Expansion 20th AFL team location

[Canberra Pear]

Manuka is not in the CBD but it is reasonably central and there should be a tram passing within 1km by the time they get a team. You would need to knock down and rebuild the whole eastern side.

I'm so pumped to see what Manuka could become.

We should get the light rail within a decade, potentially as close as 700m from the ground. I'd love to see Fitzroy Street closed on game days to have a path from the light rail up to the stadium.

The oval is within walking distance of Kingston, the Foreshore and Manuka, all which already have great venues, but are continuing to develop. Other developments are increasing multi-storey parking options in the area.

Hopefully a BBL team can get the ball rolling on the stadium redevelopment.

In comparison, the rectangular stadium is in Bruce (Belconnen). Even if it gets a complete rebuild, it's still not really close to any substantial public transport or culture.

 

[Spirit Level]

I agree that the Melbourne market is over saturated but can understand why supporters would be fuming that their club has to go and not the weaker Suns and Giants who have big markets to themselves and may always be smaller clubs than North are.

I think we should go to 20 - bring in the ACT.

Maybe leave it at that if no one is going to throw mega bucks at the NT. And it would, would cost way more than Tasmania. It’d have to be pitched as something good for the Indigenous community rather than a profitable venture for the AFL.

If the NT ever did have the backing, then you could go to 22. Where that other club might be, who knows at this stage, fun as it is to speculate, although I still think you could build a Geelong of WA down the south west region. It’s strong footy country and there’s a lot of wealth down there.

Not sure it’d add to ratings but I think you’d have a club that could be self sustaining in a short while.

Supporters can fume all they want, no one club is bigger than the league.

It's not the VFL anymore and there isn't the talent to support 20 teams IMO, unfortunately some dead wood needs to be cut.

The Gold Coast and GWS were always going to be a slow burn but their growth potential remains massive. Where is the growth potential for North?

 

[Coolangatta]

Supporters can fume all they want, no one club is bigger than the league.

It's not the VFL anymore and there isn't the talent to support 20 teams IMO, unfortunately some dead wood needs to be cut.

The Gold Coast and GWS were always going to be a slow burn but their growth potential remains massive. Where is the growth potential for North?

I understand what you’re saying, I still think Gold Coast and GWS have massive potential but the naysayers already think they’ve peaked.

I think the AFL can support 20 teams, though. Canberra might as well get their own team because you aren’t going to be successful in relocating North there. The AFL tried moving them to Gold Coast and it didn’t work.

As many have said, the NT probably isn’t ever going to be viable. So after Canberra, there won’t really be any need to go beyond 20. An argument can be made that WA, SA, QLD and NSW don’t need third teams.

 

[Spirit Level]

I understand what you’re saying, I still think Gold Coast and GWS have massive potential but the naysayers already think they’ve peaked.

I think the AFL can support 20 teams, though. Canberra might as well get their own team because you aren’t going to be successful in relocating North there. The AFL tried moving them to Gold Coast and it didn’t work.

As many have said, the NT probably isn’t ever going to be viable. So after Canberra, there won’t really be any need to go beyond 20. An argument can be made that WA, SA, QLD and NSW don’t need third teams.

I agree, if we have to go the 20 team route rather than 18 it has to be Canberra.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Supporters can fume all they want, no one club is bigger than the league.

It's not the VFL anymore and there isn't the talent to support 20 teams IMO, unfortunately some dead wood needs to be cut.

The Gold Coast and GWS were always going to be a slow burn but their growth potential remains massive. Where is the growth potential for North?

I’d suggest doing some research about the work that clubs are doing before launching your campaign to kill them off. Here are some sources of future growth for NMFC:

1. Melbourne is projected to grow by an additional 2.7m people by 2050. Sure, we’ll be competing for their support against 8 other clubs, but that’s a hell of a lot of people.

2. The Arden urban renewal project (one of Victoria’s biggest) will literally be constructed around Arden St Oval and the NMFC over the next few decades.

3. North Melbourne’s Huddle Centre runs community and educational programs to support new migrants with integration. Many of the participants in this program are attending NM trainings, games and ultimately, supporting the club.

4. The work with the Huddle goes hand-in-hand with one of the club’s NGA zones, the City of Wyndham. Wyndham has a large migrant population and is amongst the fastest growing and second most populous LGA in Victoria.

5. If NM require a secondary market after leaving Hobart then there are opportunities for them to explore partnerships with other regional centres. Bendigo and Albury-Wodonga are two cities that have been suggested as potential options for North to play a few games against interstate opponents like the Dogs do in Ballarat.

6. Our club has eliminated an $8m+ debt and have recorded profits for the best part of a decade. Despite being within one of the poorest on-field periods in our history, we’ve achieved record membership during each of the past two seasons. Also, expecting to see some growth when our on field performances improve.

 

[Coolangatta]

WA3 is winning the poll.

I'd like to ask those in favour of WA3 what the team would be called, what its mascot would be, where it would be based, and why anyone would support them?

Joondalup is a popular choice but just how popular is footy up there? Do they have 30k West Perth supporters ready to jump overnight from West Coast to the Joondalup Falcons?

I've suggested myself before that the Perth Sharks would be a cool name, but it doesn't represent anything that's distinct. I could see kids growing up in the 2030s perhaps getting behind a team like that instead of the Eagles, but a 3rd WA team would likely be a financial drain on the competition for many years to come. I can't imagine them regularly cracking over 40k crowds from day one.

 

[Billy ray]

Perth Victorians
Logo a big V

All tickets $25 GA.
That will get the crowds in.
Be like a melbourne team. But in perth. But with melbourne prices

 

[VinnieB]

Given the distance the WA teams travel, I’d think having another team there or in SA would make things a little fairer for them.

 

[Coolangatta]

Perth Victorians
Logo a big V

All tickets $25 GA.
That will get the crowds in.
Be like a melbourne team. But in perth. But with melbourne prices

If they're gonna be Victorian like, might as well just call them the Perth Black Swans and have them wear the prison bars every game with a logo like this on the jumper:

 

[Coolangatta]

Given the distance the WA teams travel, I’d think having another team there or in SA would make things a little fairer for them.

I'm super pro expansion, I'd love to see ACT and WA3 as teams 20/21 and SA3 as team 22. But I think it would take years, decades even, for the new WA and SA teams to gain support. I do think a Canberra side would gain more supporters quicker than WA3 or SA3 would. That said, I can understand why the AFL would oppose it if the TV ratings just aren't going to justify it.

As for NSW and QLD, as much as I'd love to see more teams in these states if the Suns and Giants can stand on their own two feet, they'll need more than just better crowds and bigger memberships to expand, the TV ratings will have to soar. And they probably won't.

It's where Victoria seems to shine. They watch it on the tele, and why wouldn't they, it's still VFL-lite.

At the end of the day, as much as most of us bag the AFL about one thing or another, and they really did **** up the expansion of GC and GWS - I'm sure they won't do anything stupid if the ratings don't justify it.

They certainly aren't going to fork out billions for a NT side, I know that much.

 

[Engimal v3]

If you want to remove the weakest club then North are safe. By any measure they are twice as big as GWS or GC. Crowds, members, viewership. North aren’t even the smallest Vic club. Once they start winning again they will pull bigger crowds and ratings than the Bulldogs, as the have historically. WB have simply been better managed on and off the field for 20 years.

Yep, North and the Bulldogs have very similar membership numbers despite North not winning a flag since '99

 

[Canberra Pear]

WA3 is winning the poll.

It's interesting the difference between boards. Canberra is the leader on the industry board, but WA3's winning the main board. NT is trailing third on both.

I've suggested myself before that the Perth Sharks would be a cool name, but it doesn't represent anything that's distinct.

Not sure the Sharks could work for Perth. It'd clash with East Fremantle, who are already tied to the Dockers.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Perth Victorians
Logo a big V

All tickets $25 GA.
That will get the crowds in.
Be like a melbourne team. But in perth. But with melbourne prices

 

[Coolangatta]

It's interesting the difference between boards. Canberra is the leader on the industry board, but WA3's winning the main board. NT is trailing third on both.



Not sure the Sharks could work for Perth. It'd clash with East Fremantle, who are already tied to the Dockers.

Yeah, I'd be surprised if it was anyone other than Canberra or WA3. I thought perhaps a second Brisbane team affiliated with the Sunshine Coast was a sneaky chance if the Suns and Lions were to rapidly grow in the next 5 years and the Olympic Gabba was built. Now that's been scrapped, they have no chance.

There still could be a NT team using NQ as a secondary market. 7 games in Darwin, 1 each in Alice Springs, Townsville, Cairns, and Mackay. It's a lot of travel but the club would have a significant advantage in playing conditions. That said, they'd really struggle away and I don't think NQ secondary market cash would be enough to make up for the windfall.

I don't think a Northern Australia team would be more profitable than ACT and probably not even WA3.

Edit: and yes, there could be a copyright problem using Sharks. In any case, I still can’t see a team north or east of Perth carving out its own niche.

Now South West Sharks, on the other hand, would make for an interesting proposal for a 22nd club, assuming there’s ever a 21st that gets voted in. But I’m sure some sort of deal would be worked out so they could use that name, unless of course, it gets taken by the Sunshine Coast Sharks. South West Dolphins would still be pretty cool.

 

[WilloTree]

Perth Victorians
Logo a big V

All tickets $25 GA.
That will get the crowds in.
Be like a melbourne team. But in perth. But with melbourne prices

We already had one of those.

The Victorians played in the WAFA (pre-WAFL) up until its merger.

Interestingly, West Perth originated from the merge between The Western Australian Football Club and The Victorian Club (known as the Victorians) and took the name Metropolitan Football Club. It was changed to West Perth in 1891.

 

[LordLucifer]

I want to remove a club from Melbourne as the market is over-saturated.

Then I look at Geographical coverage, Footscray serve a purpose in the western suburbs and St Kilda serve a purpose to the South.

North is nestled up against powerhouses in Carlton, Collingwood and to a lesser extent Richmond. Combine that with being by far the weakest club close to the CBD and it's a no brainer

100% agree.

Relocate two clubs : Canberra Kangaroos & Sunshine Coast Saints

20th entity : North Brisbane or Northern Sydney

 

[Spirit Level]

I’d suggest doing some research about the work that clubs are doing before launching your campaign to kill them off. Here are some sources of future growth for NMFC:

1. Melbourne is projected to grow by an additional 2.7m people by 2050. Sure, we’ll be competing for their support against 8 other clubs, but that’s a hell of a lot of people.

2. The Arden urban renewal project (one of Victoria’s biggest) will literally be constructed around Arden St Oval and the NMFC over the next few decades.

3. North Melbourne’s Huddle Centre runs community and educational programs to support new migrants with integration. Many of the participants in this program are attending NM trainings, games and ultimately, supporting the club.

4. The work with the Huddle goes hand-in-hand with one of the club’s NGA zones, the City of Wyndham. Wyndham has a large migrant population and is amongst the fastest growing and second most populous LGA in Victoria.

5. If NM require a secondary market after leaving Hobart then there are opportunities for them to explore partnerships with other regional centres. Bendigo and Albury-Wodonga are two cities that have been suggested as potential options for North to play a few games against interstate opponents like the Dogs do in Ballarat.

6. Our club has eliminated an $8m+ debt and have recorded profits for the best part of a decade. Despite being within one of the poorest on-field periods in our history, we’ve achieved record membership during each of the past two seasons. Also, expecting to see some growth when our on field performances improve.

That's all nice and rosy but it doesn't address the fact that

• The concentration of teams in Melbourne is too high (half of the "national" competition located in one city, it's silly)
• North are geographically based right next to 3 huge teams, it doesn't make sense for so many teams in such a tight geographical area (even with deals in regional centres they're still "North Melbourne".
• North still have the lowest member count of every Victorian team and serve the smallest area in Victoria.
• 20 teams is too many, the talent pool is diluted enough already. 19 teams seems weird

 

[Coolangatta]

That's all nice and rosy but it doesn't address the fact that

• The concentration of teams in Melbourne is too high (half of the "national" competition located in one city, it's silly)
• North are geographically based right next to 3 huge teams, it doesn't make sense for so many teams in such a tight geographical area (even with deals in regional centres they're still "North Melbourne".
• North still have the lowest member count of every Victorian team and serve the smallest area in Victoria.
• 20 teams is too many, the talent pool is diluted enough already. 19 teams seems weird

Should've started off in 1987 with 8 teams in Victoria and 1 each in WA, SA, NSW, QLD, TAS, and ACT.

Add 2nd teams to WA and SA in the 90s (which they did).

Add 2nd teams to NSW and QLD in the 2010s (which they also did).

Essentially, we could've already had Tasmania and Canberra in exchange for two less Victorian teams and there wouldn't be any talk whatsoever today of a 19th team in the near future, let alone a 20th.

 

[Walshawk]

I want to remove a club from Melbourne as the market is over-saturated.

Then I look at Geographical coverage, Footscray serve a purpose in the western suburbs and St Kilda serve a purpose to the South.

North is nestled up against powerhouses in Carlton, Collingwood and to a lesser extent Richmond. Combine that with being by far the weakest club close to the CBD and it's a no brainer

Melbourne doesn’t work like that. Clubs supporters are spread fairly evenly across the city. Where a club trains or what they are called only make a small difference.

 

[Walshawk]

Should've started off in 1987 with 8 teams in Victoria and 1 each in WA, SA, NSW, QLD, TAS, and ACT.

Add 2nd teams to WA and SA in the 90s (which they did).

Add 2nd teams to NSW and QLD in the 2010s (which they also did).

Essentially, we could've already had Tasmania and Canberra in exchange for two less Victorian teams and there wouldn't be any talk whatsoever today of a 19th team in the near future, let alone a 20th.

Nah. Instead of pushing North to the GC in 2006, they should have gone with the North Sydney Kangaroos. Reckon it would have got up. Much closer to home, still North, still the Kangaroos. Same jumper.

No one in Western Sydney is ever going to follow AFL. Dividing the city on a north v south basis would have worked much better.

Then Tas and GC come in at 17 & 18th teams in 2011/12.

 

[Coolangatta]

Nah. Instead of pushing North to the GC in 2006, they should have gone with the North Sydney Kangaroos. Reckon it would have got up. Much closer to home, still North, still the Kangaroos. Same jumper.

No one in Western Sydney is ever going to follow AFL. Dividing the city on a north v south basis would have worked much better.

Then Tas and GC come in at 17 & 18th teams in 2011/12.

Interesting. What about Canberra, though? Or would they have already been in the competition? There’s a team called Ainslie with the same colours as the Saints. Maybe a Saints relocation to Canberra could have been done.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

The concentration of teams in Melbourne is too high (half of the "national" competition located in one city, it's silly)

Culling clubs isn’t the only way to do it; the percentage of Melbourne-based clubs will also decrease when the competition expands. That’s my preference.

North are geographically based right next to 3 huge teams, it doesn't make sense for so many teams in such a tight geographical area (even with deals in regional centres they're still "North Melbourne".

Who cares if it doesn’t make sense to you? We’re talking about professional sporting clubs here, they can have their training base where ever they want. St Kilda tried to shift their geographical base further South down to Seaford, well away from where other clubs were based. Reportedly, it didn’t go too well, the players hated it and now they’re based back at Moorabbin. By your logic, North should knock down Arden St and build a new training base out at Craigieburn, so they’re in a growth corridor, right? What nonsense!

North still have the lowest member count of every Victorian team and serve the smallest area in Victoria.

This argument is flimsy. I reckon our membership tally has been decent. We’re only 5k behind the Dogs who have played plenty of finals footy over the last few years; not that far off your mob either. Melbourne and the Saints have also been way more competitive on-field than us recently. Easy to judge when our on-field performance has been shithouse for 5 years.

AFL breaks all-time club membership record

1 in 21 Australians is a member of an AFL club, with AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan announcing a new all-time AFL Club membership record of 1,264,952 members

www.afl.com.au

20 teams is too many, the talent pool is diluted enough already. 19 teams seems weird

Disagree with this too. There have been decent players come through rookie drafts, mid-season drafts etc over the past few years. There are new and improved talent pathways working across every state in the country. I think we’ll be fine long term. If you’re worried about talent then your club needs to get better recruiters or find a way to get better draft picks - I know of a club that could give you some tips in that space…

 

[Blue1980]

With Melbourne’s population going to be 6.4 million (up from 4.9 million currently), I think we are fine to be supporting the existing sides.

It’s just some people with a chip on their shoulder who want vic clubs closed down or relocated.

For the 20th side I’d be backing Canberra, but there is also no rush.

 

[Freomaniac]

With Melbourne’s population going to be 6.4 million (up from 4.9 million currently), I think we are fine to be supporting the existing sides.

It’s just some people with a chip on their shoulder who want vic clubs closed down or relocated.

For the 20th side I’d be backing Canberra, but there is also no rush.

Again I dont mind canberra coming in.

3rd WA side would work

 

[TheUnicorn]

I’d love an NT team as much as anyone having grown up there and knowing how much footy means to people there.

But anyone that has actually been there recently should be able to tell you it’s not happening….. it’s a complete mess at the moment. Many stores aren’t even open you have to wave at them to open their doors because they’re sick of being robbed, homelessness, begging, stabbing, gang violence you name it. It’s not safe to even walk to your car after work or visit your local shop and It’s only getting worse.

“Territory-wide, the yearly statistics show assaults over the past 12 months are up by 88 per cent from 2009 — up by nearly 55 per cent in Darwin, and a whopping 148 per cent in Alice Springs”

And it was already a rough place in 2009.


That’s without the travel and lack of resources, population etc.