season: he was available once. That doesn't mean the club shouldn't calmly assess the opportunity cost, and I totally agree with you that we have improved in this area.

So if the lessons have been learned, and Hill is in AA squad form right now (might be an overreach but he's been every good), I reckon we could just enjoy it for what it is.

And we wouldn't have that awesome jumper for the next three weeks.

 

[Sully111]

I'm so traumatised by the Nas saga last year I don't have it in me to go round again with Darcy.

If he leaves I'll sit on my kitchen floor in my undies with a bucket of KFC and wave him goodbye. That's all I'll be able to muster.

 

[gubby88]

I can see enough in Wilson to see that he's likely going to be a top 10 player at the club at a minimum. Probably top 5 and maybe only behind Nas if everything goes right. He's exactly the type you don't want to let go IMO. Even as an outside runner. They are harder to find than inside mids these days.

TBF, everyone saw that in Billings and Gresham as well....

then we paid them well on potential....and eveyone lost the farkin minds