Expansion 20th AFL team location

[Johnny Bananas]

People need to stop entertaining this fantasy that the league is going to rationalise Melbourne teams. The single fastest-growing capital city for the past ten years is Melbourne, and it's projected to be the fastest-growing capital city for the next ten years too. It has all the arguments for WA3 except the team is already in place and already has 50 000 members.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

But virtually no one in Perth wants another team. Not footy fans. Not the clubs. Not the governing body. And if the WAFL are against it, it has zero chance of happening.

Says who

 

[Walshawk]

Says who

Which part?

 

[GC2015]

People need to stop entertaining this fantasy that the league is going to rationalise Melbourne teams.

Why? The AFL has made it pretty clear over the last 15 or so years that they've attempted to relocate teams like North Melbourne and even your very own team is the result of a merged venture with a Melbourne team that was orchestrated by the AFL. They offered the Roos $100 million to move to the Gold Coast almost exactly 15 years ago and the board decision to stay only got up by one vote so it was extremely close to happening. Then they tried to push the Roos towards a move to Tassie and I'm sure they'll find another non-Victorian city to push North Melbourne towards once Tassie enters.

Above all else, Gil literally said "retraction" will stay on the cards moving forward when asked about whether the league will expand to 20 teams shortly after announcing Tasmania's entry. You can make any argument you want about Melbourne growing at a fast rate but 9 teams based in the one city in an 18-team competition is far too many. All you have to ask yourself is if a brand new 18-team league began tomorrow and history was ignored, how many teams would be based in Melbourne? I'd argue no more than 6, which would mean 12 or so based in other parts of the country. It certainly wouldn't be half the league like it is now.

 

[nut]

Surely Geelong

 

[Perry Pie]

Team 20:

Perth Sharks wearing royal blue with a black sash… reverse for the away/clash jumper

training out at Joondalup and playing out of Perth Stadium

All the infrastructure is there… stadium, talent pathways, training base etc

AFL could have this all up and running quicker than they could a Tassie team

Sort of, but...
Colours, nah. Blue is taken in Perth by WC. (Go simple, Maroon and white stripes?)
Nickname, Sharks, no belongs to a Freemantle team.

Somehow try to take the North of the city, some sort local identity. Joondalup works well. Affiliate with 2 - 3 WAFL teams, maybe? West Perth + Subiaco, Claremont?

 

[peetoo]

Why? The AFL has made it pretty clear over the last 15 or so years that they've attempted to relocate teams like North Melbourne and even your very own team is the result of a merged venture with a Melbourne team that was orchestrated by the AFL. They offered the Roos $100 million to move to the Gold Coast almost exactly 15 years ago and the board decision to stay only got up by one vote so it was extremely close to happening. Then they tried to push the Roos towards a move to Tassie and I'm sure they'll find another non-Victorian city to push North Melbourne towards once Tassie enters.

Above all else, Gil literally said "retraction" will stay on the cards moving forward when asked about whether the league will expand to 20 teams shortly after announcing Tasmania's entry. You can make any argument you want about Melbourne growing at a fast rate but 9 teams based in the one city in an 18-team competition is far too many. All you have to ask yourself is if a brand new 18-team league began tomorrow and history was ignored, how many teams would be based in Melbourne? I'd argue no more than 6, which would mean 12 or so based in other parts of the country. It certainly wouldn't be half the league like it is now.

Which other league in the world tried to merge its most successful team (which was having financial difficulties at the time.

Exposed as hypocrisy when it then bailed out more than one of its favourites since then

Which other league in the world merges teams full stop? And there’s plenty with a concentration in one or two metropolitan area

 

[peetoo]

Anyway the precedent gas been set for a state of the art stadium as a prerequisite.

Which area not already served by at least one or two teams will fork out that money?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Which other league in the world tried to merge its most successful team (which was having financial difficulties at the time.

Exposed as hypocrisy when it then bailed out more than one of its favourites since then

Which other league in the world merges teams full stop? And there’s plenty with a concentration in one or two metropolitan area

I get your point, mergers mess over a lot of people, but there are literally dozens of pro and semi-pro sports clubs that are the products of mergers.

Most were obviously early on, but there's still some pretty big later examples. PSG is one of the most famous clubs in the world and they merged in 1970.

It's lower level (the league Wrexham just won) but Solihull Moors merged in 2007.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Why? The AFL has made it pretty clear over the last 15 or so years that they've attempted to relocate teams like North Melbourne and even your very own team is the result of a merged venture with a Melbourne team that was orchestrated by the AFL.

You've answered your own question with the word "attempted". They cannot force North or any other club to move. North have no debt, unlike Fitzroy. They have 46 000 members. TV payments are much higher now than they used to be, even after accounting for inflation and the rise of player salaries. North are in no danger. If the AFL tried to reduce payments in an attempt to get them to move, there would be a court case and the AFL would lose.

And as I'm sure Roylion will be happy to tell you, my club was not a merger, it was a takeover of Fitzroy by Brisbane.

They offered the Roos $100 million to move to the Gold Coast almost exactly 15 years ago and the board decision to stay only got up by one vote so it was extremely close to happening.

Do you think they're more likely to vote to move somewhere now, with no debt, compared to 15 years ago when they had a significant debt? 15 years in which Melbourne has grown massively and North has been marketing itself in some of the highest growth areas?

Then they tried to push the Roos towards a move to Tassie and I'm sure they'll find another non-Victorian city to push North Melbourne towards once Tassie enters.

Except none of those places are as attractive financially as Tasmania or the Gold Coast.

Above all else, Gil literally said "retraction" will stay on the cards moving forward when asked about whether the league will expand to 20 teams shortly after announcing Tasmania's entry.

Gil is leaving. And he can wish for contraction as much as he likes, but he and his successor are unable to force it to happen.

You can make any argument you want about Melbourne growing at a fast rate but 9 teams based in the one city in an 18-team competition is far too many.

If it succeeds financially, it isn't too many.

All you have to ask yourself is if a brand new 18-team league began tomorrow and history was ignored, how many teams would be based in Melbourne?

I don't have to ask myself that, because I can concern myself with the facts on the ground instead of thinking in hypotheticals. If a league began tomorrow, a club like North wouldn't have 46 000 members, but it's today and they do.

You may or may not have seen this, a few years back when your club was doing worse on-field, I made many posts on here defending their right to exist in the league, against several mouth-breathers who wanted to move them to Tasmania. It always struck me as odd that someone wanted to kill off someone else's club even though they were in decent financial health. So it's a little sad to see that now from a Suns fan.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Which other league in the world tried to merge its most successful team (which was having financial difficulties at the time.

The J-League (Japan's top soccer league), merged Yokohama Marinos with another club while they were successful.

Which other league in the world merges teams full stop? And there’s plenty with a concentration in one or two metropolitan area

Where do you think the name "United" originally came from in soccer?

 

[peetoo]

The J-League (Japan's top soccer league), merged Yokohama Marinos with another club while they were successful.


Where do you think the name "United" originally came from in soccer?

I’m aware of that, and that even Manchester United had been bailed out at least once in its history

 

[Coolangatta]

Above all else, Gil literally said "retraction" will stay on the cards moving forward when asked about whether the league will expand to 20 teams shortly after announcing Tasmania's entry. You can make any argument you want about Melbourne growing at a fast rate but 9 teams based in the one city in an 18-team competition is far too many. All you have to ask yourself is if a brand new 18-team league began tomorrow and history was ignored, how many teams would be based in Melbourne? I'd argue no more than 6, which would mean 12 or so based in other parts of the country. It certainly wouldn't be half the league like it is now.

If I began the AFL from scratch it’d be 6 Melbourne teams, 2 each Perth and Adelaide, 1 each Geelong, Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Canberra, Tasmania, Northern Territory and North Queensland.

If I was going to expand to 20 it’d only be if NZ was under consideration plus a third in the south west region of WA. NT would probably play one game in the Kimberley region to cover that area.

 

[Le Grille]

One thing a WA3 side may do is alleviate the travel issue by having two more games in WA.

NZ and NT are fanciful ideas if we are arguing Tas won’t have the population the NT is more of an issue in that regard and NZ don’t give a **** about AFL

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Which part?

"Virtually no one in Perth wants a third team". That's pure hyperbole.

I guarantee there are more fans willing to support WA3 than any other prospective team in Australia.

 

[Walshawk]

"Virtually no one in Perth wants a third team". That's pure hyperbole.

I guarantee there are more fans willing to support WA3 than any other prospective team in Australia.

Your guarantee is pure hyperbole,

Do you live in Perth? How many people that you know are going to follow the new team? Are you?

 

[Purple Suit]

Your guarantee is pure hyperbole,

Do you live in Perth? How many people that you know are going to follow the new team? Are you?

You just countered hyperbole with other hyperbole while staring the argument with hyperbole in the first place.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We can all speculate how many people want a third team in Perth. What I want is actual facts. If some sort of entity is set up to campaign for a team, it'd be interesting to see how many members they get.

 

[Football Tragic]

Your guarantee is pure hyperbole,

Do you live in Perth? How many people that you know are going to follow the new team? Are you?

Didn't people say the same thing when Freo entered the comp? Port?

 

[whiskeytown]

Sort of, but...
Colours, nah. Blue is taken in Perth by WC. (Go simple, Maroon and white stripes?)
Nickname, Sharks, no belongs to a Freemantle team.

Somehow try to take the North of the city, some sort local identity. Joondalup works well. Affiliate with 2 - 3 WAFL teams, maybe? West Perth + Subiaco, Claremont?

Sharks is no problem if it features in WAFL and then AFL

In the VFL there is Coburg Lions s and the Werribee Tigers

WC current blue is is a different shade of blue… alternatively it could be a black strip with a blue sash (similar to rich and ess)

But agree… the best chance of making it work is a 2-3 WAFL team combined effort

 

[Barrybran]

Your guarantee is pure hyperbole,

Do you live in Perth? How many people that you know are going to follow the new team? Are you?

A new team anywhere is going to garner support. A LOT of people swapped from West Coast to Freo and Adelaide to Port Adelaide when those teams came in. The primary difference between those examples and, say, GWS and Gold Coast is an underlying support for state league clubs from those areas.

I think a team in Joondalup, Mandurah or Bunbury/Busselton would get a lot of support upon announcement. If there were a legitimate third SA option (I don't know that landscape) I think there’d be support there as well.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Your guarantee is pure hyperbole,

Do you live in Perth? How many people that you know are going to follow the new team? Are you?

I'll probably sign up as a member yes.

 

[whiskeytown]

A new team anywhere is going to garner support. A LOT of people swapped from West Coast to Freo and Adelaide to Port Adelaide when those teams came in. The primary difference between those examples and, say, GWS and Gold Coast is an underlying support for state league clubs from those areas.

I think a team in Joondalup, Mandurah or Bunbury/Busselton would get a lot of support upon announcement. If there were a legitimate third SA option (I don't know that landscape) I think there’d be support there as well.

Agreed… it’s all contingent on where the team is 10-20 years from now in an Australia of 30-35mill people

By then a 3rd WA team will be as established as Fremantle is now

 

[Barrybran]

Agreed… it’s all contingent on where the team is 10-20 years from now in an Australia of 30-35mill people

By then a 3rd WA team will be as established as Fremantle is now

This may sound a bit left field but is there anything between Adelaide and Melbourne/Geelong that night attract people? We have the same land mass as the US yet we all cram ourselves into the same handful of cities.

 

[SUNS]

NT AFL licence bid

Don’t know how many in the southern states have seen this, but there is a bit of work going into feasibility studies into an NT side.

I work in this space and can confirm that proceedings are a little more advanced then some think. Lots of work to be done, but moving forward constantly.

It is no secret where Andrew Dillons allegiances are placed when it comes to the topic of a 20th side