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Player Watch 32 Travis Cloke

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mattys123 said:
Did they question the captain?

Sorry but he's been under performing too, although we aren't allowed to say it apparently.

Harsh to "drop" Travis Cloke based on an under performing midfield and terrible run out of the backline, which has resulted in us being one of, if not the least efficient side in the AFL going forward.

Put Clokey in a good team and he'd still be kicking close to 50 goals a year and leading the AFL for contested marks.

Has his form been below expectation? Yes, but so has just about everyone else who has worn our jumper this year, including every player in the leadership group bar Taylor Adams.

Should we drop them all too? Oh wait, can't do that, only drop the scape goat.
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I agree and disagree. Cloke was the only name that Stevens mentioned, but he did mention that there were a number of players who were shaken up.

Pendlebury has been very ordinary by his standards, and you are very right to point that out.

But I don't think it has just been the delivery to Cloke that's been the issue. He doesn't attack the ball, he doesn't throw himself into contests, and he doesn't tackle anymore. When your out of form it's up to the player to get to as many contests and have an impact and eventually luck turns into form.

Kicking a bag of goals in the VFL might be just what he needs.
 

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jmac70 said:
Cloke has his faults but he has been a warrior for our club. In our darkest hour he should be given the opportunity to turn around his form and contribute to a win. IMO, playing him in the VFL instead is an act of betrayal by the club.
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This.

(He can't kick goals if they don't kick it to him.)
 
Smoky said:
He also can't kick them if he's 30 meters out, directly in front.
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That has been the case since 2007. Do you think that dropping him to the VFL will change that?
 
jmac70 said:
That has been the case since 2007. Do you think that dropping him to the VFL will change that?
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Not dropping him has only made him go backwards. Dropping him may just shake his head into gear.
 
Smoky said:
Not dropping him has only made him go backwards. Dropping him may just shake his head into gear.
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Well we are not going to agree so let's wait and see what the club does. I suspect that if he is passed fit he will play. If not he will be rested. I highly doubt he will play in the VFL.
 

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jmac70 said:
Cloke has his faults but he has been a warrior for our club. In our darkest hour he should be given the opportunity to turn around his form and contribute to a win. IMO, playing him in the VFL instead is an act of betrayal by the club.
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I agree with you that he has been a warrior for our club. But one of our biggest problems as a club and supporter group (me included) is that we always over estimate our players worth. We jump up and down and threaten blue murder on our players that ask to be traded yet happily accept players that come to us for the same reason.

AFL is a business and in the business world if an employee is not performing, there are meetings with management and the employee is put on a performance review plan. If the employee does not perform then it is time to move them on. Personally I advocated to move him on at the end of last year because his form has worsened for the past 3 years and I felt that if he had another year like the last two it would significantly impact what we would get for him if the time came.

Although his disposal stats have changed marginally, what is alarming his the drop in his contested marks and goals per game.
This year Cloke has kicked 5 goals in 4 games. 4 goals have come from handball receives in the goal square and the other was a right foot snap from 30m. He has taken 7 marks inside 50 for 3 points only. Not a good return in any sense, more so when he is being paid $850,000 per year.
 
Roverjg said:
I agree with you that he has been a warrior for our club. But one of our biggest problems as a club and supporter group (me included) is that we always over estimate our players worth. We jump up and down and threaten blue murder on our players that ask to be traded yet happily accept players that come to us for the same reason.

AFL is a business and in the business world if an employee is not performing, there are meetings with management and the employee is put on a performance review plan. If the employee does not perform then it is time to move them on. Personally I advocated to move him on at the end of last year because his form has worsened for the past 3 years and I felt that if he had another year like the last two it would significantly impact what we would get for him if the time came.

Although his disposal stats have changed marginally, what is alarming his the drop in his contested marks and goals per game.
This year Cloke has kicked 5 goals in 4 games. 4 goals have come from handball receives in the goal square and the other was a right foot snap from 30m. He has taken 7 marks inside 50 for 3 points only. Not a good return in any sense, more so when he is being paid $850,000 per year.
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I agree he is horribly out of form, but let's be honest, he is not on his own there. His salary is irrelevant when discussing his place in the side.
If we are to save this season we need Cloke playing well. How we achieve that is of course a matter for debate. I don't have a problem with players being dropped on form, including Cloke, I just don't think this is the time to do it. Things can turn very quickly if Cloke and a few others find some touch against a very weak Bombers team.
 
jmac70 said:
I agree he is horribly out of form, but let's be honest, he is not on his own there. His salary is irrelevant when discussing his place in the side.
If we are to save this season we need Cloke playing well. How we achieve that is of course a matter for debate. I don't have a problem with players being dropped on form, including Cloke, I just don't think this is the time to do it. Things can turn very quickly if Cloke and a few others find some touch against a very weak Bombers team.
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I agree with you, however, how long do we keep going with this?. I do not believe our game plan suits him and as long as we persevere with it I do not see him improving.These are his stats since Round 13 last year.
R13. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R14. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 4; Marks inside 50: 3
R15. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R16. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R17. DNP
R18. DNP
R19. DNP
R20. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 3; Marks inside 50: 2
R21. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 1
R22. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R23. DNP
R1. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R2. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 2 - goal was a right foot snap from 30m
R3. Goals: 2; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 3 - 2 goals were from handball receives in goal square
R4 Goals: 2; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 2 - 2 goals were from handball receives in goal square
 
For me he is playing behind his man too often and not flying for the ball and crashing packs. I agree the delivery is poor, but he hasn't even looked dangerous this season.

Moore on the other hand doesn't find much of the ball but really goes for it when it's in his area and look a tonne more dangerous.

By dropping him, Bucks might actually be looking to purposely scapegoating him to make him angry hoping he responds with some more aggression when he gets back into the side.
 
Glad Bucks has had the stones to do what he should have done after round 1. There's still a couple of very good years left in Cloke, he just needs to prove it to himself. A spell in the two's, if it becomes that, should put some fire in the belly.
 

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jmac70 said:
I agree he is horribly out of form, but let's be honest, he is not on his own there. His salary is irrelevant when discussing his place in the side.
If we are to save this season we need Cloke playing well. How we achieve that is of course a matter for debate. I don't have a problem with players being dropped on form, including Cloke, I just don't think this is the time to do it. Things can turn very quickly if Cloke and a few others find some touch against a very weak Bombers team.
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Tend to agree. Although his output isn't up to previous levels, he's being used in a different manner also. I actually think the last couple weeks he has been better. (That's coming from a low base of course). A couple of his efforts last week were concerning having said that. He's a man mountain and even if he isn't playing well it shouldn't stop him from crunching packs and throwing his weight around. He's not really doing that. I've always thought he is a bit 'nice' towards opposition players. I'd love to see him be a lot more aggressive.

I think there probably should be a few others worried about their spot in the team before Cloke. If we indeed drop him to the VFL, surely its almost white flag time.
 
campbell023 said:
Good to see leading teams is bringing the players together, so we can form some continuity on the field :$
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I've heard allot about leading teams lately, what do they do?
 
Roverjg said:
I agree with you, however, how long do we keep going with this?. I do not believe our game plan suits him and as long as we persevere with it I do not see him improving.These are his stats since Round 13 last year.
R13. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R14. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 4; Marks inside 50: 3
R15. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R16. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R17. DNP
R18. DNP
R19. DNP
R20. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 3; Marks inside 50: 2
R21. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 1
R22. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R23. DNP
R1. Goals: 0; Contested Marks: 0; Marks inside 50: 0
R2. Goals: 1; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 2 - goal was a right foot snap from 30m
R3. Goals: 2; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 3 - 2 goals were from handball receives in goal square
R4 Goals: 2; Contested Marks: 1; Marks inside 50: 2 - 2 goals were from handball receives in goal square
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No they weren't
 
jmac70 said:
I agree he is horribly out of form, but let's be honest, he is not on his own there. His salary is irrelevant when discussing his place in the side.
If we are to save this season we need Cloke playing well. How we achieve that is of course a matter for debate. I don't have a problem with players being dropped on form, including Cloke, I just don't think this is the time to do it. Things can turn very quickly if Cloke and a few others find some touch against a very weak Bombers team.
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Cloke is not the only player under Buckley going backwards. As Tim Watson stated, he is not much good at reading the play and needs a simple game plan, which Buckley cannot deliver. It is depressing to watch so many players go backwards and lose their confidence. Something is terribly wrong that we cannot play to the strengths of our player group.
 
mike123 said:
I've heard allot about leading teams lately, what do they do?
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It's like an honesty session. I've done one before when I was playing football when I was 18 and it was pretty daunting in a senior group. This was a while ago I can't really remember it all but the main exercise was you had to name 3 things that a player does well and 3 things not so well. We were told to be as brutally honest as possible. The 3 things that you don't do well is obviously what can go wrong with all because people take it away with them
and work on it, or they take it to heart.
 
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