- Aug 15, 2015
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Cumbo had a real crack last night, and looked our most dangerous forward. Looks to me to be covering more ground, only hope now he can find that goal kicking boot that’s gone missing.
Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland
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You are on your own wave length here.
I never said Mansell was above average, so I don't know where you conjured that one from.
Bayley Fritsch's average rating in 2024 is 9.33 and his operative average over the last few years in his role is a little bit above that. Mansell's 2024 average rating(well above his previous average) is 7.88. So your point there is based on you incorrectly assuming Mansell would have a higher rating than Fritsch.
Cumberland's 2022 ratings were above what Mansell is producing now(Mansell is the 42nd highest rated of 118 "medium" forwards in the comp based on 2024 average performance, this includes all specialist forwards who are not key forwards.)
But my point was Cumberland's last 10 performances have been so poor it would be very wrong to be selecting him over Mansell based on Cumberland's 2022 purple patch.
A player kicking goals only has the type of value you are trying to assign to it if he is creating the goal opportunities himself, or at least playing in a manner that adds net goals overall to the team's performance.
Another way to look at it...a team full of players playing how Cumberland does v a team full of players playing how Mansell does, who wins?
- Apr 27, 2014
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ALL this effort talking about a future vfl player in Mansell.
And were putrid in the process
MT you're on the Cumberland thread putting up Mansell's ratings v cumbos, that tells me you rate this guy higher than what im stating which is average and that is fine, I personally don't rate him he is a trier granted and goes in not soft but doesnt bring much else to the table to be considered a dangerous forward.
Sometimes you just got to see with your eyes what players do on the field and not just base it on champion data etc
Second point, re Fritsch his ratings are based on one thing kicking goals. He doesnt apply pressure, and doesnt tackle.
In their loss today V eagles he had 9 disposals, 1 tackle, 7 pressure acts, 3 marks and kicked 3 goals. The 3 goals kicked will bump his ratings up. If he doesnt kick a goal for the next 4 games you think his ratings would be high? Of course not as I said they are based on him hitting the scoreboard.
Noidnadroj
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I’m glad Cumbo is getting an opportunity at AFL level to either extend his career or be delisted. But I don’t think goals kicked from the goal square should be used as any sort of evidence he’s a better forward than others.
Winning contests in the forward half and creating turnovers (by tackles, pressure and intercepts) are the most valuable tools any forward can bring. If a forward isn’t doing that they are next to useless… that goes for Cumbo, Lefau, Martin or Lynch.
Inability to regularly win contests in the forward half is what results in us not cracking 50 points in the last 4 matches.
This is not a knock on Cumbo, it’s the whole forward line unit. I’d pick whichever forwards can win contests, as that’s what results in the team’s scoreboard ticking over … if that’s Cumbo, great. I hope he calms down a bit and continues to gain confidence, as I believe he does have more upside than Mansell and we desperately need a hybrid type forward who ‘plays tall’.
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I posted the ratings of Cumberland v Mansell only in response to you nominating Mansell as a player who was held to a different standard by the selectors compared to Cumberland.
On Mansell I will say this. He is a noticeably better footballer and forward this season than he was in previous seasons. Just watching on TV is enough to tell me that. But his player ratings confirm it. His avrage rating in 2023 was 4.68, in 2024 in 7.88. This current year rating is not close to making him a star, but he is our highest rated medium forward this season ahead of Maurice Jnr and Dusty, and they are all in the AFl average range for their roles. Mansell is rating higher on average than the following prominent players:
Owies, who has 15 goals.
Schultz, who was just traded for a late rd 1 + late rd 2 pick.
Charlie Cameron
Jack Ginnivan
Phillipou, a highly rated youngster
Jamie Elliott
Conversely, his average rating is below the following less prominent players:
Lachlan Murphy
Chandler
Rayner
Close
Neal-Bullen
Now naturally the ratings are not a precise order of how valuable the players are. They don't take into account who your opponent is, or sacrificial running, or how effective you are as a scarecrow on the fat side deterring the opposition switching play when in possession and many other unquantifiable things. But the players with good ratings get them due to accumulating actions that benefit their team. They are not made up. This year, for whatever reason, Mansell is getting into the play a lot more. His disposals, contested possessions, tackles and pressure acts have all risen significantly from last year, as have his goals + assists and overall score involvements. Mansell is not going to be any superstar, but he could get a game for most teams without noticeably weakening them.
It is clear the club is asking Cumberland to play more like Mansell, and not the other way around. This wouldn't be because the Richmond brains trust doesn't understand football. It is way more likely to be because Cumberland himself does not understand football. If our football department was obviously wrong in its assessment of the two players then other clubs would be lining up to take Cumberland off our hands. That they are not is instructive.
- Feb 14, 2014
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True to form he will most likely be dropped. No idea why but he probably will be.
I hate to say it but it's most likely the case, I'm baffled why it took the coaches weeks to give him a go.
We need his craft and spark up forward.
I bet once he settles into the team his kicking in front of goal will be much improved.
Kid is suffering from a lack of confidence thanks to Dimma, we need to get him past that hurdle and we all win.
Cumbos kicking reminds of my golf swing , where I’ll often be directly in front of green 80 out and inexplicably end up 25m Left or right of the green ,, that’s cumbo lining up for goal ,, every time
- Aug 15, 2015
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Lol, that shank from cumbo was a shocker and reminded me of a few of my golf efforts
Fair enough but Cumbo has played one full game that's it lets give him some games to gain some confidence and continue to grow as a player. Agree he has more upside than Mansell who I dare say isn't a natural forward and never seems to be in the right spot when the ball is coming inside forward 50.
Re goal square give him some credit he actually dropped the mark and was quick enough to get to the ball first and out run his opponents and kick the goal that's how it happened.
The other a tap over from Pickett and Cumbo ran fast to open goals. Similar to Mansell received a handball off picket and kicked a simple goal around the body,
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No he wont be dropped Cumbo was our best forward. Plus we have Mansell out due to concussion and hopefully Lefau hasn't cracked his jaw and plays in dreamtime.
Sonsie was probably our weakest link and I want this guy to make it but depends on the ins, will baker and hopper come in.
banks available and not sure on Seth Campbell whether available or one more week.
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Hmm he does it more than a bit ,,, just like meLol, that shank from cumbo was a shocker and reminded me of a few of my golf efforts
WTF has happened to his set shot goal kicking?
- Feb 14, 2014
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That would be me, Cumbo much more skillful than George, Cumbo in the 2017 -2020 team would do much better.
- Aug 15, 2015
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He’s got the yips.
There was the shank that Bo was referring to, And then on another set shot he was trying to kick around the corner from 45m out on the boundary. That shot was right side for a left footer to run out open up the goal face and hook in.
Just lost all confidence.
I’m pretty sure Carlton, got reviewed Harry McKays goal kicking technique last year. It seems to have worked to some degree.Maybe Noah needs a little extra help in that area
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- Apr 30, 2016
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They need to play him all year for mine. Simple facts are Campbell kicked 3 in first 2 games then went goalless for 7 games. Mansell has only kicked 6 in 9 games, MRJ 7 in 8 games and they were all playing when our list was much healthier and our mids were getting it in our f50. The delivery has been atrocious and 2 goals 1st game back was a mighty effort. Even Dusty and Bolton are struggling to score lately. He's proven he's good for 1.5 goals a game, needs to build his confidence and feel like he's part of the future plans and he could be that nightmare matchup Bailey Fritch type who just helps the scoreboard keep ticking over.
The pressure him and Lefau will cop until Lynch and our best mids return will help fast track their development, and let's be honest goalkickers are worth their weight in gold. Noah's goals per game eclipses blokes like the King brose and JUH whilst being on bargain basement salary. And doubtful they were rarely starting sub or subbed out unlike Noah who has been at least 1/3 of his career thus far, plus his debut game he never even got on the ground. I hope we hang on to him and they really work on his goal kicking routine.
It's probably result of growing up in QLD as their Auskick coaches probably never actually played AFL and let him go as a little tacker. For whatever reason he's a whipping boy around here, but it's simple maths the team that kicks the highest score wins. People fail to realise Coulthard had 3 touches in 50% gametime. That's including 1 ineffective and that goal that he should be embarrassed for stealing from Ralphsmith, so our small/ medium fwd stocks are pretty rubbish too.
The pressure him and Lefau will cop until Lynch and our best mids return will help fast track their development, and let's be honest goalkickers are worth their weight in gold. Noah's goals per game eclipses blokes like the King brose and JUH whilst being on bargain basement salary. And doubtful they were rarely starting sub or subbed out unlike Noah who has been at least 1/3 of his career thus far, plus his debut game he never even got on the ground. I hope we hang on to him and they really work on his goal kicking routine.
It's probably result of growing up in QLD as their Auskick coaches probably never actually played AFL and let him go as a little tacker. For whatever reason he's a whipping boy around here, but it's simple maths the team that kicks the highest score wins. People fail to realise Coulthard had 3 touches in 50% gametime. That's including 1 ineffective and that goal that he should be embarrassed for stealing from Ralphsmith, so our small/ medium fwd stocks are pretty rubbish too.
Groupie_
time to return the traditional Richmond yellow
the flip u doin there
Frustrated Tiger
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Eating bahn mis and getting massages
The thing that puts pressure on defenders is forwards that kick goals. I like Mansell but defenders that play on him know they can run off Mansell knowing that Mansell is unlikely to punish them by scoring goals. Look at Zorko on the weekend. He couldn’t care less about our small forwards. Apart from Cumberland why would he?
