Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

[prodigy]

not sure if wise is the word i would use lol.

As i said on the podcast though i think the biggest issues he has is:

1) who does he replace in the current side?
2) whoever he replaces, he needs to be providing a better output or equal output at a minimum.

it's a tough side to break into, but it feels too hard to gauge off very limited game time.

There could be a opening for him with Broad out for a few weeks, but he would be competing against Short for that spot.

Yeah it’s a tough one. Short was impressive against Norf but I’m concerned with his tendency to just blaze away.


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[TigerImposter]

It was said as a way to highlight how some posters would still find something to be critical about and you mentioning quality over quantity highlighted that my assessment wasn't that far off the mark.

Which makes you look silly as i look at Rioli ,Butler and George who don't get much of it,but what they do is generally of quality. I know you love stats,but it's the ability to analyse them that counts. Again your scenario was a pipe dream and irrelevant to the truth. ALSO what gives you the right to make up something then put it on people as their moda operandi? If you weren't so vindictive and read my posts carefully you would know that i'm the first to admit i was wrong about something and apologetic about it. I'm the type who doesn't hold a grudge as generally speaking people who do end up with more serious issues.

 

[tropicaltiger]

Great post. Since when did you become so wise? [emoji12]
And yes, that was indeed him picking it up off his laces and dishing it off deep in the F50

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yep done it in the essendon game too - 2 goals while in full lunge mode the result, any minuscule fumbling or waiting and it would have been zilch.

 

[Michaels]

I believe he had a minor injury in the preseason which may be why his game time % isn’t as high

ahh that makes a bit more sense now, thanks for that! what a shame though, would have been great if he could have had a full crack at it to impress.

Yeah it’s a tough one. Short was impressive against Norf but I’m concerned with his tendency to just blaze away.


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I think they both offer very different things. Short adds a bit more pace / run and carry, Ellis offers a bit more pressure and tackling then short but won't break the lines as much.

both long kicks of the ball, Ellis probably has the better of him in terms of accuracy.

tough call for the selectors.


it really is a bad year if you need a 'breakout year' to occur

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Great post. Since when did you become so wise? [emoji12]
And yes, that was indeed him picking it up off his laces and dishing it off deep in the F50

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13.26 minute of the last quarter...slight fumble/knock-on of the ball but still managed to pick it up and dish it off cleanly to Grigg for a goal!

 

[_RT_]

Which makes you look silly as i look at Rioli ,Butler and George who don't get much of it,but what they do is generally of quality. I know you love stats,but it's the ability to analyse them that counts. Again your scenario was a pipe dream and irrelevant to the truth. ALSO what gives you the right to make up something then put it on people as their moda operandi? If you weren't so vindictive and read my posts carefully you would know that i'm the first to admit i was wrong about something and apologetic about it. I'm the type who doesn't hold a grudge as generally speaking people who do end up with more serious issues.

Haven't made up anything you have a history of being critical of Ellis. Even when he has played well you have pulled apart his game and disputed facts/official statistics.

So like I said Ellis could have a season like what I suggested and you've already said it wouldn't mean much if the quality of disposal was lacking.

 

[TigerImposter]

Haven't made up anything you have a history of being critical of Ellis. Even when he has played well you have pulled apart his game and disputed facts/official statistics.

This is utter bs again and your inability to read coming to the forte' once again. Bring these posts up and of course in the context they were written in and to whom(with all links). How can i have been critical as the club dropped him after the Geelong game where he was replaced by a kid who had no preseason? I think the club must have had a doubt on him to stand up in finals footy.
It's amazing how you constantly under value and bag out Miles who has out performed Corey endlessly, yet you are quick to accuse others of your dirty tactics. You're a hypocrite and actually in Dermie terms ,"Dishonest".
Once again you ignorantly generated a pile of stats and accused me of how i would react if they happened to be true and now you're crawling back into the past in an attempt to hide your personal, ill thought out and childish comments.

So like I said Ellis could have a season like what I suggested and you've already said it wouldn't mean much if the quality of disposal was lacking.
No you imagined bs up again and i pulled you up on stats as your comment was so simple and childish that you believe bigger and greater is better and i just added another possibility. It had nothing to do with Corey as it was you fantasizing again just like you once told us all how Yarran in his first game would pick the ball up off the HB line , take three bounces, dodge x number of players and slot a goal from 50 out. Again i'm not here to talk bs or listen to your bs and fantasize ,but just basing my views on what he's dished up and where he needs to be at .

 

[blaisee]

Well aware of his disposal numbers. I don't believe there is a conspiracy against, just that some seem to want to find fault with his game regardless. As mentioned the counter to this example was it's not quantity but the quality. He may have been gifted games but that is no different to most high picks early on. Last season though he was made to earn his spot and was quickly sent back when performances didn't stack up.

Still has a fair way to go to become a regular in the 22 but he is tracking nicely so far this season.

everyone wants Ellis to make it.

There is however a bit of debate as to how likely that may actually be to happen

 

[Goldust]

Yes I criticised Miles game as lacking impact and the fact he averaged 30 odd disposals a game for the season and still struggled to break into the senior side suggests it's a valid criticism. As TI said quality of quantity is what counts.

So genius, what was your poster boy CEllis' reasons for not getting picked in the senior team, despite your bkinkered, undying and daily defences?????
Sonme would suggest that if CEllis couldn't break into the team and couldn't perform when he got there would mean that some of the 'criticism' that you ignore from certain posters just might be VALID. Though you'll ignore it ... or more likely point back to your one past (after 111 glowingly positive ones) where yoiyu sad he has aspects of his game that need fixing.
And again, a plodder like CEllis will always have more tackles than Miles and indeed Dusty and Trent - as they are getting on with the business of chasing the pill.
PS Suggest you look at the stats (which you take as the be all and ends all). Milesy averages more tackles per AFL game than Cotchin, Martin and CEllis. That said means nothing except if you are infatuated with stats and think every game is won on a piece of paper of a spreadsheet.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

16 minute mark of the last quarter went from the forward to the backline and relieved the Tigers backline with a clearing kick...was flattened..got up..
To see the Tigers score a goal!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

17.44 minute mark of the last quarter takes a strong mark under pressure in the backline...cleared with a kick...which led to a soldo point!

 

[Goldust]

ahh that makes a bit more sense now, thanks for that! what a shame though, would have been great if he could have had a full crack at it to impress.



I think they both offer very different things. Short adds a bit more pace / run and carry, Ellis offers a bit more pressure and tackling then short but won't break the lines as much.

both long kicks of the ball, Ellis probably has the better of him in terms of accuracy.

tough call for the selectors.


it really is a bad year if you need a 'breakout year' to occur

Very true statement that last one. reigning premiers .. breakout years???

 

[Michaels]

Very true statement that last one. reigning premiers .. breakout years???

it is a good problem to have though, multiple players banging down the door for selection after a premiership year.

ensuring the premiership 22 don't get too comfy can only ever be a good thing.

This will be a huge year for Corey, but its going to be a tough team to break into. at a minimum he needs to be dominating in the VFL if he isnt in the seniors.

i think he can do it.

i hope they can settle him in a role instead of throwing him around everywhere and then it is all up to him.

 

[_RT_]

Haven't made up anything you have a history of being critical of Ellis. Even when he has played well you have pulled apart his game and disputed facts/official statistics.

This is utter bs again and your inability to read coming to the forte' once again. Bring these posts up and of course in the context they were written in and to whom(with all links). How can i have been critical as the club dropped him after the Geelong game where he was replaced by a kid who had no preseason? I think the club must have had a doubt on him to stand up in finals footy.
It's amazing how you constantly under value and bag out Miles who has out performed Corey endlessly, yet you are quick to accuse others of your dirty tactics. You're a hypocrite and actually in Dermie terms ,"Dishonest".
Once again you ignorantly generated a pile of stats and accused me of how i would react if they happened to be true and now you're crawling back into the past in an attempt to hide your personal, ill thought out and childish comments.

I don't have to link anything it is well known that you've done it. I don't undervalue Miles just stated that he isn't that damaging for someone who gets it 30+ times a game.

So like I said Ellis could have a season like what I suggested and you've already said it wouldn't mean much if the quality of disposal was lacking.
No you imagined bs up again and i pulled you up on stats as your comment was so simple and childish that you believe bigger and greater is better and i just added another possibility. It had nothing to do with Corey as it was you fantasizing again just like you once told us all how Yarran in his first game would pick the ball up off the HB line , take three bounces, dodge x number of players and slot a goal from 50 out. Again i'm not here to talk bs or listen to your bs and fantasize ,but just basing my views on what he's dished up and where he needs to be at .

It was an example, if you don't understand that don't blame me. And like I said your comment that if they weren't quality possessions it wouldn't matter once again highlighted that the train of thought was correct.

 

[_RT_]

So genius, what was your poster boy CEllis' reasons for not getting picked in the senior team, despite your bkinkered, undying and daily defences?????
Sonme would suggest that if CEllis couldn't break into the team and couldn't perform when he got there would mean that some of the 'criticism' that you ignore from certain posters just might be VALID. Though you'll ignore it ... or more likely point back to your one past (after 111 glowingly positive ones) where yoiyu sad he has aspects of his game that need fixing.
And again, a plodder like CEllis will always have more tackles than Miles and indeed Dusty and Trent - as they are getting on with the business of chasing the pill.
PS Suggest you look at the stats (which you take as the be all and ends all). Milesy averages more tackles per AFL game than Cotchin, Martin and CEllis. That said means nothing except if you are infatuated with stats and think every game is won on a piece of paper of a spreadsheet.

I've never once ignored the criticism of Ellis' game. I offered reasons as to why he hadn't come on like some expected. Those reasons have been constantly ignored and disregarded by both you and TI in particular.

As for stats, the reason I use them us because they are factual. They aren't based on opinion, it is what has happened in the game.

As for not getting picked well for one there was a lack of injuries, and seconddly the team was playing incredibly well with nobody really struggling for form post the Geelong game.

 

[_RT_]

everyone wants Ellis to make it.

There is however a bit of debate as to how likely that may actually be to happen

Well aware of the debate. Unfortunately in the debate some are overly critical IMO despite valid reasons as to why he hasn't come on as expected.

At the end of the day 2018 will make or break his career.

 

[TigerImposter]

Miles and Higgins are still around guys. Higgins already taking up our game plan with 9 tackles and lots of gut running. The talk up and praise on him is matching my preseason expectations. Not bad for a kid who's just walked into the place.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2018-03-09/cubs-impress-as-vfl-tigers-holdoff-magpies

 

[Goldust]

I've never once ignored the criticism of Ellis' game. I offered reasons as to why he hadn't come on like some expected. Those reasons have been constantly ignored and disregarded by both you and TI in particular.

As for stats, the reason I use them us because they are factual. They aren't based on opinion, it is what has happened in the game.

As for not getting picked well for one there was a lack of injuries, and seconddly the team was playing incredibly well with nobody really struggling for form post the Geelong game.

So if Player A gets 14 kicks, sprays three off the side of the boot out of bounds, hits an opposition player on the chest three times and misses two easy goals are the stats FACTUAL and CREDIBLE?
Me says, I would rather he got five good kicks.

 

[TigerImposter]

So if Player A gets 14 kicks, sprays three off the side of the boot out of bounds, hits an opposition player on the chest three times and misses two easy goals are the stats FACTUAL and CREDIBLE?
Me says, I would rather he got five good kicks.

BINGO

 

[JazMac]

So if Player A gets 14 kicks, sprays three off the side of the boot out of bounds, hits an opposition player on the chest three times and misses two easy goals are the stats FACTUAL and CREDIBLE?
Me says, I would rather he got five good kicks.

Who did that? Obviously not C Ellis in JLT2.

I saw that Jack singled CE out for praise for the quality of his play in the 2 pre-season games. (JR that is.) I think I would trust JR's assessment more than those of repeated detractors or from constant fanboys. He looked OK to me and seems to have improved on previous efforts; but I don't mind if he has to keep improving before getting his next chance in the 1s.

 

[Calcium Man]

Right now in the eyes of the coaches he is ahead of Lloyd and Miles.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Right now in the eyes of the coaches he is ahead of Lloyd and Miles.

Pfft! Coaches and players... what would they know!

 

[_RT_]

So if Player A gets 14 kicks, sprays three off the side of the boot out of bounds, hits an opposition player on the chest three times and misses two easy goals are the stats FACTUAL and CREDIBLE?
Me says, I would rather he got five good kicks.

Disposal efficiency % tells you whether the disposals were effective or not. You also look at the amount of contested possessions the player gets as well. 40-60% contested possessions you excuse a poor disposal efficiency. 80% uncontested and a poor disposal efficiency and you question the effectiveness.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Both of you have criticised Ellis for being a timid skinny kid yet in the 2 JLT games he has been among our leading tacklers, which flies in the face of the claims that he is a skinny timid kid.
.

Sorry RT,But he's not exactly going to avoid to tackle if he has no choice is he.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Ellis could have a season where he averaged 25 disposals & 5 tackles a game and kicked 15 goals for the season while finishing top 10 in the B&F and there would still be those questioning his spot.

That may happen if he plays for lolnorf.