Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

[Grrr]

you can bet your bottom dollar if Ellis was at another club these posters would be vitriolic. The double standards never cease to amaze me.
.How can you have a balanced debate with these posters when the only objective is to only focus on the good and talk up every player regardless of how well the performances have been.
The performances for Ellis have been very poor even with some of the injuries hes had. The criticisms are two things. basically a running commentary of his performances at the level and the weaknesses that so far have prevented him from taking the next step.

I dont have a crystal ball i can only comment on what is dished up by the player and the actual performance.
He aint a big mid 184cm he seems to be a little undersized still, which is a little disappointing theres been nothing to prevent him getting in the gym over the last 4 preseasons. he turns 22 and he enters yr 4 he needs to take a few steps up thats nothing but the truth.

It seems he managed to find a bit of ball at vfl level late last yr that has to translate to AFL but you wonder if it will. think hes got pretty good awareness and he does use the ball well. he will need it if hes to play as a 60/40 inside mid. Outside of that role im asking what other role does his attributes lend themselves to.
His lack of pace and agression that borders on timid are a concern.His inability to get his hands on the ball at AFL level must be a concern to everyone as well..

Ive seen a lack of size hold a lot of players back. in most cases when the size and strength comes they realise they can compete they wont get hurt and then improve.
Imo this and pace has a fair bit to do with why Ellis atm has struggled. im hopeful that the penny will drop that with some more size and strength he becomes a decent player, but in yr 4 he will remain in the gun until this happens . WE ALL HAVE OUR FINGERS CROSSED HE CAN TAKE THE STEPS NEEDED. Im not writing him off just yet he has a yr to show his worth at the level When he gets his opportunites. He really must improve though or the critiques will just continue.

Maybe the improvement is nothing more than a dominant yr in the VFL where his skill lots of aggression and lots of ball winning go on display.

Why would we be having a crack at a young player coming through on the edge. Not many posters get stuck into opposition players unless there is a fair reason.
On one hand you say he's timid, on another you acknowledge that he may just need a good season in the VFL to get his confidence up. I think we all have said much the same thing, mostly hoping that he comes through this season because he has talent.
Of course there is nothing preventing him from hitting the gym, unless he is instructed not to do so or that he does not muscle up easily. All players have to hit the gym, it is part of every training session, especially pre season. He would have a program designed for him. You make it sound like he is negligent.
Like Menadue, they both look to have put on size finally.
As you also mention he is now (and always was as a junior) an inside mid. But he couldn't play that way in senior football because he wasn't big enough. Now he is getting there and as you say he did step up the aggression late in the season. So we are all having a bit each way with CEllis, including yourself.

 

[juss]

*Maybe if I keep ridiculing CEllis people will start to agree with me*

#goldustthoughts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm with Goldy on this one, Ellis has a long, long way to go, and looks unlikely imo.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I'm with Goldy on this one, Ellis has a long, long way to go, and looks unlikely imo.

He's a bright light. An "aurora corey ellis" one might say

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

The good thing is the JLT squad he's named as a starting on the ground. Assuming they actually go with that on the day, lets see this Sat if there are signs of improvement.

 

[mopsy]

Why would we be having a crack at a young player coming through on the edge. Not many posters get stuck into opposition players unless there is a fair reason.
On one hand you say he's timid, on another you acknowledge that he may just need a good season in the VFL to get his confidence up. I think we all have said much the same thing, mostly hoping that he comes through this season because he has talent.
Of course there is nothing preventing him from hitting the gym, unless he is instructed not to do so or that he does not muscle up easily. All players have to hit the gym, it is part of every training session, especially pre season. He would have a program designed for him. You make it sound like he is negligent.
Like Menadue, they both look to have put on size finally.
As you also mention he is now (and always was as a junior) an inside mid. But he couldn't play that way in senior football because he wasn't big enough. Now he is getting there and as you say he did step up the aggression late in the season. So we are all having a bit each way with CEllis, including yourself.

Most certainly having a bob each way. Ive rarely written a junior player off inside 4 yrs. But i do talk about their weaknesses and their performances people do get upset with that for no good reasons.

So many posters belittle opposition players and then defend worse performing tiger players it may not apply to you but it applies to plenty.

On the gym just stating that a lack of size appears to have been an issue and continues to be something that has held him back. He started at 75kg and has had 4 preseasons to get up to 80kg. I would have thought and quite reasonably imo that bulking up and gaining as much strength as possible would have been a priority for both him and the club and for the role expected of him.I dont get it why wouldn't ya ask that question.
As you say there may be a valid reason but im yet to hear of one.
You mentioned Menadue. When he walked through the door the same season he was 69kg wringing wet, he definately was not one who looked predisposed to putting weight on, yet hes now 80kg himself having gained 11kg. If possible like corey he could probably do with another 4 or 5kg.

Finally we are all looking for improvement especially with the weaknesses just saying that improvement can come by playing in the vfl and may be the best place for him atm. Personally i think hes well behind others and dont want to see him jump over those players just because hes an early draft pick.

 

[_RT_]

Most certainly having a bob each way. Ive rarely written a junior player off inside 4 yrs. But i do talk about their weaknesses and their performances people do get upset with that for no good reasons.

So many posters belittle opposition players and then defend worse performing tiger players it may not apply to you but it applies to plenty.

On the gym just stating that a lack of size appears to have been an issue and continues to be something that has held him back. He started at 75kg and has had 4 preseasons to get up to 80kg. I would have thought and quite reasonably imo that bulking up and gaining as much strength as possible would have been a priority for both him and the club and for the role expected of him.I dont get it why wouldn't ya ask that question.
As you say there may be a valid reason but im yet to hear of one.
You mentioned Menadue. When he walked through the door the same season he was 69kg wringing wet, he definately was not one who looked predisposed to putting weight on, yet hes now 80kg himself having gained 11kg. If possible like corey he could probably do with another 4 or 5kg.

Finally we are all looking for improvement especially with the weaknesses just saying that improvement can come by playing in the vfl and may be the best place for him atm. Personally i think hes well behind others and dont want to see him jump over those players just because hes an early draft pick.

Ever thought that the club stopped him from bulking up too much while he fully recovered from having bone fragments removed from his feet. I know that some will scoff at that suggestion, but it's not uncommon for that to happen so that there is less strain going through his feet as he recovers.

As for being timid, I don't get how the kid gets labelled that when he averaged 6 tackles a game over 16 games in the VFL. That's the same number as Townsend averaged and more than Miles and nobody would call those 2 timid. The latter part of last season Ellis seemed to finally get it and actually start to perform in the way that is expected of him. Through the VFL finals, where the pressure was increased from the regular season he averaged 20+ disposals and 6+ tackles a game. Pleasingly he has added some muscle to his body and has worked his way into the squad for JLT1 that features a team with 19 of 22 premiership players, hopefully he can grab his chance because if we want to remain at the top for the next few years we're going to need kids like him Menadue Markov Short Bolton among others to step up and become good footballers.

 

[Goldust]

Why would we be having a crack at a young player coming through on the edge. Not many posters get stuck into opposition players unless there is a fair reason.

Really????? You sure about that ... not many have a crack at opposition players?
F*** I must be reading the wrong board.

 

[Goldust]

Ever thought that the club stopped him from bulking up too much while he fully recovered from having bone fragments removed from his feet. I know that some will scoff at that suggestion, but it's not uncommon for that to happen so that there is less strain going through his feet as he recovers.

As for being timid, I don't get how the kid gets labelled that when he averaged 6 tackles a game over 16 games in the VFL. That's the same number as Townsend averaged and more than Miles and nobody would call those 2 timid. The latter part of last season Ellis seemed to finally get it and actually start to perform in the way that is expected of him. Through the VFL finals, where the pressure was increased from the regular season he averaged 20+ disposals and 6+ tackles a game. Pleasingly he has added some muscle to his body and has worked his way into the squad for JLT1 that features a team with 19 of 22 premiership players, hopefully he can grab his chance because if we want to remain at the top for the next few years we're going to need kids like him Menadue Markov Short Bolton among others to step up and become good footballers.

Speculation .... pure speculation re being prevented from bulking up, which is okay, if you are prepared to allow others the opportunity to speculate. And yes I will scoff at the suggestion.
The kid averaged two tackles a game at AFL level and five kicks .... and therein lies the problem. Dismiss what he does at VFL level (as you and many others so readily do with other senior listed players) and concentrate on his AFL form. Miles averaged more tackles than most on the list in the dark years of 2014-15-16 when we considered tackling anathema and non-essential, including Captain Cotch. No one would call Townsend and Miles timid because they aren't. They make tackles stick ..... CEllis I have yet to see him make one stick.
Funny that you would launch direct into a comparison with Miles and Townsend when you have long-led the brigade who says we can't compare those players with CEllis as they are different players. But now we are comparing?
Viewing CEllis up clos eat training recently he looked frail and under-sized, even accounting for 'bulking up'.
Granted we will keep affording him opportunities that others have earned.

 

[abcxyz]

The latter part of last season Ellis seemed to finally get it and actually start to perform in the way that is expected of him. Through the VFL finals, where the pressure was increased from the regular season he averaged 20+ disposals and 6+ tackles a game. Pleasingly he has added some muscle to his body and has worked his way into the squad for JLT1 that features a team with 19 of 22 premiership players

Yeah, I saw him for the first time in a long time in the VFL finals (struggle to get to AFL H&A matches let alone VFL). His willingness to be physical at the contest was what stood out for me.

At times in his AFL games I worried for his welfare, as it's mostly the guy who doesn't go in hardest who gets injured - and Corey was timid as a sinewy teenager can be.

Hopefully, naming him on the field for JLT1, with a number of premiership players on the pine, is a show of confidence in his ability to get into the starting 22 come R1 and he will relish it.

The lad has the skills, has shown the commitment to physicality at VFL level, and hopefully can put pressure on our GF 22 to maintain if not improve their commitment to the high pressure and skillful game plan.

 

[abcxyz]

They make tackles stick ..... CEllis I have yet to see him make one stick.

And this, or probably more accurately in our game plan "Pressure acts", should be what he is measured by for improvement. His size doesn't matter, but his impact on the contest, and the contested ball, matter.

We've seen the mosquito fleet have huge impact with their ability to apply pressure without necessarily sticking a tackle - but they are quick. Corey isn't, so he needs to make the times he gets to a contest count with a higher impact percentage.

 

[Bojangles17]

Hope he gets busy on Saturday , has the skills , needs to believe and put it together

 

[guruisatiger]

His last quarter in round 2 of the vfl last year , against sandringham at sandringham
Was awesome moved into the center square and had 10 possessions and a goal hopefully he can take a step forward this year and be regular at afl , he gives our midfield a point of difference

 

[Charlie Pannam]

I'm with Goldy on this one, Ellis has a long, long way to go, and looks unlikely imo.

I hope he has plenty of improvement left in him because I don't want to see any Tiger player fail, but every time I've seen him at the top level he's looked out of his depth and lacking belief that he belongs at that level. You compare him to other kids like Short, Menadue and Markov who aren't playing regular senior footy but at least have shown something at the highest level, don't reckon you can say the same about Ellis.

 

[prodigy]

I hope he has plenty of improvement left in him because I don't want to see any Tiger player fail, but every time I've seen him at the top level he's looked out of his depth and lacking belief that he belongs at that level. You compare him to other kids like Short, Menadue and Markov who aren't playing regular senior footy but at least have shown something at the highest level, don't reckon you can say the same about Ellis.

To say he hasn’t shown anything at the highest level is off the mark in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[biaseddustyfan]

even his good games at senior level he's usually been good for 10 min then gone for the rest. I've certainly seen potential. I just want to see him show no fear. He needs to watch Cotch highlights from the finals and go that hard.

JLT could be huge for him. If he plays badly but still makes the rd1 squad then plays badly again, he may see himself out for a while with plenty of players to come in for him. However if he looks the goods the next few weeks then has a half decent round 1 as a minimum he might get a whole heap of games in a row especially if we're winning. Big time in his career for sure. Needs to play with the thought that he will be traded to #lolnorf at years end if he doesn't perform

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

To say he hasn’t shown anything at the highest level is off the mark in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2 things.

That bullet pass (1st game I think).

And the grab he took last season where he jumped into the pack in the F50.

 

[Bobby Sands]

2 things.

That bullet pass (1st game I think).

And the grab he took last season where he jumped into the pack in the F50.

Running goal against Essendon. Also that underground kick pass he did once was genius.

 

[THE_GUN]

Personally i was surprised with the selection during the draft and believed that Weller & Duggan were the players we should have taken but Duggan was already off the board - But it was well documented that Ellis was coming to Richmond thanks to leaking of info.

So far he has been disappointing and not shown a great deal for a #12 but he is ours now and we will see how he goes in 2018 and hope he makes it, Based on the last 4 years he shouldnt get another contract but his injuries have been well documented and probably will get another year and im ok with a 1 year extension on low coin provided the coaches see what they need to see and have the confidence in them to make the correct call.

Apart from his last 5/6 games at VFL level where i did like what he showed i have not seen a great deal that make me call 'Silk' But he was very highly rated at junior level at Keilor and am happy to wait and see

 

[KiwiTiger]

I ate dinner with him at Twin Waters. Great kid. Wish him all the best for 2018 season.

Haere Ra

 

[Grrr]

Really????? You sure about that ... not many have a crack at opposition players?
F*** I must be reading the wrong board.

Not many have a crack at 21 year old players who are on the edge and working their way into AFL. Sure there are prominent players from other clubs that get talked up so some think it fair game to talk them down, or that they are like De Goey and put themselves up there to be pulled down, but that rarely applies to young, quite kids like Ellis. And if posters do have a crack, then those posters should be ignored.

 

[Goldust]

I ate dinner with him at Twin Waters. Great kid. Wish him all the best for 2018 season.

Haere Ra

I've eaten dinner with AFL footballers before too ..... and a few NBL players and state cricketers.
Great people. Not all of them are champions; not all of them amount to much at all.
But great kids!

 

[Goldust]

Not many have a crack at 21 year old players who are on the edge and working their way into AFL. Sure there are prominent players from other clubs that get talked up so some think it fair game to talk them down, or that they are like De Goey and put themselves up there to be pulled down, but that rarely applies to young, quite kids like Ellis. And if posters do have a crack, then those posters should be ignored.

This guy has been afforded more excuses than a dead horse has flies.
It's time to perform and justify his first round selection. Right now I'd settle for him justifying being a third round pick, but he hasn't even done that.
But the excuses will continue to roll in and even the most obscure of highlights will be pumped on here by some as to evidence why he's a keeper.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

To say he hasn’t shown anything at the highest level is off the mark in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just said that he looked out of his depth when I’d watched him but hey everyone sees it differently I hope he has another gear and becomes a very good or at least a solid performer for us. Maybe he’s a late developer ala Michael Tuck who played a lot of 2a footy before cracking it in the big time. But you can only give your opinion on what you’ve seen so far not what you hope will happen and imo he hasn’t shown a great deal to this point

 

[Goldust]

I just said that he looked out of his depth when I’d watched him but hey everyone sees it differently I hope he has another gear and becomes a very good or at least a solid performer for us. Maybe he’s a late developer ala Michael Tuck who played a lot of 2a footy before cracking it in the big time. But you can only give your opinion on what you’ve seen so far not what you hope will happen and imo he hasn’t shown a great deal to this point

Not how it goes here, Charlie ol' boy.
You have to swear undying love and the highest adulation for all our senior - and rookie - listed players and not be objective in the slightest.
How it goes is you can only see the positives and report as such. This CEllis, mate, he's a beauty.
Give an opinion you will be hounded and branded anti-Richmond, a liar and someone who wants to see the Tigers lose
Yet, you will be free to give your opinion once said player is out the door without fulfilling whatever potential he started with.
You know, the type of critiques now reserved for blokes like Lennon, Griffiths and Vickery, who the masses continued to pump up and see things in that simply weren't there.
Your opinion on CEllis' is right on the mark, but that's not to say you are entitled to that opinion or that it's wanted on here.
Staggers why some posters are still so scared of both truth and failure.

 

[Grrr]

Not how it goes here, Charlie ol' boy.
You have to swear undying love and the highest adulation for all our senior - and rookie - listed players and not be objective in the slightest.
How it goes is you can only see the positives and report as such. This CEllis, mate, he's a beauty.
Give an opinion you will be hounded and branded anti-Richmond, a liar and someone who wants to see the Tigers lose
Yet, you will be free to give your opinion once said player is out the door without fulfilling whatever potential he started with.
You know, the type of critiques now reserved for blokes like Lennon, Griffiths and Vickery, who the masses continued to pump up and see things in that simply weren't there.
Your opinion on CEllis' is right on the mark, but that's not to say you are entitled to that opinion or that it's wanted on here.
Staggers why some posters are still so scared of both truth and failure.

What a crock. Most people on here are just like you and state that he has mostly underachieved. A good many doubt he will make it, others think he has some tools (skill) but lacks others (pace). Some doubt his ticker, some think give him time. The only person attacking posters here is you.