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Society & Culture 457 visa abuse

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Frank Bunn

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sorted said:
Companies will offshore any roles that can be done overseas for less money - whether skilled or unskilled. But it's often done dishonestly such as under the guise of a 'restructure'. Or making out that the company operates globally to justify (indirectly) employing thousands of staff based overseas - when the vast majority of the company's revenue is earned in Australia. I'm also seeing work 'offshored' but then those overseas based workers spend significant time doing the work in Australia.
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What I said above is backed up by the report below about the scandalous use of 457 visas.

My recent experience is that I have been applying for IT jobs that my skills and experience are perfectly suited for. And not even being shortlisted. It's not surprising as on some job websites you can see the number of applicants and it can be up to 200 for each role. Yet in my Melbourne office I am literally surrounded by workers from India on 457 visas. If experienced professionals are not getting a sniff then graduates can forget it.

The answer would seem to be simple. Revoke the 457 visa category, which doesn’t require employers to check first if skilled local workers are available.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...k/news-story/9d9aa8ed5ee2473607513ad26c7819ad

THOUSANDS of foreign computer workers are being imported on low wages while Australians struggle to find jobs, according to a new report.

Previously unpublished data reveals that many of the IT experts, mostly Indians on 457 visas working in Melbourne and Sydney, are earning base salaries up to $46,000 less than the Australian average.

Indian IT firms are using the 457 system to send workers for contracts won in Australia, and are then taking as much of the work as possible back to low-cost India.

The practice has been exposed by the Australian Population Research Institute in its report, Immigration Overflow: Why it Matters.

The study said that in 2015-16, a total of 7452 computer analysts, programmers and networkers were given the 457 visa, which doesn’t require employers to check first if local workers are available.

A further 9733 computer professionals came to Australia on permanent skilled visas last year, pushing the total IT intake to more than 17,000

Report lead author Dr Bob Birrell said it was a scandal that the Federal Government was importing so many IT professionals into a soft job market.

“This extraordinary outcome is occurring at a time when there is an oversupply of resident graduates and when the government is encouraging local students to enrol in IT courses,” he said.

His report, co-written with Ernest Healy and Bob Kinnaird, revealed that three-quarters of all IT workers (5671 people) given 457 visas last year were Indian.

While the average Australian salary for non-manager computer professionals was $100,000 in 2014, more than 60 per cent of the Indians earned under $70,180 — and 28 per cent less than $53,900. Dr Birrell said the Immigration Department data contradicted industry claims the 457 workers were paid market rates, when in fact their much lower pay gave Indian service companies an enormous competitive advantage in tendering for IT work.

“Their success here also means they are in a good position to provide clients with the low-cost option of moving the operations they have installed to their offshore offices,” he said.

The report also took aim at the “myth” that the 128,000-plus permanent skilled migrants arriving each year were “highly trained”.

It said Australia’s migration points test used soft selection criteria for overseas applicants, while foreign students who applied after graduating from Australian universities did not need local job experience.
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Bunk Moreland said:
What's the labor party got to say?

Or have they entirely forgotten the Australia worker?
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Thankfully the Coalition has been slowly paring the scheme back, but it's still not quite what it used to be pre Rudd. My profession, as an example, has been removed from the skilled shortage list relatively recently. A profession where 88 graduated from my university alone last year...there was never any shortage.

As a side note, Barnaby Joyce's comments about requiring foreign professionals on 457s to fill gaps in regional areas are absolutely off the mark. He claims that his physician, dentist etc are on 457s because Australian dentists/doctors/etc are unwilling to work regionally/rurally. No need to import anyone from India Barnaby, I'm happy to be your dentist.

He makes the assumption that graduates prefer to stay in capital cities - that's certainly not the case for all of us. Most of my graduating class work in small towns, and the only reason I work in Melbourne is because it's where I found work, not because I prefer to be here. Even if there was no desire for graduates to work regionally, have the government mandate it through schemes similar to bonded medical places.
 
It always amuses me when the government argue that they need 457 visas for regional and rural areas because young Australians are moving away to cities etc.

Well, perhaps if the government didn't continue to shaft regional/rural areas forcing people to move away to find employment in the first place then it wouldn't be a problem.
 
The think about these visas is that there is hardly a job that is not on the list.

Eg an early childhood teacher, tax accountant, registered nurse - really!! If we cannot source people from within Australia for most of these jobs it is a total disgrace.

Its actually harder to find a profession that is not on the list I would say.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work...ng-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/CSOL
 

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I dont know what its like in other industries but for mechanics there was a time you couldn't find anyone because everyone went up north to chase the money. They needed 457s to fill the void. Most of the ones I know ended up getting permanent residency and staying in their job. Now mining is dying off people are trying to get jobs again and cracking the shits because there are no vacancies. If they weren't greedy in the first place they would still have a job. The 457s at my old work weren't getting bottom dollar either.

I know for a fact that some managers prefer 457s because they think they have a better work ethic. In a lot of cases its true unfortunately.
 
WCErevival said:
I dont know what its like in other industries but for mechanics there was a time you couldn't find anyone because everyone went up north to chase the money. They needed 457s to fill the void. Most of the ones I know ended up getting permanent residency and staying in their job. Now mining is dying off people are trying to get jobs again and cracking the shits because there are no vacancies. If they weren't greedy in the first place they would still have a job. The 457s at my old work weren't getting bottom dollar either.

I know for a fact that some managers prefer 457s because they think they have a better work ethic. In a lot of cases its true unfortunately.
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Got little sympathy for people who go off chasing the big bucks then come swanning back to their home towns like they have some god-given right to be earning ludicrous amounts of cash. That's the risk you take when you go off into an industry that can often leave you with a very specific skill set that is often not easily transferable.

Working in IT there are loads of guys on 457 Visa's. Its a very mixed bag. Most have decent skills but little ability to understand the nuances of a client. I've had very few 457's working with me or underneath me that I could just let them be. But if you ensure they have a clear understanding of what's needed the development work is usually very good. Employer's who stack their development team full of 457 workers usually end up in a world of pain and - as above - I have little sympathy for them. Employer's who think they can run a development team out of Asia paying $10 per man hour of work end up in even more pain.
 
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The Passenger said:
Working in IT there are loads of guys on 457 Visa's. Its a very mixed bag. Most have decent skills but little ability to understand the nuances of a client. I've had very few 457's working with me or underneath me that I could just let them be. But if you ensure they have a clear understanding of what's needed the development work is usually very good. Employer's who stack their development team full of 457 workers usually end up in a world of pain and - as above - I have little sympathy for them. Employer's who think they can run a development team out of Asia paying $10 per man hour of work end up in even more pain.
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There's always a mixed bag with IT employees and probably any other profession. The point with the 457 visas is that they are being granted by the thousands on the pretence that there is a general skills shortage. But there's not. There's actually an oversupply of skilled IT candidates.

Employers are making skilled Australian workers redundant then contracting out the work to Indian service companies whose lower paid employees move here on 457 visas. The 457 visa system is being abused by corporations who wish to reduce costs. There needs to be a thorough review of the system and tighter supervision of how it is administered.
 

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sorted said:
There's actually an oversupply of skilled IT candidates.
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Take out the word skilled and I'd agree. The general standard of programmers and developers is pretty low (worldwide, not just in Australia). A lot of people may be tertiary educated (which puts them in the skilled category) but it doesn't mean they can adequately develop software. But that is probably a discussion for another forum.
 
According to this story in the Age 'there have been no skill shortages in engineering since 2012-13, yet engineers are still listed on its skilled occupations list which is used to identify skills shortages that overseas workers can fill'. There is currently a massive oversupply of candidates vs vacancies.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/w...ns-struggle-to-find-jobs-20161220-gtes3q.html

But there's another aspect that the article reveals.

Engineers Australia, which carries out the migration skills assessments on behalf of the Department of Immigration, earned $8.8 million last financial year from the assessments - which represented 18 per cent of their total revenue. Not surprisingly they support keeping engineers on the skilled occupations list.

Similarly the Australian Computer Society have a nice little earner going charging up to $550 a pop for their assessments.

https://more.acs.org.au/migration-skills-assessment/costs-and-charges
 
sorted said:
According to this story in the Age 'there have been no skill shortages in engineering since 2012-13, yet engineers are still listed on its skilled occupations list which is used to identify skills shortages that overseas workers can fill'. There is currently a massive oversupply of candidates vs vacancies.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/w...ns-struggle-to-find-jobs-20161220-gtes3q.html

But there's another aspect that the article reveals.

Engineers Australia, which carries out the migration skills assessments on behalf of the Department of Immigration, earned $8.8 million last financial year from the assessments - which represented 18 per cent of their total revenue. Not surprisingly they support keeping engineers on the skilled occupations list.

Similarly the Australian Computer Society have a nice little earner going charging up to $550 a pop for their assessments.

https://more.acs.org.au/migration-skills-assessment/costs-and-charges
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Love how some engineering professionals still have their heads firmly buried in the sand over the state of the engineering job market.

I haven't been a member of EA since uni and don't intend to soon. $200 a year in membership to recieve **** all.

Currently studying another field and may well end up making a career out of that.
 
Im sure there is plenty of unemployed yoof that could be trained but 457s are cheaper....more profits for the share holders/to be exported to a shelf company in Singapore
 

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