AFL Introduces Wild Card Round

[Dan26]

Yeah, you absolutely can. You want the best teams playing off in the finals not teams that could barely scrape together more wins than losses on the season.

Hypothetically, by your logic, if somehow in the future the league strectched to 24 teams, you'd be advocating for a final 12

Final 8 is as many finalists as i required regardless of league size

Of course you'd have a final-12 with 24 teams. Duh! Hardly a controversial opinion when we had a final-8 with 16 teams. It's mathematically identical (50% making the finals under both scenarios).

The AFL is as much in the entertainment industry as they are in sports industry. Minimizing dead rubbers, creating more fan engagement towards the end of the season, and adding more to the TV rights are not trivial things. They are vitally important things. Moving to a 10 team finals system, as the league is soon to expand to 19 teams is no different that moving to a final-6 when we moved from 12 to 14 teams, then introducing a final 8 when we moved to 16 teams. Now we are soon to be at 19.

The regressive sooky attitude by so many in here is so typical. I've seen it for years. Make any sort of change and the sooks come out. Then one year after that they all shut up abut that issue and we never hear from the again. It happened with the final eight 32 years ago. People on talkback radio sooked and whined. They said all the same things people are saying in this thread. Then one year after it as introduced, they all shut up and got used to it.

It's just part of life and being human. Humans don't like change.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The reaction just goes to show you that the fans know nothing. If the fans were in charge, they wouldn't want to change anything.

• There was opposition to the final-6 when it came in
• There was HUGE opposition to the final-8 when it came in (in the 15 team league in 1994)
• there was opposition to the national competition.
• there was opposition to non-Vic teams getting home finals. I remember Allan McAllister saying that all finals should be played in Victoria and he wasn't alone.

• there was opposition to teams moving out of their traditional home grounds
• there was massive opposition before the first ever night final between Essendon and Carlton in 1993.

etc etc

Virtually every move was opposed by the riff-raff, and every move was in retrospect the right thing to do. I notice the riff-raff is alive in well in here. The "leave-the-game-alone" crowd need to be ignored.

The fans don't like change, but they always come around to it eventually. It'll be the same when the GF is moved to night/twilight. The fans will whine and then get over it in 12 months time.

We had a final-8 in a 16 team league when 50% of the teams made the finals.

We will soon be at 19 teams, so 50% of 19 is 9.5 (rounded up to 10) so 10 is the right number. Keeps more teams involved, less dead -rubbers etc. Same proportion as 8 in the 16-team league.

My opposition is that it is the wrong type of final-10. Should have been a knockout version. But 10 is clearly the right number.

we are not yet at 19 teams. 10 out of 18 is rewarding mediocrity

 

[ImCheatingToWin]

Of course you'd have a final-12 with 24 teams. Duh! Hardly a controversial opinion when we had a final-8 with 16 teams. It's mathematically identical (50% making the finals under both scenarios).

The AFL is as much in the entertainment industry as they are in sports industry. Minimizing dead rubbers, creating more fan engagement towards the end of the season, and adding more to the TV rights are not trivial things. They are vitally important things. Moving to a 10 team finals system, as the league is soon to expand to 19 teams is no different that moving to a final-6 when we moved from 12 to 14 teams, then introducing a final 8 when we moved to 16 teams. Now we are soon to be at 19.

The regressive sooky attitude by so many in here is so typical. I've seen it for years. Make any sort of change and the sooks come out. Then one year after that they all shut up abut that issue and we never hear from the again. It happened with the final eight 32 years ago. People on talkback radio sooked and whined. They said all the same things people are saying in this thread. Then one year after it as introduced, they all shut up and got used to it.

It's just part of life and being human. Humans don't like change.

Spoken like someone who's never played a day of competitive sport in their life. No one wants to see garbage teams make the finals, just because numberz

 

[Dee Train]

Meeting between the AFL, Channel 7 and Fox. Fans can GAGF

 

[Dan26]

we are not yet at 19 teams. 10 out of 18 is rewarding mediocrity

Who cares? If you think 9th and 10th aren't any good, then wait one week and we will be back to the 8 that you prefer. It's in the entertainment industry. It's a final series that has been inherently unfair for 100 years. Finals, by their very nature are unfair. You can win every game and lose the Preliminary Final. That's unfair. But we like it because it's entertaining. That's why we have finals in the first place - not because they're fair, but because they're entertaining.

If you want fair, then start advocating for top spot to be awarded the premiership after everyone plays everyone else once , have no Grand Final and the best team wins the premiership. That fair. It's boring, but fair. Finals are about making the premiership race entertaining, and fan engagement, minimising dead rubbers are EXTREMELY important things. They add to the interest of the casual fan, and add more to the TV rights.

 

[Dan26]

Well I'm not going away. My view is the AFL's view so I win, you lose. By the way don't swear. Not that I care ( I don't) but it will obviously get you banned, and I don't want people to be banned. Its a vile slur, and everyone can see you're trying to get around the swear filter.

If you can't mount an argument without slurs then your argument must be bad, otherwise you'd make a case without resorting to insults. I can make a good argument, I can back it up, and I can use histroy, facts and figures, common-sense, and logic to make my case. Which I have done. You can't do that. You resort to the "C' word instead.

Try again. I'll be waiting.

 

[Dan26]

Spoken like someone who's never played a day of competitive sport in their life. No one wants to see garbage teams make the finals, just because numberz

I've played lots of competitive sport. I'd suggest a lot more than you. It's not radical to have half the teams make the finals. The NBA have 20 out of 32 for instance. I wouldn't go that far, but half is more than acceptable (or in the AFL's case half plus one)

Remember, this is being done in preparation for Tasmania's entry into the AFL. You can't have half of 19, so you round up to 10. The AFL is not just a sporting league. It's very much in the entertainment industry. That's a fact, not an opinion. These are billion dollar TV rights, we are talking about.

All that's happened is that the AFL have added three teams to the league, increasing the teams from 16 to 19. And they have expanded the finals to cater for this increase. It's not exactly a radical change.

Think about it
8 teams in a 16 team league - everyone is happy.

Increase three teams.

Add two spots to the finals as a response to this, and a bunch of regressives act like the world has ended.

It's so laughably predictable how humans react to change. You'd think the regressives would have a bit of self-awareness. This EXACT same discussion happened in 1994.

 

[ImCheatingToWin]

I've played lots of competitive sport. I'd suggest a lot more than you.

Of course you have sweetheart

You seem to be of the opinion that because your beliefs align with the idiots that are running the AFL right now makes you " right" That's not the flex you've led yourself to believe it is champ.

Rewarding mediocrity it will make for just riveting viewing.

 

[Foxx]

So 7th and 8th have to qualify for finals twice?

And sides that will finish between 7-10 will rest players in the last round. It wont matter if they win or lose to finish inside the 8.

 

[Dan26]

Of course you have sweetheart

You seem to be of the opinion that because your beliefs align with the idiots that are running the AFL right now makes you " right" That's not the flex you've led yourself to believe it is champ.

Rewarding mediocrity it will make for just riveting viewing.

Having half the teams making the finals is essentially no different to 8 out of 16 making it from 1995-2010. Fan engagement and minimising dead rubbers are important. My only criticism is that’s it’s the wrong type of final-10.

I’ve advocated for a knockout system for years (similar in concept to the NFL playoffs) and a knockout final 10 which I’ve talked about on Bigfooty for a long time would be better than this 5-week final-10 that the AFL are going with. My system is 4 weeks pure knockout with the week off before the GF extending it to 5 weeks.

But the idea of 10 teams in the finals is clearly correct. The AFL have introduced 3 new teams moving from 16 to 19. It clearly makes perfect sense to increase the amount of finalists as the amount of teams increase. I mean DUH!! The AFL have expanded the finals numerous times as the number of teams has increased. The AFL are doing exactly what they did in 1991 and 1994. It’s hardly radical. Getting upset about it just makes you look precious. Just look at history. This happens all the time when the competition expands.

 

[Altum Volantes]

So 7th and 8th have to qualify for finals twice?

And sides that will finish between 7-10 will rest players in the last round. It wont matter if they win or lose to finish inside the 8.

That's pretty unlikely, given things like the prospect of getting to 6th (or falling to 11th..), home ground advantage and such will likely be at play.

Think of it this way -

Top 6 are in the finals
7 to 10 are in the 'play in'
11 to 18/19 are done

3 groups instead of 2.

 

[jwikked]

Dork alert

Dork alert

My view is the AFL's view so I win, you lose

 

[doppleganger]

we are not yet at 19 teams. 10 out of 18 is rewarding mediocrity

People are coming at it from the wrong perspective.

Previously we had two tiers - top 4 and bottom 4.
Now we have three - top 4, middle 2 and a bottom 4. AFL have just elevated the importance of the finishing top 6.

I like Dan's straight knock-out top 10, but don't think it will happen.

What I think is more palatable is to actually run two separate final 5s (like the old finals).

GroupA - 1,4,5,8,9
GroupB - 2,3,6,7,10

It becomes a 5 week finals, only bye goes to top 2 teams - actually give them a reward.

Week 1 (4 finals) 2 Elim finals & 2 qualifying finals
Week 2 (4 finals) 2 major semis & 2 minor semis
Week 3 2 prelim finals
Week 4 2 group finals
Week 5 the Grand Final between respective group champions.

Get an extra 4 finals doing it that way.

The advantages are just like the old final 5 (but two groups)

Finish H&A in 1 or 2
Reward is get Wk1 off, and a home DBL chance in Wk2...so are guaranteed week 3 of finals (prelim final week) where knock-out kicks in - need to win 3 finals to be premier.

Finish H&A in 3 or 4
Both teams get a home final in week 1 and have a DBL chance to use in Wk1 or Wk2. They are only guaranteed to make week 2 of finals (semi week) - need to win 4 finals to be premier.

Finish H&A in 5 or 6
Both teams get away final in week 1 and have a DBL chance to use in Wk1 or Wk2. They are only guaranteed to make week 2 of finals (semi finals) - need to win 4 finals to be premier.

Finish H&A in 7 or 8
Knock-out finals all the way, but a home final in week 1. Need to win 5 finals to be premier.

Finish H&A in 9&10
Knock-out away finals all the way. Need to win 5 finals to be premier.

 

[Dan26]

Moved Thread - The AFL will almost certainly introduce a Final-10 when Tasmania joins the AFL. Here is a poll with 5 different systems. Which do you prefer?

The AFL will almost certainly be moving to a 10-team finals system when Tasmania joins the AFL, and maybe as early as next year. I've provided 5 different systems. Four of them are final-10's and one of them is a final-9. Which do you you prefer? Let me know in the poll. FINAL 10 SYSTEM...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Dan26]

“The AFL will almost certainly be moving to a 10-team finals system when Tasmania joins the AFL, and maybe as early as next year. I've provided 5 different systems. Four of them are final-10's and one of them is a final-9. Which do you you prefer? Let me know in the poll.




FINAL 10 SYSTEM NUMBER 1

This system is just the regular final-8 we have now, with 7 v 10 and 8 v 9 in what we now have as the "week off" in what the media refer to as wildcard games, but in reality are just two elimination finals. Then it's the regular final-8 from week two onwards.

Number of finals: 11 finals over 5 weeks.

WEEK 1 (winners to week 2, losers out)
1st elimination final: 7 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9

WEEK 2
1st Qualifying Final: 1 v 4
2nd Qualifying Final: 2 v 3
3rd Elimination Final : 5 v 8
4th Elimination Final : 6 v 7


WEEK 3
1st Semi-Final: Loser of 1Q vs winner of 3E
2nd Semi-Final: Loser of 2Q vs Winner of 4E

WEEK 4
1st Preliminary Final: Winner of Q1 vs winner of 2nd-semi
2nd Preliminary Final: Winner of Q2 vs winner of 1st semi

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)




FINAL 10 SYSTEM NUMBER 2

This system is total knockout but ensures the top teams cannot be eliminated any earlier than week 2. This is my preferred system. Same amount of finals as we have now as under the current final-8 and a week off before the Grand Final, whilst maintaining the pre-finals bye for the top 6

Number of finals: 9 finals over 5 weeks. (it's a 4 week system, extended to 5 weeks with the bye before the Grand Final)


WEEK 1 (winners to week 2, losers out)
1st elimination final: 7 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9

WEEK 2 (winners to week 3, losers out)
1st Semi Final: 1st vs lowest ranked Elimination final winner (1 v 8)
2nd Semi Final: 2nd vs highest ranked Elimination final winner (2 v 7)
3rd Semi Final : 3 v 6
4th Semi Final : 4 v 5

WEEK 3 (winners to Grand Final, losers out)
1st Preliminary Final: highest ranked team vs lowest ranked team (1 v 4)
2nd Preliminary Final: 2nd-highest ranked team vs 2nd lowest ranked team (2 v 3)

WEEK 4
Bye (ensuring 14 day break for Grand Final)

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)




FINAL 10 SYSTEM NUMBER 3

This system is the old McIntyre final-5 system, doubled. Effectively two final-5's where the two winners play in the Grand Final. Winners in bold. I personally think it's too long with too many finals

Number of finals: 13 finals over 5 weeks.

WEEK 1 (1st and 2nd have a week off)
1st elimination final: 7 v 10.... loser out
2nd elimination Final: 8 v 9 ..... loser out
1st Qualifying Final: 3 v 6 .... winner to Major Semi-Final, loser to minor semi-final
2nd Qualifying Final: 4 v 5.... winner to Major-Semi-Final, loser to minor semi-final


WEEK 2
1st Major Semi-Final: 1st vs lowest QF winner (1 v 4)........ winner to Prelim. Loser to week 3
2nd Major Semi-Final: 2nd vs highest QF winner (2 v 3)...... winner to Prelim loser to week 3
1st Minor-Semi-Final : highest QF loser vs lowest Elimination final winner (5 v 8) ............ winner to week 3 loser out
2nd Minor Semi Final : lowest QF loser vs highest elimination Final winner (6 v 7)..... winner to week 3 loser out


WEEK 3
1st Semi-Final: Lowest Major-Semi Final loser vs highest Minor-semi final winner (4 v 5)
2nd Semi-Final: Highest Major-Semi Final loser vs lowest Minor semi-Final winner (3 v 6)

WEEK 4
1st Preliminary Final: Highest Major-Semi Final winner vs lowest Semi-Final winner (1v 4)
2nd Preliminary Final: Lowest Major Semi Final winner vs highest Semi-final winner (2v 3)

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)




FINAL 10 SYSTEM NUMBER 4

This system has 9 finals over 4 weeks (extended to 5 weeks with the bye before the Grand Final and is total knockout)

Number of finals: 9 finals over 4 weeks (5 weeks with the bye before the Grand Final)

WEEK 1 (losers out)... Five matches so there are 5 winners. The three highest placed winners go to week 3. The two lowest placed winners go to week 2
1st elimination final: 1 v 10
2nd elimination Final: 2 v 9
3rd elimination final: 3 v 8
4th Elimination final: 4 v 7
5th Elimination Final: 5 v 6


WEEK 2
1st Semi-Final: the two lowest placed winners from week one play off. (4 v 5)


WEEK 3
1st Preliminary Final: Highest-placed week one winner vs winner of semi-final (1 v 4)
2nd Preliminary Final: 2nd highest week one winner vs 3rd-highest week one winner (2 v 3)

WEEK 4
BYE

WEEK 5
Grand Final (1 v 2)




(FINAL 9 ALTERNATIVE.) SYSTEM NUMBER 5

This system has 8 finals over 4 weeks, is total knockout and features 9 teams, not 10

Number of finals: 8 finals over 4 weeks

WEEK 1 (losers out)... 1st 2nd, and 3rd all have a week off
1st elimination final: 4 v 9
2nd elimination Final: 5 v 8
3rd elimination final: 6 v 7


WEEK 2 (losers out) highest-placed winner to Grand Final. The other two winners to week 3
1st Semi-Final: 1st vs lowest week one winner (1 v 6)
2nd Semi-Final: 2nd vs 2nd-lowest week one winner (2 v 5)
3rd Semi-Final: 3rd vs highest week one winner (3 v 4)
* so if 1st win, they are guaranteed to be the highest-placed winner and therefore go to the Grand Final. If 1st lose then 2nd - should they beat 5th- goes to the GF


WEEK 3
Preliminary Final: The two lowest-placed semi-Final winners play off. (2 v 3)


WEEK 4
Grand Final (1 v 2)

 

[cartwright]

What a load of shite

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Until everyone plays everyone just once or twice, the draw will be unfair in some capacity, and the difference between positions can be minute.


It does reward mediocrity but most people will come around to it once it's their team in the precarious positions below eighth..

 

[BomberManU]

"Increase three teams.
Add two spots to the finals as a response to this"

But why does this have to be the case? Why is the numbers of finals to number of teams so important? I'd say the length of the finals series/number of games/'deserving' teams is much more important.
Of all the things that need fixing in the game, the finals system is way down the list.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

A final-10 is a good idea. It was 8 teams making it in a 16 team league. We have added three teams yet not increased the finalists, so it makes sense to have 10 making it in a (soon to be) 19 team league.

But it's not a "wild card" They are just elimination finals in a 5-week final-10

It's like saying that the current final-8 is really just a final 6 with a "wild card of "5v8 and 6v7"

They are just elimination finals, so call them that.

It's the wrong final-10 through. Should be the knockout final-10 that I've been promoting for years.

I'd prefer a final-9, so then half the competition qualifies, using a similar finals system to the 1994-1999 one someone proposed but giving the minor premiers an advantage.

 

[Dan26]

I'd prefer a final-9, so then half the competition qualifies, using a similar finals system to the 1994-1999 one someone proposed but giving the minor premiers an advantage.

What do you think of my final-9? Look back a couple of posts.

 

[Ross]

Branding a couple of extra elimination finals as "wildcard" finals is pretty dumb, but increasing the number of teams who play in the finals as the league grows in size is perfectly fine. I don't know if this format is how they should go for a ten team finals series and I'd have waited until Tasmania enter before bumping it up to ten teams but whatever.

The AFL has done a lot of things that are much stupider than this.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

What do you think of my final-9? Look back a couple of posts.

Yeah, I think it may have been your final-9 system, it's a really good one, wish that was the one used since it's 4 weeks, rewards the minor premiers, and brings in 50 percent of the teams into finals.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

No side finishing 7-10 in this system will have any chance of winning a flag.

What's the point besides money?

Guess I answered my own question.

 

[Whiskers]

No side finishing 7-10 in this system will have any chance of winning a flag.

What's the point besides money?

Guess I answered my own question.

There must be a point. Otherwise they would have 3v6 and 4v5 aswell with the winners taking the Qualifying finals spots, having 4 games that week getting even more money instead of just 2.

I have no idea why the AFL is doing this half baked when they can get even more finals.

 

[coastalpipeline]

We know why they're doing it. More money.
In the NBA, fans hate it. Players hate it.
But more broadcasting and advertising money.

Open round & Wild card round can go both suck a fat 1