Player Watch 32 Travis Cloke

[dansa]

Those players mentioned didn't go downhill before they left, only Dawes and that's because he lost confidence. He worked well in part of a team that's what it showed. The team breaking up made us weaker. Fact.
Forget what they have done at other clubs the fact is as a team they were gelling.

That's not fact. That is just your opinion.
The only evidence we can look to is of how each of them performed since then. That evidence clearly indicates that the rebuild was necessary.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

iggy pop said it all..

I just wanna be your dog

 

[jmac70]

That's not fact. That is just your opinion.
The only evidence we can look to is of how each of them performed since then. That evidence clearly indicates that the rebuild was necessary.

We rebuilt? When did this happen?

 

[Apex36]

We rebuilt? When did this happen?

Not sure if serious.

 

[jmac70]

Not sure if serious.

I'm dead serious. Our trading over the past five years has been no different to most clubs. We tried to regenerate the list whilst also trying to stay competitive with experienced players. I would not say we have entered into a full rebuild.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm bored.

 

[jmac70]

I'm bored.

Go for a walk. The sun is shining for once.

 

[Apex36]

I'm dead serious. Our trading over the past five years has been no different to most clubs. We tried to regenerate the list whilst also trying to stay competitive with experienced players. I would not say we have entered into a full rebuild.

We only had 3 premiership players playing on Friday night. We've hit the draft aggressively by trading out players from 2012-14 and traded aggressively in 2015.

I'm not sure what else to call it when the list is barely recognisable compared to what it was 4-5 years ago?

 

[dansa]

We rebuilt? When did this happen?

I said the re-build was necessary.

Call it what you will. We needed to move some big names on and regenerate the list.
Unfortunately our recruiting and drafting has been disappointing. We have some way to go.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Go for a walk. The sun is shining for once.

I'm the chairman of the bored




(whooshka over your head)

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I'm bored.

just another slimy bore

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We only had 3 premiership players playing on Friday night. We've hit the draft aggressively by trading out players from 2012-14 and traded aggressively in 2015.

I'm not sure what else to call it when the list is barely recognisable compared to what it was 4-5 years ago?

StKilda have lost roughly the same number of players since 2010 as have Geelong since the same time period.

At the end of the day its semantics about how you define the turnover ( I'd call it a mini rebuild myself but call it whatever you like).

History undeniably says only Shaw has played well since he left.

 

[Apex36]

StKilda have lost roughly the same number of players since 2010.

At the end of the day its semantics about how you define the turnover ( I'd call it a mini rebuild myself but call it whatever you like).

History undeniably says only Shaw has played well since he left.

Are you saying St Kilda hasn't gone through a list rebuild since 2010? Methinks that comment just reinforces what I was saying!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Are you saying St Kilda hasn't gone through a list rebuild since 2010? Methinks that comment just reinforces what I was saying!

I'm saying all teams turn over players and all teams will have massively different lists from one point in time to another point in time six years later. And youre cherry picking last weeks team of course. Reid Fasolo Swan Maccaffer Cloke are all still listed players at the club...

Call it a rebuild if you like. Call it anything you want. Its only a word.

 

[Apex36]

I'm saying all teams turn over players and all teams will have massively different lists from pne point in time to another six years later. And youre cherry picking last weeks team of course. Reid Fasolo Swan Maccaffer are all still listed players at the club....

Ok? Your point would probably have been made better if you replaced Fas with Toovey given Fas is not a premiership player.
Player turnover is one thing, but the pies have turned over significantly more core players than the likes of Hawthorn et al, who have had the same core group of players (Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Lewis, Roughead) in their engine room during that same period. Their only notable major loss has been Franklin, (and obviously Roughead this year) whereas we've lost Thomas, Beams, Didak, Wellingham, Ball, and now looking like Swan and Cloke.
This is not neccessarily all the fault of the club. Unforeseeable circumstances and injuries have conspired against the club and have turned what was looking like a mini rebuild in to a full blown rebuild of the teams engine room, with essentially only Pendlebury remaining from back in that period.

I guess that's where the definition of a rebuild versus simple list turnover lies for me. It may have turned in to a forced rebuild, but it's been a rebuild rather than basic turnover.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Fas played in the 11 Grand Final. Reasonable to include him

Just as its ridiculous to include Ball and Didak as players we have lost to some sort of rebuild. They RETIRED as will Swan.

No matter how you define it (and who cares how its defined) only ONE player we have lost has done anything remotely resembling decent since he left.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I'm the chairman of the bored




(whooshka over your head)

Is that you Frank?

 

[Apex36]

Fas played in the 11 Grand Final. Reasonable to include him

Just as its ridiculous to include Ball and Didak as players we have lost to some sort of rebuild. They RETIRED as will Swan.

No matter how you define it (and who cares how its defined) only ONE player we have lost has done anything remotely resembling decent since he left.

I'm not sure why it's an issue how or why players left? I never said those players were 'lost to a rebuild', I simply said they were amongst players that we lost, which may have forced our hand in to a full rebuild rather than the mini one you suggested.

It's unreasonable to include Fasolo, as I was specifically talking about clear, best 22 engine room type key players. Fasolo was fringe at the time. The only reason he even played was because Beams sat out with an injury at the last minute.

I'm not trying to turn this in to an argument as to whether the players who have departed have been performing well, and I'm not trying to argue that moving certain players on wasn't justified. I'm really not sure why you're going down this road?

 

[CFC2010]

Collingwood
Travis Cloke admits future at Collingwood is clouded

LAUREN WOOD, Herald Sun
an hour ago

TRAVIS Cloke may not have the patience required to see his situation turn, according to Collingwood premiership player Mick McGuane.

McGuane, a two-time best and fairest winner at the Magpies, believes it is clear that coach Nathan Buckley doesn’t see Cloke as part of the team’s setup.

“With Nathan Buckley’s directive right now, I’m saying no,” he said.

“You can see that Bucks probably thinks that Travis isn’t in the scheme of things based on his decision earlier in the year (to drop him).

“(He said) he didn’t have the thirst for the contest, he had to go back and find that. Until he found that, he wasn’t going to be played.

“When he did eventually get that going and came back into the team. But to be dropped three times in one year, when you’re the marquee forward (and) on good money, I’m not sure whether or not he’s got the patience that is required for him to turn it around.”

McGuane said looking to forward Jesse White to steer the ship inside 50 may not be the best option.

“Jesse White’s the one for me that’s probably been looked at, which has surprised me,” he said on RSN.

“We know he’s athletic, but does he provide it enough? Can he kick a goal that matters, and does he do enough defensively for forward 50?.”


Collingwood is facing a make-or-break week at the selection table as it decides the fate of out-of-favour forward Travis Cloke.

The 29-year-old was dropped for the third time this season on Saturday and kicked five goals for the Magpies’ VFL outfit, which sits one game clear atop the VFL ladder with two rounds remaining.

If Cloke plays in the VFL on Saturday against Box Hill, he will qualify to play finals for the flag fancy.

If he plays in the AFL — against Gold Coast on Saturday night — he will be ruled ineligible to feature in the VFL finals series as VFL rules state that players must “have played no more than 12 AFL home-and-away matches, to be eligible to play in VFL finals series matches”.

He admitted his disappointment at being dropped again on Saturday, and said he is still “unsure” about his playing future.

“I still love the club. The club is a great place so just, wait and see I guess,” he said.

“If things come to that and we part ways, that happens.”

media_cameraTravis Cloke marks over a Port Melbourne opponent in the VFL. Picture: David Crosling
Cloke — who is contracted for next season — has been heavily linked to the Western Bulldogs, with Whitten Oval believed to be the forward’s preferred new home.

But seven-time All-Australian forward Wayne Carey doesn’t think it would be the best fit for the player he said won’t be any club’s “saviour”.

“He hasn’t had a kick for 18 months. Who’s to suggest if he goes to the Bulldogs he will even get a kick?,” Carey said.

“Why would the Bulldogs go about that when they’re trying to develop a kid like (Tom) Boyd, Zaine Cordy, (Jake) Stringer? Don’t get me wrong — I think Trav needs a fresh start.

“But the simple facts are, he has not played anywhere near his best footy for two years.”

Carey doesn’t dispute that a move would revitalise the 29-year-old, but said the club he plays for next season should not expect him to solve all of its problems.

“Don’t talk about him being the saviour of whatever club he goes to, because he’s not going to do that,” he said on Triple M.

”(Collingwood) is not a top club, and he’s been dropped three times. It says a bit about it.

“He’s got a fair bit of work to do. Yes, a fresh start will help him because it will revitalise him — it’s a new plan, it’s a new coach, it’s all of those things.

“But don’t think that he’s just going to go to a new club and become a 10-mark, eight (of them) contested player again.”

 

[Markfs]

Lust for life?

i'm bored

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not trying to turn this in to an argument as to whether the players who have departed have been performing well, and I'm not trying to argue that moving certain players on wasn't justified. I'm really not sure why you're going down this road?

Because the proof is in the pudding. If you move players on and they turn to shit at their new clubs, that is unequivocal proof that moving them on was the right call. And that is (so far) the case for everybody except Shaw and arguabluy one season our of four from Wellingham.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Jolly and Ball and Leigh Brown came to the club and filled important gaps that helped us win a flag.

But they were gone quickly being late age recruits. Adding to the impending retirements of Johnson Didak Davis and Maxwell and the limited abilites of Toovey Dawes Maccaffer Blair Goldsack and arguably Brown O'Brien and even Cloke, a mini rebuild was wise not only at the time but also in hindsight. And thats without delving into off field issues...

 

[Apex36]

Because the proof is in the pudding. If you move players on and they turn to shit at their new clubs, that is unequivocal proof that moving them on was the right call. And that is (so far) the case for everybody except Shaw and arguabluy one season our of four from Wellingham.

That's really nice and all, but I don't believe I ever attempted to make a statement as to whether moving certain players on was the right or wrong decision at the time? The only thing I've tried to say was what I believe is classed as a rebuild. This feels like you're trying to start a fight that was never there in the first place.

Me: I think we've had a rebuild. We've lost, and had to turn over significantly large parts of the engine room that brought us a premiership.

You: YEAH BUT THEY'VE BEEN SHIT AT THEIR NEW CLUBS! IT NEEDED TO HAPPEN!!

Me: ok? But that's not really my poin....

You: UNEQUOVICAL PROOF THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Buckley wisely and correctly determined that our list in 2010/11/12 (which started its run in 2007) was not going to win us another flag. So in 2013 he started to trade players to try and ensure our dip was not too deep. Not an easy thing to do and not successful yet but if 12th is the lowest we go then at least thats a start.

Call the strategy what you will. Rebuild. Mini Rebuild. Reality. Business As Usual Turnover. Whatever want to call it. It doesnt matter really. He was right to recognise some premiership players did not have a future at Collingwood.

 

[Apex36]

Buckley wisely and correctly determined that our list in 2010/11/12 (which started its run in 2007) was not going to win us another flag. So in 2013 he started to trade players to try and ensure our dip was not too deep. Not an easy thing to do and not successful yet but if 12th is the lowest we go then at least thats a start.

Call the strategy what you will. Rebuild. Mini Rebuild. Reality. Business As Usual Turnover. Whatever want to call it. It doesnt matter really. He was right to recognise some premiership players did not have a future at Collingwood.

I'm still not sure why you're insisting on justifying the reasons to me? At no point have I criticised the club for embarking on the rebuild, nor have I said we would be better positioned without it.

I feel like I'm being lectured about things I'm already perfectly aware of here, just because you don't seem to like the word 'rebuild'. Please just stop lol.