Delisted #39: Trent Mynott - Delisted - 24/10

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BrunoV said:
We have this same discussion year in year out. The guy everyone makes excuses for then gets delisted and we start again.

It takes someone to be inside football to understand why you'd play a liability to prove a point about what you'd like other players to do if they were listening to you.
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In your opinion of course.

Sometimes you have to have standards. The problem has not been us playing the fringe players who play a role. The issue has been allowing the poor culture to get ingrained in the top end of town and not having consequences for it. Playing Guelfi is the least of our issues. You do not rate him which is fine but how many fringe types did the Tigers have in their 2017 premiership side that no one rated in 2015 or 2016 ?

The way around it is draft players willing to play a role. I will throw two out there that a lot of people where not convinced about before the draft but I was really big on.
Jack Graham who every one said was too vanilla and a man child with no upside. Not a super star but plays his role and will give 100% week in and week out for the side. Played the same way in the Champs as he does now.
James Worpel. Another who slid because people could not see the upside despite the fact he sacrificed his game several times in the later half of the season at the Falcons and played injured in the last 5 games including finals.
Drafting these types is the answer.
The answer is not giving Mynott two more years because he may have a little better ability than Guelfi.
 
ant555 said:
In your opinion of course.

Sometimes you have to have standards. The problem has not been us playing the fringe players who play a role. The issue has been allowing the poor culture to get ingrained in the top end of town and not having consequences for it. Playing Guelfi is the least of our issues. You do not rate him which is fine but how many fringe types did the Tigers have in their 2017 premiership side that no one rated in 2015 or 2016 ?

The way around it is draft players willing to play a role. I will throw two out there that a lot of people where not convinced about before the draft but I was really big on.
Jack Graham who every one said was too vanilla and a man child with no upside. Not a super star but plays his role and will give 100% week in and week out for the side. Played the same way in the Champs as he does now.
James Worpel. Another who slid because people could not see the upside despite the fact he sacrificed his game several times in the later half of the season at the Falcons and played injured in the last 5 games including finals.
Drafting these types is the answer.
The answer is not giving Mynott two more years because he may have a little better ability than Guelfi.
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Sorry ant but this is a reconstruction and the examples dont work.

Worpel was good, but also overlooked, because he sacrificed his game which is why he is now good playing as a starting 3 mid getting 30 a game?

Neither he nor Graham was overlooked because they had a few quiet games as they sacrificed their games.

They're that mould of intelligent mid with no standout attribute who are smart enough to play roles but who lack speed, might have dodgy disposal, look to have peaked physically early, etc who always fall.

That's why they're overlooked. They're quality players and they can play roles.

Guelfi is not a quality player and marginally plays roles. There always seems to be this false premise that a player is a role player or he's a quality player, sometimes it's expressed as "he's an athlete and not a footballer". It's the same nonsense.

Ironically enough in May this year Mynott looked like another Graham or Worpel. Very solid, intelligent if unspectacular mid.

Mynott has been squeezed because we massively overrate our list, doing things like keeping Long for 5 years, and then panic and cull the kids every 5 years.

It happened in 2015 and 2012 before that. Nothing O'Brien (25 touches a game as an AFL player who I didnt like by the way), Brown and co could have done would have kept them on the list because we need to hold on to the other duds.

I'll believe this is a new dawn of list management, reflecting objective standards, when I see some results.
 
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BrunoV said:
Sorry ant but this is a reconstruction and the examples dont work.

Worpel was good, but also overlooked, because he sacrificed his game which is why he is now good playing as a starting 3 mid getting 30 a game?

Neither he nor Graham was overlooked because they had a few quiet games as they sacrificed their games.

They're that mould of intelligent mid with no standout attribute who are smart enough to play roles but who lack speed, might have dodgy disposal, look to have peaked physically early, etc who always fall.

That's why they're overlooked. They're quality players and they can play roles.
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Lets get on the same page here. I never said anything about clubs over looking them. My comment was about general discussion about them. I saw them as good second round picks(or lat first in Worpels case). Good players who had what it takes to play the style of footy I like and I think we lack. A few other draft watchers did not really agree. I never said clubs over looked them because of the quiet games or games where they did a specific role. My point was actually these are the types we need to draft so we are not playing blokes who came in via the rookie draft but get games because they can play a role. No more Houlihans in the second round.

BrunoV said:
is not a quality player and marginally plays roles. There always seems to be this false premise that a player is a role player or he's a quality player, sometimes it's expressed as "he's an athlete and not a footballer". It's the same nonsense.
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Never said he is a quality player but he is not marginal at playing a role. He is the bloke who continually fills the defensive gap when our cream players decide not to. Who is the bloke who busts a gut trying to cover Zak Merritts opponent when he is caught ball watching? He is not really big enough to be physical but it is him who tries to crash in, smother the ball and the player who will be doing the same thing in the last quarter. No he is not a star and in an ideal world he is not in the side but he is better than Mynott. We do need to start drafting a few more midfielders rather than flankers so we are not playing Guelfi every week. I also think you under rate him but that is okay as it is your opinion.

BrunoV said:
Ironically enough in May this year Mynott looked like another Graham or Worpel. Very solid, intelligent if unspectacular mid.
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Yeah . Nah. In may this year Mynott strung together some good VFL games. I agree. However he was still struggling to find an outside game and his form went down hill after that. Down hill to the point that in a finals series where he had a chance to stand up and he failed to deliver much at all. He certainly did not look like Graham who dominated a championship series for SA as captain and his clearance work and spread was nothing like what Worpal was doing at under level before he had his hip flexor issue late in the season.

BrunoV said:
has been squeezed because we massively overrate our list, doing things like keeping Long for 5 years, and then panic and cull the kids every 5 years.

Mynott has been squeezed out because he is not up to it and struggled to find anything else to go with what he had which was some inside ball winning ability. He has been squeezed out because Dylan Clarke and Snelling are better players.

It happened in 2015 and 2012 before that. Nothing O'Brien (25 touches a game as an AFL player who I didnt like by the way), Brown and co could have done would have kept them on the list because we need to hold on to the other duds.
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Mynott has been squeezed out because he is not up to it and struggled to find anything else to go with what he had which was some inside ball winning ability. He has been squeezed out because Dylan Clarke and Snelling are better players.
As far as Long goes. Should have been gone after last season.
As for the rest. If you are debating if OBrien or Browne would have been better than who we drafted or moved in front of them then you have missed the big picture totally.
The real issue is not how the fringe of the list has been managed.
The real issue is our top two midfielders are not in the best 25 in the comp and our third and fourth are not in the top 80.
We have limited players who will sacrifice their game.
We have about two blokes who play with a hard edge.
We have not had a culture of doing everything it takes(playing wise) since I do not know when.
We have had captains who are good players but did not really change their roles to carry the side.
The current one is starting to change his ways. Our leadership group has been average.
The way we have managed our bottom end picks really has jack s**t to do with why we are where we are and have been for 15 years.
On top of that we have had boards who seem to think making money is the main objective.

BrunoV said:
I'll believe this is a new dawn of list management, reflecting objective standards, when I see some results.
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I want to see it as well but in reality the current football department has only one person who is linked all the way back. Adrian Dodoro. Given he is list manager one could be a bit cautious about us changing our draft selection ways even if he has had some very good wins along the way.
 

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