A Question about AFL Live online.

[LeKoupa]

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I've played AFL Live a while now and am moderately okay. I can beat Legend level easily enough. Online, I probably win a few more than I lose.

However, there's some people I play online and just can't compete against against. Amongst other things, they:

• always win the ball in contested situations
• are nearly impossible to outmark
• are difficult to spoil in marking competitions
• when tackled, frequently get perfect disposals away
• tackle me and completely incapacitate my players.

The whole feel of the game is different, like an AFL team playing a Diamond Valley team.

Having had a number of these games, seriously can't believe it's just that some people are consistently that good given the double standards unfolding in play, i.e. stuff they can do that I can't, (refer above list, amongst other things).

So, a question, for those in the know. Are there specific stats they juice up which prejudices the outcomes of those contests or does (online) experience factor that heavily in matches?

Another possibility is whether there's any cracks for games, e.g. removing the salary cap, so you can juice up a team to extremes? I know Top Spin 4 had a glitch which allowed players to amp up their stats, but 2K Sports released a patch to get rid of that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[HBK619]

Lag is usually the cause.

Either that or the players are using custom teams that yes, have the juiced up stats to specific areas and thus exploit the areas that can be best exploited. You'll know if the team has been edited in some way by the FF logo on the team select screen.

Not much can be done but to do the same for yourself, although that creates an infinite web of custom teams that ruins the online environment and leads to shit matches all round where you're just doing the same thing over and over (strong hitout to mid running towards goal>60 metre kick>mark and/or goal).

 

[LeKoupa]

Thanks, HBK619.

I know in these cases it's not lag. When it lags, you're incapable of doing anything, e.g. an oppnent will run the length of the ground and you just won't be able to tackle him. Or suddenly the action will jump to another part of the ground.

In these cases, their players are just too big or strong for your players.

Big Ant should should create a patch. The game shouldn't be determined to that extent by stats.

 

[HBK619]

Thanks, HBK619.

I know in these cases it's not lag. When it lags, you're incapable of doing anything, e.g. an oppnent will run the length of the ground and you just won't be able to tackle him. Or suddenly the action will jump to another part of the ground.

In these cases, their players are just too big or strong for your players.

Big Ant should should create a patch. The game shouldn't be determined to that extent by stats.

Unfortunately BigAnt did patch the game regarding the custom teams, however it was to allow a bigger salary cap. It was done after a poll was made to gauge the interest on upping the custom team salary cap. The biggest problem was that it wasn't a decision made with enough foresight of what people are willing to do just to get the W on their stats. It would've only taken a few hours on a game like COD online to realise just how far people are willing to go to get that extra positive to their own stats.

The decision is done and will stay now until the next game, which I'd expect either a much lower salary cap or just a ranked/unranked search system where ranked is ONLY the originally ranked AFL teams and unranked is whatever you choose (which will probably include the new swapping teams/players system that is in RLL2).

Lag isn't necessarily those cases that you mention either, those tend to be the extremes. Sometimes there does occur moments of lag that are very subtle but easier to notice when you go from having just little bits of lag to no lag in a game against the same opponent. Once the other team gets a run on too it can just exacerbate the situation. I noticed it most against Scootyb in the AFL Live Comp we ran on here this time last year. When there was a little bit of lag, he just destroyed me in every area (especially marking inside 50). When there wasn't, it was a generally even contest and I could often get on top.

 

[LeKoupa]

Thanks again, HBK.

I didn't realise the lag actually affected those minute instances. I thought it was the extremes and then it synced. Cheers.

 

[Footypie32]

Yeah, just noticed some of this too. Not sure whether it's lag or not, but my players are really dumb! They allow their opponent to run off them, I'm constantly outnumbered at contests and sometimes when I'm taking a kick after a mark, my players will stand next to the player on the mark instead of running to space. Anyone else experienced any of this too?

 

[LeKoupa]

Yeah, the AI in the game is horrible. Teammates will generally take the least intelligent option, including:

• leaving the man to run to a contest you have covered, thus creating a free man (opponent)
• joining you in laying a tackle, thus again creating a free man. (It's happened to me where two teammates have joined me in a tackle, with all three of us sprawling, and leaving two free opponents.)
• follow their man to the point of ignoring the ball, even if the ball's closer to them
• will zone and ignore the ball, or run away from it, even if it drops at their feet
• not providing options when you win the ball in congestion, e.g. peel off. Again, instead, they join you in congestion.

A couple of other things which really annoy me are the glitches in regards to bumping. Instead of tackling, online players will bump you in the back. Either you'll drop the ball, or be temporarily incapacitated. If it's the latter, they tackle you and it's holding the ball. Or if you mark, they'll tackle you, then bump you in the back. Unsure how/why, but this constitutes play on (maybe because you drop the ball, or because you're pushed over the mark). This is a massive cheat. They really should patch it.

My biggest grievance with the game is you just are not rewarded for tackling. I've played games where I've laid 70-80 tackles, and been rewarded with NOT A SINGLE holding the ball, and yet given away four or so push in the backs. In one game, I laid 87 tackles. Holding the balls? ZERO. Amount of times I was penalised (for 'too high' or 'in the back')? Five. You just cannot have a football game in which you are penalised instead ofrewarded for one of the principles of the game.

The handballing can be annoying, too, as it'll often pick a bizarre option, even if you're not pointing at it. Or it'll fail to execute a basic handball successfully. I'd understand if you're trying to pick out a teammate twenty meters away, surrounded by four opponents; but usually, you'll miss a teammate a meter away (especially if they're lateral to you).

When the game plays truly, it's a really good interpretation of Australian Rules. But more often than not it plays with little understanding of the contest, like some foreigner's interpretation of Australian Rules.

 

[HBK619]

My biggest grievance with the game is you just are not rewarded for tackling. I've played games where I've laid 70-80 tackles, and been rewarded with NOT A SINGLE holding the ball, and yet given away four or so push in the backs. In one game, I laid 87 tackles. Holding the balls? ZERO. Amount of times I was penalised (for 'too high' or 'in the back')? Five. You just cannot have a football game in which you are penalised instead ofrewarded for one of the principles of the game.

You're being penalised because you're holding down the sprint button while tackling. If you let go of the sprint button as you tackle, then you won't be getting the too high or in the back free kicks. That's how the risk/reward tackling system works.

 

[LeKoupa]

Thanks for that, HBK. Tried it over several games and minimised my infringements. Still not getting reward for tackling, though.

You know what I think would be great in a game like this? Going back to AFL 98, that had arrow indicators which surrounded the ball carrier, big arrows for a kick, small for a handball. Reckon a similar system would be good for any new AFL game. Regardless of which view you use, you're blinkered in some way.

Am sure they could incorporate some sort of skill set, e.g. a power meter which begins to fill the arrow you point to, which determines how hard you kick it, and how correctly you execute a pass.

Another thing they really need also isa goal-kicking meter of some sort. At the moment, you're just guessing. There should be some skill element. It's difficulty could be prejudiced by angle, difficulty, and any previous shots you've had with the same player, e.g. a few misses would mean the meter goes quicker.

 

[SugarShane]

Yeah, the AI in the game is horrible. Teammates will generally take the least intelligent option, including:

• leaving the man to run to a contest you have covered, thus creating a free man (opponent)
• joining you in laying a tackle, thus again creating a free man. (It's happened to me where two teammates have joined me in a tackle, with all three of us sprawling, and leaving two free opponents.)
• follow their man to the point of ignoring the ball, even if the ball's closer to them
• will zone and ignore the ball, or run away from it, even if it drops at their feet
• not providing options when you win the ball in congestion, e.g. peel off. Again, instead, they join you in congestion.

AI is a big problem, especially on Legend. Like you said, they are just faultless at picking the worst option every single time. Your first dot point is especially annoying and the opponent AI loves to exploit wherever possible, especially at kick ins. Kick to someone alone on a flank, up comes your wingman to stand the mark. By the time you get your player selector on him it's too late. The kick flies over his head and they're out and away.

And I agree totally on the tackling and HTB issue. The return rate for getting a HTB seems to be less than even 1%. Like you said you can go through a game with 100 tackles and not get rewarded once. It's nearly always one of the 2, no prior - ball up, or blatant holding the ball but the ball spills free. Opponent takes 3 bounces and gets chased down, ball always spills free (nearly always in the direction of their nearest team mate), play on.

 

[LeKoupa]

And I agree totally on the tackling and HTB issue. The return rate for getting a HTB seems to be less than even 1%. Like you said you can go through a game with 100 tackles and not get rewarded once. It's nearly always one of the 2, no prior - ball up, or blatant holding the ball but the ball spills free. Opponent takes 3 bounces and gets chased down, ball always spills free (nearly always in the direction of their nearest team mate), play on.

You should get, on average, one HTB per ten tackles.

Something else which annoys me (sorry, I keep saying that -- but there's lots of things) is simply the time a player eats up having a shot at goal. In real time, it might be twenty seconds. In game-time, you can eat up two minutes before you have a shot. They should either stop the clock, slow it, or give you a very limited time to have it.

If you've played Max Payne and seen their bullet-time, something similar would be good here, because there's lots of times in congestion you have no hope of doing anything simply because you don't have time to measure your options -- particularly in center bounces with the camera changing angle and disorienting you. Hit an R2-modifier for bullet-type play, for example, slow the game for three seconds, consider your options. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll execute a perfect disposal, but it'll let you measure up options.

 

[HBK619]

You should get, on average, one HTB per ten tackles.

Something else which annoys me (sorry, I keep saying that -- but there's lots of things) is simply the time a player eats up having a shot at goal. In real time, it might be twenty seconds. In game-time, you can eat up two minutes before you have a shot. They should either stop the clock, slow it, or give you a very limited time to have it.

If you've played Max Payne and seen their bullet-time, something similar would be good here, because there's lots of times in congestion you have no hope of doing anything simply because you don't have time to measure your options -- particularly in center bounces with the camera changing angle and disorienting you. Hit an R2-modifier for bullet-type play, for example, slow the game for three seconds, consider your options. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll execute a perfect disposal, but it'll let you measure up options.

Is your 2nd paragraph tying in with your first there? As in the bullet time is good/should be used for having a shot for goal? Or am I reading it wrong.

In terms of that 'They should either stop the clock, slow it, or give you a very limited time to have it.' there's nothing more that can really be done. You need to give the player ample time to take their shot and you simply can't stop the clock because it's not in the rules of the AFL. Just have to hope your opponent isn't a dick and wants to play the game more than watch a player line up a set shot.

In terms of bullet time implementation. I don't like the idea tbh. First off, how do you build the ability to use it? Is it infinite supply or do you have to earn it throughout a game? Is there a limit to how many times you can use it, even in sequence? And how does it work in multiplayer (both online and offline)? Do you keep the slow motion which could be incredibly frustrating to see used in online games and be very easily manipulated in tight and tense situations. At the end of the day, there's no slow-motion in real AFL, so there shouldn't be in the game replicating it imo.

With regards to the 'particularly in center bounces with the camera changing angle and disorienting you' why not just use the default camera angle? I really don't get the fascination with people using end-to-end. The disorienting nature of the camera switching back and forth like that is enough to counter any benefits of seeing the field (which you can do via radar on the default view anyways).

 

[LeKoupa]

Re Bullet Time
-- I meant this in general play. You'd have limited uses. It'd only last for a short time, e.g. three seconds.

Center bounces
-- I leave it on 'Side balanced'. But there are occasions the ball moves directly into congestion (particularly as the camera pulls out and scrolls from the bounce) and all you see are a mishmash of players. You can be totally lost as to who has it and what the options are.

I know in a real game, you can be blind-sided, or unaware to opponents behind you, et al. But here, you can simply be suspect to stuff you would've seen in a real game, but don't becuse of the camera's portrayal of the game and the players.

Goal-kicking
-- They could slow the clock to real-time for shots, so that a kick has to be taken within thirty seconds. In close games online, opponents will just hold the ball and eat up time before having their shot. Slowing the clock would be easy. Once you push the square for a shot (following a mark), slow the clock to real time and give the player his 20-30 seconds to have a shot. As the ball nears goal, go back into game-time. Wouldn't affect the game in the slightest, and would solve time-wasters who purposely kill minutes when having a shot.

 

[LeKoupa]

Any tips on rucking? Regularly get slaughtered (online).

 

[HBK619]

Any tips on rucking? Regularly get slaughtered (online).

Same.

That's the one aspect I've always been awful at. Can do anything else, but rucking is my Achilles heel.

 

[LeKoupa]

Do you think online that's some just a position they juice up, (although I'm unsure which stat would be responsible)?

 

[HBK619]

Do you think online that's some just a position they juice up, (although I'm unsure which stat would be responsible)?

No, I get done by regular teams and regular players on a consistent basis in the ruck. As I said, I can do anything else easily (which is why I have been so good at the game), but rucking is something I have just never been able to nail no matter the opponent.

There's no doubt that some do up the attributes, just the general ruck hitout stat works to get a bit better of an advantage if they're a custom/edited team. But I am hopeless at the ruck anyways so it doesn't matter. I just find myself working out better strategies of shutting down teams when they do win the hitout and thus I'm really good defensively.

 

[LeKoupa]

Let me ask you something else: the game contains some sort of internal momentum, doesn't it? Have spoken to others about this. But there seems times the ball will fall your way, spill your way, decisions will go your way, your players will be leading to kicks, et al. Then there's occasions it happens in reverse.

Really feels as if there's an internal momentum factor which will favour one team or the other on occasions.

 

[LeKoupa]

Also, do you know why there are occasions your player will watch the ball just sail over his head (or even through him) instead of actually putting his hands out and marking it? Very annoying. (And in these situations, I'm referring to uncontested marks, where your player is just standing alone.)

 

[SugarShane]

Also, do you know why there are occasions your player will watch the ball just sail over his head (or even through him) instead of actually putting his hands out and marking it? Very annoying. (And in these situations, I'm referring to uncontested marks, where your player is just standing alone.)

Yep all too often. Normally in centre clearances or in front of goal, you'll kick to a runner's advantage and he'll just stop and do the crab stance and watch it fly over his head no matter how hard you move the stick. So frustrating.

 

[LeKoupa]

'Crab stance' -- ripper description!

 

[LeKoupa]

Online, does experience have any bearing on the way teams play?

 

[HBK619]

Let me ask you something else: the game contains some sort of internal momentum, doesn't it? Have spoken to others about this. But there seems times the ball will fall your way, spill your way, decisions will go your way, your players will be leading to kicks, et al. Then there's occasions it happens in reverse.

Really feels as if there's an internal momentum factor which will favour one team or the other on occasions.

There is, it's been said that there's momentum if you string a few passes or plays together your players will get a bit of a boost. But it's nothing overly huge and doing the same thing yourself can see you get it right back.

Online, does experience have any bearing on the way teams play?

No.

 

[LeKoupa]

Saw something really interesting yesterday online.

Played an opponent who'd created huge players.

From every situation where he'd taken a mark or gotten a free, he'd run his player in a little clockwise circle over and over. (This wasn't play on, as he remained behind the mark.) Wondered why the hell he was doing this, but it became evident that it inevitably whirlpools all the other players in. So, inevitably, you have all thirty-six players swirling within a forty meter circumference of the player with the ball. It's really weird to see.

He'd then kick the ball and and we'd all chase it down. Presumably, his big-bodied players had the advantage of winning the stoppages.

 

[LeKoupa]

Any secret to handballing? The amount of handballs which don't hit (easy) targets is infuriating. Some opponents online seem to always nail their targets, even when they're being tackled. Or have they just beefed up handball/decision making stats?