A Question....

[Royal Flush]

This might sound stupid, however being so rare.

If the board quads and the best five cards win does that mean a kicker is considered in deciding the hand?

I would think not as four of a kind is four of a kind, but you are really using 4 cards and not five.

 

[red+black]

[YOUTUBE]aZnzMZ7Rm00[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Royal Flush]

Thanks for the answer.

I was in this position with some friends (they're not good poker players) and we had a mucking around $10 game. Quads hit the board and I had Ace high. We agreed I won because of the kicker-but I wasn't 100% sure. I'd hate to win incorrectly.

 

[red+black]

[YOUTUBE]gRIRembBbE0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Wow, that was like watching two idiots play poker.

Kristy Gazes is obviously a moron but Chad Brown is the bigger fool. If he pushes all in (with the nuts) on the river, he is almost certainly called because Gazes has completely misread the board.

Only a complete goose checks the nuts on the river when in position.

 

[red+black]

yeah it wasn't good.

 

[The Passenger]

have seen the gus hansen and erica shonberg hand. that was a crazy hand. chances of that are so rare.

will look forward to seeing the second video. it's funny watching people check behind with the nuts on the river....

i'm really waiting for the day when the board holds the nuts and trying to push people off who've misread. the only board i think you could do this on is quads with an ace on the board..... obviousbly in a cash game i wouldn't do it because just feeding the rake, but in a tournament and sit and go i'd love to give it a shot.

how many boards are there when the board can have the nuts?? the only ones i can think of are

1) Royal Flush
2) ace high straight with no flush on the board
3) four of a kind with an ace on the board

probably the only time you could attempt to win the pot is with the third example as some people could possibly get themselves mixed up with full houses or just think they're kicker is no good.... as said doing it in a cash game is likely to get a serious verbal barrage from across the table for feeding the rake.

if you wanted to be extremely rare and include time the dealer exposes cards when dealing hole cards so you know that card is dead

4) dealer exposes ace, board shows three aces and two kings
5) dealer exposes any card, and board shows a straight flush to the card below that card (i.e. straight flush to 9 of diamonds on the board, dealer exposed ten of diamonds)

yeah those last two are a bit extreme

 

[Royal Flush]

.

i'm really waiting for the day when the board holds the nuts and trying to push people off who've misread. the only board i think you could do this on is quads with an ace on the board..... obviousbly in a cash game i wouldn't do it because just feeding the rake, but in a tournament and sit and go i'd love to give it a shot.


probably the only time you could attempt to win the pot is with the third example as some people could possibly get themselves mixed up with full houses or just think they're kicker is no good.... as said doing it in a cash game is likely to get a serious verbal barrage from across the table for feeding the rake.

I dont understand that? When you play at a Casino or online, I really dont think about the rake. The whole point of the game is to win pots. If you have a feeling the board has been misread and you go all in then thats there fault.

I'm not sure in actual dollars what the value of the rake is effecting my pot. But quite often online (Party Poker) I have the winning hand (nuts) on the river and want to bet exactly the highest chip stack in the hand. I have been at times huge chip leader and because of the restriction of time to act on line after processing everything, I have found myself rushing and pressing ALL In.
This means my whole stack goes in, if I'm called then I am assumimg I am being taxed (rake) for my whole stack, rather then the equivelent of the short stacks all in.

If they dont call I guess I am still being raked or should I say r*ped by the house by taking a Percentage of my entire stack?

Is this true?

If so is it such a big deal?

 

[red+black]

i'm really waiting for the day when the board holds the nuts and trying to push people off who've misread. the only board i think you could do this on is quads with an ace on the board..... obviousbly in a cash game i wouldn't do it because just feeding the rake, but in a tournament and sit and go i'd love to give it a shot.

as said doing it in a cash game is likely to get a serious verbal barrage from across the table for feeding the rake.

stupid argument. let's say it's 2/3 at Crown, pot is $40 by the river, thus the rake is $4.

- check/check: POT $40 - YOU $18, OPPONENT $18, RAKE $4 ($2 each)
- check/bet 20/call 20: POT $80 - YOU $37, OPPONENT $37, RAKE $6 ($3 each)
- bet 20/call 20: POT $80 - YOU $37, OPPONENT $37, RAKE $6 ($3 each)
- bet 20/fold: POT $60 - YOU $54, OPPONENT $0, RAKE $6

You gain by betting here if your opponent folds just once in 20-25 times. You could check, and he bets, so you max the rake anyway. Now consider a situation with 3-4 players, the loss per person in extra rake is negligible, and there is a greater chance that one person will fold. Don't assume that a player sees what 99% of other players see, I mean, just look at the Gazes v He-Man hand above. Say broadway comes and A checks, B bets and C min-raises. Maybe D or A folds, and you split 3 ways instead of 4 ways.

I will always bet when the board is showing the nuts. I've had such a situation where 4 of us saw a river and one player got confused by what was happening and folded.

I dont understand that? When you play at a Casino or online, I really dont think about the rake. The whole point of the game is to win pots. If you have a feeling the board has been misread and you go all in then thats there fault.

I wouldn't push all-in, that just wastes time and is even more suspicious than a supposed value bet. Bet, if it's called, have a chuckle, split the pot, perhaps pay an extra buck or two in rake (split 2/3/4 ways) and move on to the next hand.

if you wanted to be extremely rare and include time the dealer exposes cards when dealing hole cards so you know that card is dead

4) dealer exposes ace, board shows three aces and two kings

Board is showing 2nd nuts. Nuts is KKKKA.

 

[Royal Flush]

I will always bet when the board is showing the nuts. I've had such a situation where 4 of us saw a river and one player got confused by what was happening and folded.



Board is showing 2nd nuts. Nuts is KKKKA.

LOL that always happens.
The guys that play their cards only. They never play the board, the players, chip stacks or position.
LOL god bless them.

 

[The Passenger]

stupid argument. let's say it's 2/3 at Crown, pot is $40 by the river, thus the rake is $4.

- check/check: POT $40 - YOU $18, OPPONENT $18, RAKE $4 ($2 each)
- check/bet 20/call 20: POT $80 - YOU $37, OPPONENT $37, RAKE $6 ($3 each)
- bet 20/call 20: POT $80 - YOU $37, OPPONENT $37, RAKE $6 ($3 each)
- bet 20/fold: POT $60 - YOU $54, OPPONENT $0, RAKE $6

if the rake is already maxed then fair enough, see what happens, hopefully the other guy folds.

if the rake isn't maxed, well i suppose it's up to each player to do as they see fit. but don't be suprised if the other guy decides to three bet you then next three or four times you raise pre-flop. especially if he's a solid player who knows that you know there was little chance of him misreading the board.... no one likes to feed the house, no matter how small it is. in saying that, i suppose you can use that against said player too....

 

[Royal Flush]

if the rake is already maxed then fair enough, see what happens, hopefully the other guy folds.

if the rake isn't maxed, well i suppose it's up to each player to do as they see fit.

People have their own strategies, however I think if one is concerned about the extra couple of bucks in the rake rather then winning a pot is possibly showing a lack of focus on the game.

I couldn't possibly imagine having the time to think about this and make a good decision under the heat of the moment.

 

[Cartman121]

I've seen plenty of players players fold when the board shows the nut ace high straight. Pretty funny.

 

[redda18]

There are plenty of players that will fold to a bet when the board has an A high straight.

 

[paxmaniac]

You gain by betting here if your opponent folds just once in 20-25 times.

I don't think a player folds the nuts one in 20-25 times. Maybe I would throw out a bet if it was multiway or if the rake was nearly capped, but heads up I reckon it's just rude and probably -EV.

On the other hand I will always bet a *likely* but not certain chop (such as board showing KQJTx and you hold an ace).

I saw a shocker recently where one player had the nut straight and they put in maybe five bets (limit, no cap) on the river. Guy with the nuts eventually just calls and the other guy shows the arse end of the straight. In that situation you just keep on betting, because you will drag it way more than 1 in 20 (or whatever).

 

[red+black]

I don't think a player folds the nuts one in 20-25 times. Maybe I would throw out a bet if it was multiway or if the rake was nearly capped, but heads up I reckon it's just rude and probably -EV.

But multiway an extra rake is negligible. You don't seem to comprehend that. One possible legit argument is on a table that pays an hourly fee, you're most likely just wasting time. But there's every chance the rake is max or close to it by 5th street so you lose nothing by betting. Say it's 2/3 and the pot is $40 at the river.

checks round ($40) - you $12, player A $12, player B $12, rake $4
you bet 20, they call ($100) - you $32, player A $31, player B $31, rake $6

So when you bet here OOP, you lose nothing. Instead of winning $12, you win $32, you lose nothing to rake. The other two do lose $1 each to rake though.

I'll still bet heads-up. I've had someone fold to me because they had 2 pair but "the board looked scary".

And where did you get this "rude to bet" mentality from?

 

[paxmaniac]

checks round ($40) - you $12, player A $12, player B $12, rake $4
you bet 20, they call ($100) - you $32, player A $31, player B $31, rake $6

Does the bettor get the extra dollar on a split? Or the player to the left of the button? At Burswood, rake would be $8 on $100 pot.

And where did you get this "rude to bet" mentality from?

Only in this specific situation where it requires your opponent to be a complete moron in order to be profitable. Bottom line is that I really doubt opp is going to fold 1 in 20 heads up.