A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[pulpdriver]

I must have missed all of those "only"s in James' post. Thanks for pointing them out, as I thought he just used an example.

I think he made an implication.

 

[James North]

Because it's only rural white folks that could possibly want that. That's the only reason. And only possible demographic. Those stupid rednecks who don't know better that could only hate Obama because he's black. No doubt you understand them. Such a shame they haven't been able to experience your magnanimous enlightenment. Though you implied you won't stop so they'll probably receive it eventually. And that's a good thing. No doubt they need it, those dumb white men. After all, they've only made decisions based on their own life experiences but it's wrong because the life they've been exposed to must have been interpreted wrong because of their inherent privilege. Those poor dumb ****s.

Jumped the shark pulp.

 

[James North]

I think he made an implication.

I don't think you did.

 

[pulpdriver]

Jumped the shark pulp.

That's not an argument.

 

[James North]

That's not an argument.

I'm not looking for an argument, we must be quite different.

All I did was try to explain that I had empathy for that part of US culture, as I do for other parts of culture that are not the same as my own.

Call them dumb and racist for your own enjoyment, but it won't elicit the reaction you're looking for with all your swear words.

 

[pulpdriver]

I'm not looking for an argument, we must be quite different.

All I did was try to explain that I had empathy for that part of US culture, as I do for other parts of culture that are not the same as my own.

Call them dumb and racist for your own enjoyment, but it won't elicit the reaction you're looking for with all your swear words.

I'm not creating arguments, I'm making retorts to your statement and you had no refuting arguments to my statement.

I'm not calling anyone dumb and racist, in fact suggesting I did is weird, people can go back an check my comments. if you go back to your initial claim that was what was implied. I like you a lot a James, but your initial comment came off as highly condescending. Without hyperbole the things that were suggested from your OP contribute to divisiveness far more than the standard us vs them comments ever could.

 

[James North]

I'm not creating arguments, I'm making retorts to your statement and you had no refuting arguments to my statement.

I'm not calling anyone dumb and racist, in fact suggesting I did is weird, people can go back an check my comments. if you go back to your initial claim that was what was implied. I like you a lot a James, but your initial comment came off as highly condescending. Without hyperbole the things that were suggested from your OP contribute to divisiveness far more than the standard us vs them comments ever could.

That protesting the Commonwealth Games presence is a reasonable form of attempt to make social change?

 

[Hollow Knight]

 

[pulpdriver]

That protesting the Commonwealth Games presence is a reasonable form of attempt to make social change?

Protestation is available to every citizen of a free country. I didn't object to that. I objected to your classification of people based on their life choices which I felt came across as condescending.
As for the Comm games discussion I think that's wide open and I don't have much to say

 

[James North]

Protestation is available to every citizen of a free country. I didn't object to that. I objected to your classification of people based on their life choices which I felt came across as condescending.
As for the Comm games discussion I think that's wide open and I don't have much to say

We are all a product of our upbringing and I have empathy for anyone who doesn't have the same one as me. I wouldn't attempt to lecture to them because I know they are different.

A lack of empathy is what a lot of people suffer from in discussions generally and that line of mine was relating to previous posts.

If this isn't clearer, I'm with Homer above.

 

[Football Pope]

40,000? Try 50,000 years at the very minimum.

Two grave sites at Lake Mungo of Mungo Man and Mungo Lady is evidence that early humans first reached Australia about 50,000 years ago.
National Geographic.

There is growing evidence to suggest that the Negrito peoples may have been the first people here some thousands of years earlier, descendants of Australoid-Melanesian settlers of Austronesia.

The extinction of the-Australian Pygmies

 

[pulpdriver]

We are all a product of our upbringing and I have empathy for anyone who doesn't have the same one as me. I wouldn't attempt to lecture to them because I know they are different.

A lack of empathy is what a lot of people suffer from in discussions generally and that line of mine was relating to previous posts.

If this isn't clearer, I'm with Homer above.

I wouldn't attempt to lecture to them because I know they are different.

Come on, dude. This essentially the whole reason this convo thread started. You also suggested that some people came from the wrong string of thought simply because of their upbringing which would imply you were able to ascertain what was morally right and good.

 

[James North]

I wouldn't attempt to lecture to them because I know they are different.

Come on, dude. This essentially the whole reason this convo thread started. You also suggested that some people came from the wrong string of thought simply because of their upbringing which would imply you were able to ascertain what was morally right and good.

There is no wrong, just a lack of empathy from both sides.

I’d rather my post was discussed for its content on the Indigenous protests - not the cherry picked and twisted hypothetical I gave.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I wouldn't attempt to lecture to them because I know they are different.

Come on, dude. This essentially the whole reason this convo thread started. You also suggested that some people came from the wrong string of thought simply because of their upbringing which would imply you were able to ascertain what was morally right and good.

At the risk of clique accusations, I think you have put a spin on JN’s comments that weren’t there.

My interpretation was that he was simply saying people’s perspectives are heavily shaped by their upbringing and social circles. We understand what we know. His intention being to show (in the context of the existing discussion) why it’s so hard for many white Australians to tap into the indigenous perspective on anything other than a superficial level, and by implication, vice verse. Empathy is the theme.

It feels like you got (and I hate this term) “triggered” when you saw the reference to Obama and then saw a whole bunch of value judgements that aren’t actually there.

I don’t want to actually get involved in the fight here, but that was genuinely my immediate read on JN’s post.

 

[pulpdriver]

There is no wrong, just a lack of empathy from both sides.

I’d rather my post was discussed for its content on the Indigenous protests - not the cherry picked and twisted hypothetical I gave.

That's fine but there was an instantly perceivable "wrong" , its fine to want your post focused on the indigenous content but any perceived flaws aren't impervious to criticism.

 

[pulpdriver]

At the risk of clique accusations, I think you have put a spin on JN’s comments that weren’t there.

My interpretation was that he was simply saying people’s perspectives are heavily shaped by their upbringing and social circles. We understand what we know. His intention being to show (in the context of the existing discussion) why it’s so hard for many white Australians to tap into the indigenous perspective on anything other than a superficial level, and by implication, vice verse. Empathy is the theme.

It feels like you got (and I hate this term) “triggered” when you saw the reference to Obama and then saw a whole bunch of value judgements that aren’t actually there.

I don’t want to actually get involved in the fight here, but that was genuinely my immediate read on JN’s post.

No. Just no. And why exactly do you think I find Obama triggering? This is someone I've criticised, though mostly supported but I'd feared to be ineffectual and ultimately detrimental. I'm curious why you would think I would fixate on Obama as being some sort of justification or excuse for all the other valid criticisms I'd highlighted in my previous posts.

 

[Hollow Knight]

No. Just no. And why exactly do you think I find Obama triggering? This is someone I've criticised, though mostly supported but I'd feared to be ineffectual and ultimately detrimental. I'm curious why you would think I would fixate on Obama as being some sort of justification or excuse for all the other valid criticisms I'd highlighted in my previous posts.

I don't know, but something seemingly sparked you into seeing a whole bunch of value judgements that weren't there. I mean, at some point is it possible that you accept at face value James North's explanations that the judgements you saw in his post weren't actually there or do you just keep doubling down and insisting that you know what he meant to say more than he does?

 

[pulpdriver]

I don't know, but something seemingly sparked you into seeing a whole bunch of value judgements that weren't there. I mean, at some point is it possible that you accept at face value James North's explanations that the judgements you saw in his post weren't actually there or do you just keep doubling down and insisting that you know what he meant to say more than he does?

Who says they were't there?

 

[James North]

That's fine but there was an instantly perceivable "wrong" , its fine to want your post focused on the indigenous content but any perceived flaws aren't impervious to criticism.

It was a hypothetical ... are you getting this?

That despite one's inner desire to try to 'correct' someone because of their different views/upbringing, the point is that one should have empathy for them and their side of things.

I was using myself as an example wanting to 'correct' those people you extrapolated about.

 

[James North]

 

[pulpdriver]

It was a hypothetical ... are you getting this?

That despite one's inner desire to try to 'correct' someone because of their different views/upbringing, the point is that one should have empathy for them and their side of things.

I was using myself as an example wanting to 'correct' those people you extrapolated about.

But that comparison resonate or impacts people, all over the world now? Are you getting this?

That despite one's inner desire to try to 'correct' someone because of their different views/upbringing, the point is that one should have empathy for them and their side of things.

You think empathy supersedes survival? Holy s**t. I haven't even brought statistics into the equation. What does it mean when there is frequently no embrace of empathy for others?

 

[James North]

But that comparison resonate or impacts people, all over the world now? Are you getting this?


You think empathy supersedes survival? Holy s**t. I haven't even brought statistics into the equation. What does it mean when there is frequently no embrace of empathy for others?

Whatever is happening here, I guess.

 

[pulpdriver]

Whatever is happening here, I guess.

Hahaha if you insist. I guess it just depends on the groups, right?

 

[SizeMatters]

So much of aboriginal history has been wiped because it doesn't fit the narrative of the wandering savage and terra nullius. Those tribes that Burke and Wills encountered on their expedition reportedly had permanent dwellings and complex agriculture.

Not discounting your claim but do you have sources on the indigenous adopting 'complex agriculture'? Would like to read further into this.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Not discounting your claim but do you have sources on the indigenous adopting 'complex agriculture'? Would like to read further into this.

I think it all depends on what you define as "complex agriculture" and if you are able to separate it from western ideas of what it means.

I've seen people refer to the way indigenous Australians used the land as being more along the lines of "rangeland management". Probably doesn't completely match more Eurocentric ideas of agriculture as it is more about protecting and propagating what is already available (rather than carving up and dominating the land and livestock to suit your needs) but it definitely goes beyond the mere "hunter/gatherer" tag that was used for so long by anthropologists.

ABC Radio National did an interesting episode on it.

Podcast here... http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2014/05/bth_20140515_1106.mp3

Accompanying article here... http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...digenous-australias-agricultural-past/5452454