Academy Watch

[Mr Ripper]

I need to be clear here, and declare my bias. I am president of a QAFL club and have a son who is very handy and has been invited to be part of the academy and I have opted out until he is older as I don't see the point.

My beef with the academy is not how many kids they get drafted and their ability to develop talent. I am fairly neutral on this. I wouldn't say they are setting the world on fire with their development or talent ID, but I think the impact they can have is pretty minimal and the best talent finds a way to get where they need to be in the end and will get there if they work hard enough and are good enough.

My beef with the academy is the collateral damage it does to club football and footy in QLD as a whole. They take 100+ kids in each age group as an intake, and whether you agree with which 100 they take and what they do with them is not really relevant, but on the balance of probabilities, those 100 are going to represent a fair chunk of the talented players in that age group.

They then go into the academy, do all this training that costs a fortune, requires a silly amount of travel for many of them and are lost to club football as a result. They are often told to sit out club games, they also miss huge amounts of club training (where in reality the coaching is as good, if not better) and lose a connection to their footy community.

As a result, graduates from level 3 academy that don't get drafted (which is pretty much all of them) are dropping out of footy altogether before they are 20 at a rate over 80%. To me this is an unacceptable figure that needs immediate attention and rectification, its basically an epidemic of talent destruction.

As a result of this, you are basically taking 80% of the most talented players out of QLD club footy before they are 20 on an annual basis. This then means the local competitions are weaker, and its a vicious cycle where people think academies are needed because the QAFL competition isn't strong enough and the Lions and Suns reserves can't just play QAFL like they used to, because the standard isn't good enough - when the very existence of the academy and how it operates is the direct reason for the standard of footy not lifting as it should. Kids in the academy would do well to understand that being a 200 game senior player in local footy is an incredibly rewarding fallback, but instead its very much 'draft or bust' which is even more ridiculous given out of 100 kids, AFL recruiters wouldn't even look at 90 of them.

I'm not here to lay blame on why this happens, but they need to look at how they connect with these kids - their communication with them about club footy and not just cut them and send them off into the wild to give the game away. This statistic does not get enough attention. I see it first hand as our club who supplies a mountain of kids to the academy on an annual basis are then left to pick up the pieces when they come back to us at 18 absolutely hating the game and the system. We will likely have our 2nd player drafted in 3 years later this year, and I can confidently state that the academy has had almost nothing to do with their development as players, and the best thing for them has been playing senior footy in the QAFL.

In fact one of them, we had to push to be part of the academy. Then in his draft year he was treated horrendously. He played academy games, then played NEAFL for 2 different clubs, played QAFL for us and played Allies. In a 6 week period, he played for 5 different teams - how is a kid supposed to build any sort of continuity of form or familiarity with his teammates if this happens? COVID then came along, and he payed 10 solid QAFL games for us in a row, and was drafted by Richmond and 2 other clubs were keen - amazing what just playing footy and being part of a team can do for your form.

We are seeing the same with kids now. In the last month they have gone academy, QAFL, academy, QAFL, then one of them is going VFL, then Allies, then back to QAFL. so 4 different teams in 5 weeks...just makes zero sense. For me that is where the problem lies, they just bounce from jumper to jumper and lose the reason for actually playing footy and enjoying the game. Don't get drafted, then quit because they have been a pinball for 2 years (or more)

Just my 2c, and happy to declare my ulterior interest being the health of footy in QLD generally.

Love this post nearly as much as I love your chippies.

 

[Required]

Dan Lanthois, 19yo (born 2003) didnt play for academy side, and not in squad of 35.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I thought the best outcome for the academy was to provide an elite pathway to being a professional sportsman to pull talented athletes away from other sports in Queensland (maybe rugby). This doesn't seem to have been successful and while the overall number of Queensland draftees has risen there hasn't been the top quality of draftees for either Queensland team coming through.

Even the better picks have a background interstate; Hipwood, Keays and Kiddy

Hopefully at some point soon we can invest more and start getting more elite athletes in Queensland choosing us.

 

[Required]

I thought the best outcome for the academy was to provide an elite pathway to being a professional sportsman to pull talented athletes away from other sports in Queensland (maybe rugby). This doesn't seem to have been successful and while the overall number of Queensland draftees has risen there hasn't been the top quality of draftees for either Queensland team coming through.

Even the better picks have a background interstate; Hipwood, Keays and Kiddy

Hopefully at some point soon we can invest more and start getting more elite athletes in Queensland choosing us.

There once was a 'future stars' program some years ago. I think it was run by AFLQ, and Academy staff would come along and choose some kids, or AFLQ would nominate some. I took two local u12 RL kids along to one of the programs, (2012?) both starred, and both were picked up by the academy.

One of the boys fathers wasnt happy that his son may play Aussie rules and the kid dropped the idea. The other boy, whose father was from Victoria and had no problem with it, never turned up at the academy,.. but did play 9s in the off season. Would have been a gun. He prefers RL and plays for Toowoomba Clydesdale's. Is out injured at present.

'Future stars' was a great concept at the right time as it was around the time so much promotion was going with the inception of the Suns. The problem was/is, talented kids (the ones you are aiming for) already have goals, are mostly in rep sides, and play RL with their mates. They love Origin, Broncos etc. You are asking them to leave all that to play a game they barely understand and dont have a real interest in.

If there is a best moment to get RL talent, its at about 18-19yo when they realize the NRL (or even Qcup) dream is probably not attainable, but the kid is still athletically motivated, and more open to re focus their goals. I have ideas of how to go about this, but PC is getting low on ink..

Edit. Changing codes when your 'usual' code dream is over actually could work both ways. Talent like Tom Wishnat, a big, mobile, hardworking beast would be an instant success in RL. Absolutely QCUP potential if motivated to do so.
.

 

[Thommo 42]

Targeting RL talent is not practical. Their elite pathways are so entrenched its incredible.

My son is 13 and also plays Rugby Union for a GPS school, and he has 4 or 5 teammates that have actual contracts already with NRL clubs. It's a free for all in that sport, they actually should introduce a draft to avoid the skull duggery that goes on with the talented kids.

 

[Required]

Targeting RL talent is not practical. Their elite pathways are so entrenched its incredible.

My son is 13 and also plays Rugby Union for a GPS school, and he has 4 or 5 teammates that have actual contracts already with NRL clubs. It's a free for all in that sport, they actually should introduce a draft to avoid the skull duggery that goes on with the talented kids.

The draft is part of the problem as it creates a 'dream end point'. There isnt one in RL. In AFL If you arent drafted at 18-19yo the dream is over, and many leave the game. A lot of people blame the academy for this, and while they are part of the system, in actual fact its the draft that is choosing kids at 18-19, not the academy. The academy actually keeps some of the 'older' QLD talent going in their reserves squad. The RL free for all is better for the grass roots clubs as there is no 'dream end point' like there is in AFL.

A mates kid, outstanding AFL talent in Suns academy, wanted to have 1 season (this year) playing RL as well (u15s). After just 4 games, hes been approached by the 3 QLD clubs (Broncos, Dolphins, Titans), had sit downs with 2 of them. Has been offered free medical by all 3, but one of the clubs offed 1k on top, 3k next season and 5k the season after.

After just 4 games...

If you have at least 3 of the 4 desirable RL traits, (speed, size, evasion, aggression), its an potential opportunity if your AFL dream is deemed over by the academy and you are still 18-19yo. U21 rep sides fly all over the state for a full 17 game season (plus finals). {EG; Draw}

All the while getting free medical and some cash (many of them) Compare that to suns or Lions academy, get 7 games in pre/early season, no medical, no money.

*Talented u18-21s in RL are getting free medical, some cash, have rep stuff to u21s, and never told their dream is over...
*u18-21 talent in Aussie Rules are, getting slugged $500-$600 club sign on fees, no medical, no cash and told their dream is over.
*RL is free market, period. AFL up to 19yo is communism.

Whats the better system? Which system is likely to keep their players? QLD kids have to have total trust in their respective academy to rate them. RL kids have every single club available to rate them. Doesnt matter if Broncos dont like you, East might! A kid from Dalby, flys to Sydney every week to play SG Ball for Roosters!

Every single QLD Aussie rules kid can play RL. They all know the rules, have the necessary skills; Catch/pass, draw and pass, understand onside, run into gaps, have a working knowledge of tackling, and have extra skills, Catch above their heads, great hands, kicking skills. All have played many hours of it at school and in the back yard. Many even played structured school and club RL.

Crossover to RL doesnt pose the problems crossing from RL to AFL does. But it can be done. Karmichael Hunt proved it. A talented 18-19yo crossing over from RL is still going to show his AFL potential by 21, If that kid is getting tutored and watched. But why would he bother?

 

[Thommo 42]

The draft is part of the problem as it creates a 'dream end point'. There isnt one in RL. In AFL If you arent drafted at 18-19yo the dream is over, and many leave the game.

this sort of thinking is exactly the problem.

Kids don't pick up a footy for the first time to get drafted, they do it to enjoy themselves, have fun and play footy.

Sure, you can then develop goals, but if you get to 18, and you go undrafted - well there are hundreds of examples of blokes that get drafted at 19,20,21 and so on - but also thousands that go on to have good local footy careers, make lifelong friends and get on with life, with footy as part of it.

 

[Thommo 42]

A couple of criticisms/points in here I completely agree with Thommo.

1) The academy using the micky mouse school comp as their starting point (rather than going and watching club footy and selecting from that) They say they come and watch club games, but I know who they are and I've never caught them watching our club (even though we are Div 1). The school rep footy selection process is not great, there is nepotism and people involved with no knowledge of the players other than what they have seen in a short try out session. They very often just pick the most physically developed kids regardless of all else.

Lions Academy have just posted that invites will go out June 10 for kids born in 2008 and 2009.

Cooincidentally, state championships are next weekend. So once again, likely making judgement on intake from micky mouse school comp.

We have 11 boys in the 'Met West' team for this carnival at our club, and a few in the 'Met East' team and some in the Darling Downs team.

There are 3 or 4 kids at our club, not in any of those teams - who are better than most of the 11 selected, if not all of them. Reasons could include that they were sick for the trials (or were a close contact), their school didn't even tell them about the trials, or they just weren't picked because the school regional trials are done reasonably well, but still a long way from a perfect science trying to pick from ~200 kids in a few hours of footy.

I also know another kid at a nearby club who isn't in any of those teams, but is an absolute star. If they are using these school carnivals to guide them, then they are crazy. Go and watch club footy, ask the club coaches or committee.

 

[Required]

this sort of thinking is exactly the problem.

Kids don't pick up a footy for the first time to get drafted, they do it to enjoy themselves, have fun and play footy.

Sure, you can then develop goals, but if you get to 18, and you go undrafted - well there are hundreds of examples of blokes that get drafted at 19,20,21 and so on - but also thousands that go on to have good local footy careers, make lifelong friends and get on with life, with footy as part of it.

We arent talking about general kids who pick up a footy. We are talking about the retention of top end talent. You yourself have said they are leaving once the dream is over.. Ive just pointed out that the academy isnt to blame for that, its the draft and how its structured. Zero to do with 'kids picking up a footy'.

Very few get drafted at or over 20yo, per year...

 

[Thommo 42]

We arent talking about general kids who pick up a footy. We are talking about the retention of top end talent. You yourself have said they are leaving once the dream is over.. Ive just pointed out that the academy isnt to blame for that, its the draft and how its structured. Zero to do with 'kids picking up a footy'.

Very few get drafted at or over 20yo, per year...

retention of top end talent is fine everywhere other than the Lions academy catchment. Suns Academy kids who didn't make it are littered throughout the best 22 sides in the QAFL, most, if not all of them are all still playing.

same goes for other states.

 

[Required]

retention of top end talent is fine everywhere other than the Lions academy catchment. Suns Academy kids who didn't make it are littered throughout the best 22 sides in the QAFL, most, if not all of them are all still playing.

same goes for other states.

If thats the case, i dont know whats going on. Ive dissed a lot on the current running of the academy, but the actual concept of the academy i believe in.

My biggest gripe, has been having 100 kids and not playing them against eachother during the long pre season that began before xmas. Theres all sorts of reasons for actually watching them play hotly contested games vs eachother, and it wasnt done. In such an important year for most these boys, to not let them sort themselves out against eachother in intra academy games is pure negligence.

I imagine some kids are unhappy for not getting in the 35 after not even getting an opportunity to play against eachother, while others, in the 35, not happy they didnt get a chance to play in the academy games. Thats a lot of confused and angry boys. (and parents). I myself have questioned if its worth the hurdles they go through to continue playing. If only that they have to live with the body they are wrecking for another 40-50 years if they do continue to play to 30yo.

After such disappointment, a LIONS academy kid is much more likely to ask, "IS IT WORTH IT?' Sounds like the answer is 'NO'.

Part of the answer Lions academy rejects may be completely leaving the game;
* "I feel i was robbed of an opportunity to give it my best shot. Im pissed off with the whole thing".
While boys from other academies and states feel;
* "I was provided the opportunity to give it my best shot, wasn't quite good enough, no regrets".
.

 

[Miller1971]

Lions Academy have just posted that invites will go out June 10 for kids born in 2008 and 2009.

Cooincidentally, state championships are next weekend. So once again, likely making judgement on intake from micky mouse school comp.

We have 11 boys in the 'Met West' team for this carnival at our club, and a few in the 'Met East' team and some in the Darling Downs team.

There are 3 or 4 kids at our club, not in any of those teams - who are better than most of the 11 selected, if not all of them. Reasons could include that they were sick for the trials (or were a close contact), their school didn't even tell them about the trials, or they just weren't picked because the school regional trials are done reasonably well, but still a long way from a perfect science trying to pick from ~200 kids in a few hours of footy.

I also know another kid at a nearby club who isn't in any of those teams, but is an absolute star. If they are using these school carnivals to guide them, then they are crazy. Go and watch club footy, ask the club coaches or committee.

Whats amusing is that they posted that, then they edited their post to say their regional managers are out watching club football, talking to coaches and attending that micky mouse school carnival in Hervey Bay.

you're a club president and a junior coach tommo - have they spoken to you?

If thats the case, i dont know whats going on. Ive dissed a lot on the current running of the academy, but the actual concept of the academy i believe in.

My biggest gripe, has been having 100 kids and not playing them against eachother during the long pre season that began before xmas. Theres all sorts of reasons for actually watching them play hotly contested games vs eachother, and it wasnt done. In such an important year for most these boys, to not let them sort themselves out against eachother in intra academy games is pure negligence.

I imagine some kids are unhappy for not getting in the 35 after not even getting an opportunity to play against eachother, while others, in the 35, not happy they didnt get a chance to play in the academy games.

I think you're just unhappy your boy for whatever reason didn't play an intraclub.

They did play several intraclub games, which would suggest there were at least 44 given that opportunity. That is plenty.

I also know that kids from outside the 35 who weren't selected, but displayed strong club form were invited back and given another opportunity.

If your boy missed out, has he gone back and made a compelling case in club football? Is he playing Senior football in the QAFL? Is his QAFL coach advocating for him and his form? I don't know what club you're at, but some club coaches have a habit of closing up shop as they want to keep the kids playing club footy, so when/if the academy asks about their form - they don't exactly gush over the kid.

 

[irel]

Whats amusing is that they posted that, then they edited their post to say their regional managers are out watching club football, talking to coaches and attending that micky mouse school carnival in Hervey Bay.

you're a club president and a junior coach tommo - have they spoken to you?



I think you're just unhappy your boy for whatever reason didn't play an intraclub.

They did play several intraclub games, which would suggest there were at least 44 given that opportunity. That is plenty.

I also know that kids from outside the 35 who weren't selected, but displayed strong club form were invited back and given another opportunity.

If your boy missed out, has he gone back and made a compelling case in club football? Is he playing Senior football in the QAFL? Is his QAFL coach advocating for him and his form? I don't know what club you're at, but some club coaches have a habit of closing up shop as they want to keep the kids playing club footy, so when/if the academy asks about their form - they don't exactly gush over the kid.

Your post is very interesting, because if the information is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt it) it exposes most of the anti-academy talk on this thread as nothing more than hot air coming from aggrieved parents holding personal vendetta and grudge and manipulating the scenarios to suit their narrative.

 

[Miller1971]

not sure how you came to that conclusion. Definitely is a bit of that, but the dropout rate and other issues highlighted by Tommo is not great for local footy

 

[Required]

Your post is very interesting, because if the information is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt it) it exposes most of the anti-academy talk on this thread as nothing more than hot air coming from aggrieved parents holding personal vendetta and grudge and manipulating the scenarios to suit their narrative.

THEY DID NOT PLAY 1 INTRA ACADEMY GAME BEFORE CUTTING SQUAD. They played a game with the final 35 and a few u17s thrown in AFTER the squad was cut.
.

 

[Required]

Heres the game.


.

 

[Miller1971]

1. He did play 1 'intra-club'. BUT, The squad was already cut and it just involved the 35 plus some u17s.. So no. There were no intraclub games that went into choosing 35. He was in the 35 but never got a game. Ive been advocating for the boys who never got a chance to play well in intra academy games to make the final 35 squad.
2. They DID NOT play 1 single intra club game before squad cut.
3. Played ressies a few times. Done fine. Was to play 1sts but played colts so he could leave early to go to a mates 18th.
4. Coach says he did. We'll never know.
.

so he is playing reserves footy.

So I don't think missing out on academy games is holding him back from his dream, probably just talent/form.

If academy coaches thought him top 35, but his own club coach doesn't have him a walk up start for the 1s, then he aint draftable anyway - so why worry about it?

unless he is at broady or aspley, where the best 22 is hard to crack for an 18 year old - if you're not producing good senior QAFL footy at 18, then its time to self reflect and understand where your footy is at, and wasting time with the academy isn't any good for you anyway

 

[Required]

so he is playing reserves footy.

So I don't think missing out on academy games is holding him back from his dream, probably just talent/form.

If academy coaches thought him top 35, but his own club coach doesn't have him a walk up start for the 1s, then he aint draftable anyway - so why worry about it?

unless he is at broady or aspley, where the best 22 is hard to crack for an 18 year old - if you're not producing good senior QAFL footy at 18, then its time to self reflect and understand where your footy is at, and wasting time with the academy isn't any good for you anyway

Id agree with that, and thats exactly what ive said. "If you dont stand out in QAFL 1sts at 18yo, an AFL club wont want you at 19yo." That goes for everyone. Well, it should. I could nominate a few who peaked at 16yo and rode the coat tales of that early success into senoir footy and academy stuff.

But my whole point is about opportunity to get in the squad and ultimately the academy side. Less about any of them getting drafted as only 1 will. For the rest of them its just the journey. You just want to be given a chance to prove you deserve an opportunity to be part of that. Too many didnt get that chance.
.

 

[Required]

One hears a lot about when scouts/academy etc looks at talent and when it matters. Some parents think kids are being noticed at 12yo and that is rarely true. It probably does help to get in the conversation at that age to aid with recognition as one progresses through the age groups.

Ive witnessed kids peaking at 16yo and everything gets thrown at their feet. The next year they are promoted into seniors and it doesn't matter how well they go, because 'he's only a kid'. The kid is persevered with because hes a kid. Then BECAUSE he is in seniors the academy etc looks more favorable at him. "He's 17yo and already playing senior footy". It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, but few seem to notice the kid didnt improved on his 16yo form. Never will. He'll just get physically thicker and gain more experience. No doubt recent history in the QAFL can show many kids fall into the above described category.

The boys who peak with their growth (21yo?) who end up better footballers that the 16yo that peaked early, miss out. Perhaps life takes over and they give it away. The game does a poor job of catering for that. RL does better. They acknowledge it happens and have rep stuff to u21. The pressure on AFL footy boys to peak at 16-18 may be the main reason they feel they are such a 'perishable commodity". They are sold a dream with a very short 'best by date'.

.

 

[briztoon]

I have no idea what RL does better, but the idea that AFL kids need to be peak at 16 or 18 to get drafted shows a complete misunderstanding of how club recruiters think and work, compared to how an academy might work in my opinion.

Numerous club scouts and recruiters have mentioned on different podcasts or in interviews that they are often looking for traits or skills in kids that can be enhanced in a professional system, that will turn a kid in to an AFL player, and that we don’t draft finished products, because of the age of AFL draftees.

That’s pretty much why we (the Lions specifically) give every draftee a two year contract extension, so the kids know they have four years to show they belong. (This doesn’t apply to Rookie draftees, but young rookie draftees usually get at least 3 years on the list).

Our own head recruiter has specifically spoken about the amount of work they have put in to studying the development of late year birthday kids, who aren’t as physically developed as early year birth kids.

And has spoken about the advantages that early year births, and metro kids have over late year births and country kids, in terms of involvement in the elite pathways and opportunities to access elite training at underage level.

The AFL has also repeatedly shown that it will give kids/young men multiple opportunities and years to get in to the system.

Our own Captain is an example of a mature age success story, and the AFL is littered with such players.

If a kid gives up on their dream at 18 or 19, that’s on the kid and his/her support network (or lack there of), not on the AFL system that provides multiple opportunities to make a list.

National Draft, Rookie Draft, Preseason Supplemental Signing period, Mid Season Draft.


The reason we have a draft based recruit system is a different discussion, but in a National competition, where more than 50% of elite talent comes from one state, if we reverted to a zone or club based feeder system, get used to the Lions being permanently rooted to 18th spot on the ladder.

 

[Required]

I have no idea what RL does better, but the idea that AFL kids need to be peak at 16 or 18 to get drafted shows a complete misunderstanding of how club recruiters think and work, compared to how an academy might work in my opinion.

Numerous club scouts and recruiters have mentioned on different podcasts or in interviews that they are often looking for traits or skills in kids that can be enhanced in a professional system, that will turn a kid in to an AFL player, and that we don’t draft finished products, because of the age of AFL draftees.

That’s pretty much why we (the Lions specifically) give every draftee a two year contract extension, so the kids know they have four years to show they belong. (This doesn’t apply to Rookie draftees, but young rookie draftees usually get at least 3 years on the list).

Our own head recruiter has specifically spoken about the amount of work they have put in to studying the development of late year birthday kids, who aren’t as physically developed as early year birth kids.

And has spoken about the advantages that early year births, and metro kids have over late year births and country kids, in terms of involvement in the elite pathways and opportunities to access elite training at underage level.

The AFL has also repeatedly shown that it will give kids/young men multiple opportunities and years to get in to the system.

Our own Captain is an example of a mature age success story, and the AFL is littered with such players.

If a kid gives up on their dream at 18 or 19, that’s on the kid and his/her support network (or lack there of), not on the AFL system that provides multiple opportunities to make a list.

National Draft, Rookie Draft, Preseason Supplemental Signing period, Mid Season Draft.


The reason we have a draft based recruit system is a different discussion, but in a National competition, where more than 50% of elite talent comes from one state, if we reverted to a zone or club based feeder system, get used to the Lions being permanently rooted to 18th spot on the ladder.

Its been noted by a QAFL club president in an earlier post, that a large % of academy kids leave the game after their academy experience ends. Completely lost to the game. (18-20yo) I blame the draft as it puts a 'best by' date on kids, which after their 18th year effectively ends the dream they are sold. Thommo doesnt see the draft as a problem, and cites other factors. You can take or leave my opinion, but Thommos observation is from someone who really cares about QLD footy, and is in the thick of it.

I played RL years ago for Cootamundra u18s. There was a kid (cant remember his name) who mostly couldnt make the team, or was on the bench and may get a few minutes at the games end. By 20yo he was selected for (mens) NSW country 1sts! That was when NSW country teams were competitive vs NSW city (NRL rep side)! and players who made that side were generally good enough to have a crack at the NRL. He didnt get much bigger, he just got good. Now, presuming Thommo is correct with the amount of talented academy kids who drop out after their 18th year, (academy should have the stats) then thats a lot of kids who may have been still a year or two from their talent maturing.

All your "National Draft, Rookie Draft, Preseason Supplemental Signing period, Mid Season Draft" is a piss up the wall if Lions academy kids are leaving the game after their 'Draft mandated, best by date' has expired and in some cases, havent yet seen their talent mature. You can make your own decision as to why they may be leaving, but leaving they are.

Something is going wrong. No players drafted from Lions zone last year, and perhaps only 1 this year. 2002, 2003 and 2004 were age groups that were encouraged into the game by all the advertising and hoopla created with the inception of the suns around 2009-20011. It should have resulted in three strong years of academy talent. Why only 1 player from tthe last two years of kids is draft able is confusing.There obviously have been mistakes made. Like a glider crash, it takes about 8 consecutive mistakes for a crash to occur. But its hard to argue it hasnt happened.

 

[Miller1971]

Plenty of blokes getting drafted after their draft year, including those from QLD.

Samson Ryan, Tom Bell

Tom Bell

Age

34

Ht

188cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.5

5star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.6

3star

, Josh Smith, Adam Oxley, Brayden Preuss, Ben Hudson

Ben Hudson

Age

47

Ht

199cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

17.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

3.8

3star

HO

9.8

5star

jsut off the top of my head were taken from QLD system 12 months or several years after their first draft eligible year.

Don't blame the draft, kids giving the game away at 19-20 is a problem almost exclusive to the Brisbane Lions Academy. Even 50km down the road it isn't happening.

 

[briztoon]

Its been noted by a QAFL club president in an earlier post, that a large % of academy kids leave the game after their academy experience ends. Completely lost to the game. (18-20yo) I blame the draft as it puts a 'best by' date on kids, which after their 18th year effectively ends the dream they are sold. Thommo doesnt see the draft as a problem, and cites other factors. You can take or leave my opinion, but Thommos observation is from someone who really cares about QLD footy, and is in the thick of it.

I played RL years ago for Cootamundra u18s. There was a kid (cant remember his name) who mostly couldnt make the team, or was on the bench and may get a few minutes at the games end. By 20yo he was selected for (mens) NSW country 1sts! That was when NSW country teams were competitive vs NSW city (NRL rep side)! and players who made that side were generally good enough to have a crack at the NRL. He didnt get much bigger, he just got good. Now, presuming Thommo is correct with the amount of talented academy kids who drop out after their 18th year, (academy should have the stats) then thats a lot of kids who may have been still a year or two from their talent maturing.

All your "National Draft, Rookie Draft, Preseason Supplemental Signing period, Mid Season Draft" is a piss up the wall if Lions academy kids are leaving the game after their 'Draft mandated, best by date' has expired and in some cases, havent yet seen their talent mature. You can make your own decision as to why they may be leaving, but leaving they are.

Something is going wrong. No players drafted from Lions zone last year, and perhaps only 1 this year. 2002, 2003 and 2004 were age groups that were encouraged into the game by all the advertising and hoopla created with the inception of the suns around 2009-20011. It should have resulted in three strong years of academy talent. Why only 1 player from tthe last two years of kids is draft able is confusing.There obviously have been mistakes made. Like a glider crash, it takes about 8 consecutive mistakes for a crash to occur. But its hard to argue it hasnt happened.

I was specifically replying only to your view that the draft is to blame for kids leaving the game.

I don’t believe it is, neither does Thommo 42.

There are dozens of examples every year where over age and mature age players make it on to lists.

You only have to look at Keidean Coleman to see a kid who missed out in his draft year, but gave it a crack the year after, and was drafted.

If a kid doesn’t make “it”, it’s because multiple clubs, over multiple years don’t believe the kid has what it takes to succeed, whether that be athleticism, skills, mental fortitude or there’s off field issues at play.

The vast majority of kids dropping out of the game from the Lions academy, aren’t dropping out because of the draft, because in all likelihood, none of them were ever actually a chance of being drafted.

I’m not saying there isn’t a problem at the Lions academy.

But I am saying your assertion that the draft is to blame for them dropping out is misguided.

 

[Required]

Plenty of blokes getting drafted after their draft year, including those from QLD.

Samson Ryan, Tom Bell, Josh Smith, Adam Oxley, Brayden Preuss, Ben Hudson jsut off the top of my head were taken from QLD system 12 months or several years after their first draft eligible year.

Don't blame the draft, kids giving the game away at 19-20 is a problem almost exclusive to the Brisbane Lions Academy. Even 50km down the road it isn't happening.

'Plenty' do not. 'Occasionally' they do. Though you can add Buzza to that list. One of the Colemans?

Mark Browning has said QLD kids dont get any favours as per age, and 19yo isnt an extra consideration for Northern kids. Which i think is bizarre.

I will blame the draft as part of the problem ... as it is directly involved by giving kids a 'best by date'. I think it is Communism, while RL is totally free market, but as Briztoon said, its a different subject.

*As for the retention rate of the 18yo kids from the various academies after their draft year, we would have to see some statistics before you can say it isnt happening elsewhere.

 

[Required]

I was specifically replying only to your view that the draft is to blame for kids leaving the game.

(1) I don’t believe it is, neither does Thommo 42.

(2) There are dozens of examples every year where over age and mature age players make it on to lists.

You only have to look at Keidean Coleman to see a kid who missed out in his draft year, but gave it a crack the year after, and was drafted.

If a kid doesn’t make “it”, it’s because multiple clubs, over multiple years don’t believe the kid has what it takes to succeed, whether that be athleticism, skills, mental fortitude or there’s off field issues at play.

(3)The vast majority of kids dropping out of the game from the Lions academy, aren’t dropping out because of the draft, because in all likelihood, none of them were ever actually a chance of being drafted.

(4)I’m not saying there isn’t a problem at the Lions academy.

(5)But I am saying your assertion that the draft is to blame for them dropping out is misguided.

(1) I said Thommo didnt . Whats your point?
(2) Easy. Name last years "DOZENS". 2 dozen will do.
(3) Dont just poo poo my thoughts, express some of your own ideas for the academies failures. Havent seen you post 1 reason yet.
(4) You do your best to defend them by attacking me. But you fail to come up with a single idea of what may be a problem. I think the best youve done is blame parents for saying something..
(5) Its just my opinion. Offer your own.
.