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Expansion 20th AFL team location

Who will become the 20th AFL Team

  • Canberra / Australian Capital Territory

    Votes: 168 26.5%
  • Darwin / Northern Territory

    Votes: 114 18.0%
  • Newcastle / Northern Sydney

    Votes: 15 2.4%
  • Cairns / Far North Queensland

    Votes: 26 4.1%
  • Auckland / New Zealand

    Votes: 18 2.8%
  • 3rd South Australia Team

    Votes: 60 9.4%
  • 3rd Western Australia Team

    Votes: 205 32.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 29 4.6%

  • Total voters
    635

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WA3 is winning the poll.

I'd like to ask those in favour of WA3 what the team would be called, what its mascot would be, where it would be based, and why anyone would support them?

Joondalup is a popular choice but just how popular is footy up there? Do they have 30k West Perth supporters ready to jump overnight from West Coast to the Joondalup Falcons?

I've suggested myself before that the Perth Sharks would be a cool name, but it doesn't represent anything that's distinct. I could see kids growing up in the 2030s perhaps getting behind a team like that instead of the Eagles, but a 3rd WA team would likely be a financial drain on the competition for many years to come. I can't imagine them regularly cracking over 40k crowds from day one.
Nowhere is going to crack 40k from day one, and probably not even the 20k average Freo got in the first few years. Medium and longer term WA3 and even WA4 are far more likely to succeed than Tas, Canberra or SA3.
In the shorter term, yes, the interest will be small. There will still be more scope to pull in the vital secondary and tertiary sponsors that keep clubs running. Any extra team(s) will always stay smaller than WC or Freo, but still become mid-sized in 20 years or so. growth will far quicker than GC or GWS.
And for WA fans, it means more games without travel if there are more away games in the home city. (Although not if a promotion-relegation system was brought in, unlikely but makes sense to me at 24 or maybe 22 teams.)
For broadcasters it means extra games in WA, which means more prime time in the east. And there may be some WC fans sick of waiting lists who jump on WA3 quickly, whether jumping ship or simply to get access to AFL games. Some of the latter may well become attached to the team they get to see.

Joodalup-Wanneroo or whatever would need to have its own ground for smaller home games, preferably one with scope for significant expansion later on.
Perth City would perhaps be best that way for a while, but without the expansion needed at their venue as once they grow they can just move into the 60k one. There isn't a geographical distinction.

However, if going to four WA teams both new teams need to be introduced at once. That appears extraordinarily unlikely.
 
Nowhere is going to crack 40k from day one, and probably not even the 20k average Freo got in the first few years. Medium and longer term WA3 and even WA4 are far more likely to succeed than Tas, Canberra or SA3.
In the shorter term, yes, the interest will be small. There will still be more scope to pull in the vital secondary and tertiary sponsors that keep clubs running. Any extra team(s) will always stay smaller than WC or Freo, but still become mid-sized in 20 years or so. growth will far quicker than GC or GWS.
And for WA fans, it means more games without travel if there are more away games in the home city. (Although not if a promotion-relegation system was brought in, unlikely but makes sense to me at 24 or maybe 22 teams.)
For broadcasters it means extra games in WA, which means more prime time in the east. And there may be some WC fans sick of waiting lists who jump on WA3 quickly, whether jumping ship or simply to get access to AFL games. Some of the latter may well become attached to the team they get to see.

Joodalup-Wanneroo or whatever would need to have its own ground for smaller home games, preferably one with scope for significant expansion later on.
Perth City would perhaps be best that way for a while, but without the expansion needed at their venue as once they grow they can just move into the 60k one. There isn't a geographical distinction.

However, if going to four WA teams both new teams need to be introduced at once. That appears extraordinarily unlikely.
Your last sentence is why there won’t be four WA teams then, although I’d say if the 4th team was based in the south west that they wouldn’t need to be introduced at the same time.

I think 22 teams is fine for single tier but I wouldn’t have four WA teams as part of that. With 22 teams, you can play everyone once + two rivals. If teams 20-22 are from ACT, WA, and SA then the WA teams can play each other twice and the SA teams can play each other twice without a worry.

If you were going to go beyond 22 teams then I think you’d need a conference system. At 24 teams, you’d need 25 games to ensure the WA and SA teams and whoever else are doubling up.

25 games is too long of a season so that’s when you’d split them into four groups of six, starting at 23 teams with one of them having five teams instead of six. Victorian teams from a different conference could still play each other once every year.

But beyond Canberra, WA3 (maybe 4 like you said), SA3 and Brisbane 2, I can’t see there being any other viable options within the next 20-30 years. You’re right that new clubs in WA could grow over time but as I’ve said before I’d hate for ACT to miss out because of a market that is already represented when the ACT has a good chance of being a successful club and strengthening the national profile of the game.
 
Nah. Instead of pushing North to the GC in 2006, they should have gone with the North Sydney Kangaroos. Reckon it would have got up. Much closer to home, still North, still the Kangaroos. Same jumper.

No one in Western Sydney is ever going to follow AFL. Dividing the city on a north v south basis would have worked much better.

Then Tas and GC come in at 17 & 18th teams in 2011/12.

This is what I said too. The kangaroos brand in North Sydney would have really resonated and the blue compared to the swans red would be a great difference. The only part I disagree with is western sydney, I'm hoping that can work at some point, it just needs a bit of momentum with crowds, then it could catch fire like the swans did. A flag would help.
 
This is what I said too. The kangaroos brand in North Sydney would have really resonated and the blue compared to the swans red would be a great difference. The only part I disagree with is western sydney, I'm hoping that can work at some point, it just needs a bit of momentum with crowds, then it could catch fire like the swans did. A flag would help.
Western Sydney Bulldogs could've been a hit just as North Sydney Kangaroos might have been.
 

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I’d love an NT team as much as anyone having grown up there and knowing how much footy means to people there.

But anyone that has actually been there recently should be able to tell you it’s not happening….. it’s a complete mess at the moment. Many stores aren’t even open you have to wave at them to open their doors because they’re sick of being robbed, homelessness, begging, stabbing, gang violence you name it. It’s not safe to even walk to your car after work or visit your local shop and It’s only getting worse.

“Territory-wide, the yearly statistics show assaults over the past 12 months are up by 88 per cent from 2009 — up by nearly 55 per cent in Darwin, and a whopping 148 per cent in Alice Springs”

And it was already a rough place in 2009.


That’s without the travel and lack of resources, population etc.

Places like Gold Coast and GWS can barely attract top end AFL talent without massively overpaying players.

Darwin would be a complete dog's breakfast for an AFL team. Won't happen.

3rd team in Perth makes the most sense for a 20th team not to mention the cheapest - they can easily readjust the fixture and just have a game at Optus every weekend, some weekends 2 games.
 
Places like Gold Coast and GWS can barely attract top end AFL talent without massively overpaying players.

Darwin would be a complete dog's breakfast for an AFL team. Won't happen.

3rd team in Perth makes the most sense for a 20th team not to mention the cheapest - they can easily readjust the fixture and just have a game at Optus every weekend, some weekends 2 games.

You can't have that name and not be in favour of Hird's hometown getting a team.
 
You can't have that name and not be in favour of Hird's hometown getting a team.

lol

i don't know about Canberra. GWS kind of seem already entrenched there. They literally have it written on the back of their jersey.

i think a 3rd Perth team would be a lot easier and fruitful for the AFL than Canberra.
 
lol

i don't know about Canberra. GWS kind of seem already entrenched there. They literally have it written on the back of their jersey.

GWS is no more Canberra's team than North is Hobart's. They get support as it's the only option for AFL we have, but our own team would be infinitely more popular.

i think a 3rd Perth team would be a lot easier and fruitful for the AFL than Canberra.

Maybe easier, but more fruitful is arguable.

In terms of growing the game and fans, Canberra does that better hands down. WA3 just shuffles around pre-existing fans.

In terms of viability, Canberra has a few advantages, too. More government funding, and likely in-season stadium naming and advertising rights. That'd give Canberra a $5-6m a year advantage over WA3.

Manuka would also have a lower breakeven attendance than Optus.

Canberra also had a 40% higher median income than Perth. More money for memberships and merch.

Plenty of upsides for Canberra.
 
As some poster in this thread already mentioned, there's no reason why WA3 and SA3 couldn't come in as teams 21 and 22, especially if it's true that WA3 was once considered as the 19th team rather than Tasmania. I think third clubs in these states would pose their fair share of challenges, but it's not inconceivable to think they won't grow at a faster rate than NSW and QLD clubs would over a couple decades. Third clubs in WA and SA would give more service to traditional footy markets, getting more use out of Optus and Adelaide Oval, and could ease the travel burden slightly of these clubs.

It's difficult to see what's viable beyond that. I think the Sunshine Coast is too small to go it alone, ditto Cairns or anywhere in north Queensland. Darwin's too small, and New Zealand and Newcastle and Sydney don't seem to give a shit. I'm not sure about a second Brisbane team anymore either since the new Gabba has been scrapped.

So 22 would probably be a good place to leave it. I'd love to see the NT represented but without $$$ behind it, it won't ever happen. It'd take the league to 23 teams, though, so you'd need a 24th, which could be a 4th team in WA if there's no other good option. I doubt the league will grow to 24 teams but 22 seems like a decent possibility to me.
 
if your just trying to add a team to improve the TV product. A Darwin team in a state of the art Indoor air conditioned stadium makes a lot of sense. Gets rid of humidity effecting gamestyle issues.

Makes all of australia seem included and it’s a pretty place. There’s some romance there and a real elite development pathway run in the NT would be of huge benefit to the talented youngsters who live there who wouldn’t have to adapt to Melbourne life at the same time as adapting to the AFL.

It would be a pretty big money sink though. If your going for financial return your probably going WA3
 
if your just trying to add a team to improve the TV product. A Darwin team in a state of the art Indoor air conditioned stadium makes a lot of sense. Gets rid of humidity effecting gamestyle issues.

Makes all of australia seem included and it’s a pretty place. There’s some romance there and a real elite development pathway run in the NT would be of huge benefit to the talented youngsters who live there who wouldn’t have to adapt to Melbourne life at the same time as adapting to the AFL.

It would be a pretty big money sink though. If your going for financial return your probably going WA3

Or you could go with a team that adds to the national footprint and has a financial return...
 
if your just trying to add a team to improve the TV product. A Darwin team in a state of the art Indoor air conditioned stadium makes a lot of sense. Gets rid of humidity effecting gamestyle issues.

Makes all of australia seem included and it’s a pretty place. There’s some romance there and a real elite development pathway run in the NT would be of huge benefit to the talented youngsters who live there who wouldn’t have to adapt to Melbourne life at the same time as adapting to the AFL.

It would be a pretty big money sink though. If your going for financial return your probably going WA3
The AFL is not going to fork out BILLIONS to get a NT team up and running. The NT government certainly can’t afford it, the federal government is not in a good position at all to fund it, nor will they be for the foreseeable future, so who’s going to fund it then?

Also, we wouldn’t have a truly national competition without the national capital, so adding the NT won’t fix that.
 
Canberra seems to me to always be ignored, if they don’t get the 20th licence I’m not sure they ever will get a team.

If they get it, I can see the NT doing a Tassie and pushing hard for a 21st licence, never giving up. It may very well be that none of the club presidents will want to add more teams unless it’s the NT which is why I could see them being the 21st team. It’d be an amazing thing to see, I’d like to see it happen and I’m sure many others would, too, but they’re going to need some big $$$ behind it.

If the NT did against the odds become team 20 then I fear Canberra would miss out and that would suck. I don’t think there’d be as much public support for Canberra coming in as the 21st team as there would be for NT.

If WA needs a third team then 22 is always an option and if it doesn’t go past 20, well at least they already have two.
 

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GWS is no more Canberra's team than North is Hobart's. They get support as it's the only option for AFL we have, but our own team would be infinitely more popular.



Maybe easier, but more fruitful is arguable.

In terms of growing the game and fans, Canberra does that better hands down. WA3 just shuffles around pre-existing fans.

In terms of viability, Canberra has a few advantages, too. More government funding, and likely in-season stadium naming and advertising rights. That'd give Canberra a $5-6m a year advantage over WA3.

Manuka would also have a lower breakeven attendance than Optus.

Canberra also had a 40% higher median income than Perth. More money for memberships and merch.

Plenty of upsides for Canberra.

Back when I was living there. There was lots of support for the NRL Canberra team. Yes there was support for other clubs as well, but most supported Canberra as a 2nd team.
 
The AFL is not going to fork out BILLIONS to get a NT team up and running. The NT government certainly can’t afford it, the federal government is not in a good position at all to fund it, nor will they be for the foreseeable future, so who’s going to fund it then?

Also, we wouldn’t have a truly national competition without the national capital, so adding the NT won’t fix that.

it would be a basket case. Even if the afl foot the bill at a forever loss no good player will go there.

places like gold coast can’t even attract talent without over paying. Darwin would be a distaster. They would need a significant salary cap advantage to even be competitive.

no offense to anyone that is from there, but it is a shit hole.
 
Back when I was living there. There was lots of support for the NRL Canberra team. Yes there was support for other clubs as well, but most supported Canberra as a 2nd team.

That's pretty much what I expect for an AFL team, too. More as a second team to start with, but more primary support as time goes on. I think there's such variation in team support, that a lot of people will support Canberra so they can support a team together with their mates.

We're probably not as parochial as Tassie, but Canberrans still get behind a Canberra team.
 
Heys Guys,
Kind of random but is an Auckland AFL team possible?

Definitely not impossible.

Good population, opens up a new timeslot (I think it'd make a great early Friday night slot).

The major issue holding back Auckland is a lack of stadium. The surface at Eden Park is too small. There's been talk of an AFL-capable stadium at Western Springs for ages, but nothing ever seemed to eventuate.

Once they get a capable stadium, then they can test the waters with a few games.
 
South West WA - Growing population- domestic airport- great tourist destinations- perfect playing conditions. Bunbury Busselton Dunsborough Albany Margaret River.
 

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That's pretty much what I expect for an AFL team, too. More as a second team to start with, but more primary support as time goes on. I think there's such variation in team support, that a lot of people will support Canberra so they can support a team together with their mates.

We're probably not as parochial as Tassie, but Canberrans still get behind a Canberra team.

Also with Canberra, there are a lot of expats, from all over the country.
 
Definitely not impossible.

Good population, opens up a new timeslot (I think it'd make a great early Friday night slot).

The major issue holding back Auckland is a lack of stadium. The surface at Eden Park is too small. There's been talk of an AFL-capable stadium at Western Springs for ages, but nothing ever seemed to eventuate.

Once they get a capable stadium, then they can test the waters with a few games.
The other major issue with a New Zealand team or any proposed 21st team will be, as Walshawk has pointed out before, club presidents voting in favour of the club.

There was significant public support for Tasmania, and probably sentimentally among the club presidents themselves, for the Tasmania vote.

I doubt such pressure or care will apply for New Zealand or anywhere else except for the Northern Territory which remains a popular, yet unfeasible choice.

The reluctance from club presidents to add more clubs to the league is probably the best argument against my suggestions of future expansion beyond 20 or anyone else's.
 
There is no current need for a 20th team. All sides currently have a bye and an additional team just means this gets spread out more over a season.
 
There is no current need for a 20th team. All sides currently have a bye and an additional team just means this gets spread out more over a season.
Of course there's not, we don't have 19 teams yet. We will, and Gill already said it'll likely go to 20 teams.

Canberra would be the best option, especially if the WAFC is capable of shooting down WA3. I don't know if the AFL can circumvent them and set one up with the WA government or not, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, even if WA3 gets ruled out, the AFL still might try and get the NT to happen; the ACT will have to step up and push for their own team but there's still plenty of time before they need to get more vocal yet.
 

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Expansion 20th AFL team location

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