AFL Prospectus

[mopsy]

Wow even more reason why one should just ignore stats altogether.

 

[silence ofthe Robert]

It's by position.

Edwards is elite for a mid/forward

Cotchin is a mid, and isn't quite in the top bracket that is elite.

Correct. Strictly by ratings Cotchin is about 15 and Shed about 50 in the AFL, but most of those above Cotch are mids, while only 2 or 3 above Shed and forward/mids.

Also why Prestia rated average. He is around 100 but improved from about 250. Will move into above average category next year if he stays fit as should Nank and a couple of others.

 

[mopsy]

All rated in average except for Lambert who was rated above ave overall however

Astbury is Rated elite for intercept marks

Grimes Above Ave for intercept marks and possessions

Prestias numbers were all down across the board his worst numbers since 2012 so it looks like those injury’s really effected his form and has a lot of scope for improvement with a full pre season and also not being his first year at a new club

Not questioning Grimes worth to the team but how does a bloke get rated elite for possesions when he only touches the ball 10 times a game. intercept marks!!! he took just 72 marks for the yr and just 13 were contested.

 

[mopsy]

It's by position.

Edwards is elite for a mid/forward

Cotchin is a mid, and isn't quite in the top bracket that is elite.

Clearly theres elite and then theres elite.
How does Edwards stack up to Robbie Gray you know the bloke who played mostly fwd with good stints in the middle. Yep 47 goals to 11

Edwards finals were v/good but he was awful a lot of time through the yr.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Clearly theres elite and then theres elite.
How does Edwards stack up to Robbie Gray you know the bloke who played mostly fwd with good stints in the middle. Yep 47 goals to 11

Edwards finals were v/good but he was awful a lot of time through the yr.

If finals are the yard stick then he aced it

 

[Roachy8]

God this site is depressing reading sometimes.
We proved ourselves to be the #1 team in the comp last year - we won the whole thing. As the best team.
Yet nit- picking about individual performance is still such a magnet for some.

 

[JR82]

Not questioning Grimes worth to the team but how does a bloke get rated elite for possesions when he only touches the ball 10 times a game. intercept marks!!! he took just 72 marks for the yr and just 13 were contested.

It seems other get less than he does & he's in the top 15% or whatever they use to work it out.

 

[TJASTA]

Can't wait to get my hands on this prospectus. It's usually when my only good fantasy football decisions come from.

 

[strauchy]

What does it say about jack Higgins and his under 18 stats?
What about the other draftees to look out for?

 

[EyeloveRichmond]

Edwards elite Can toss that prospectus in the bin.
Or better still, put it up in the book shelf alongside To Kill A Mockingbird, Catcher in the Rye, Don Quixote, The Count of Monte Cristo and Emma and those other great works of fiction!

He is elite, not sure what you're laughing about. Still get's underrated. Makes things happen that not many can, has one of the best hands in the comp, tackles very well also for his size, great vision & awareness and is great in tight. Let me guess, i bet you loved Tucky when he played yeh? More your cup of tea?

 

[Goldust]

He is elite, not sure what you're laughing about. Still get's underrated. Makes things happen that not many can, has one of the best hands in the comp, tackles very well also for his size, great vision & awareness and is great in tight. Let me guess, i bet you loved Tucky when he played yeh? More your cup of tea?

When you think of 'ELITE' players, you think Brownlow Medals, club best and fairests, top three best and fairest finishes (regularly), consistent Brownlow voting, high numbers of goals, or consistently among the leaders of media or AFL coaches awards ........ hence players of the ilk of Dangerfield, Hodge, Bontempelli, G. Ablett, Selwood, Bontempelli, Franklin, Josh Kennedy, Hannebery, Pendlebury and our own Dusty and Cotchin have stamped themselves as ELITE. Edwards is nowhere near this class.
Yes I would take Tucky over Edwards and he'd probably be thought of much highly than the high regard he is held in if he was afforded the same chances as Titch, who has been wildly inconsistent yet never been dropped.
Yes, I admire your defence of Edwards, but unlike a lot who post here mate, I don't consider the history of the Richmond FC to comprise three games in September 2017. Go back and watch the three elimination finals losses. Edwards - as one of the so-called leaders of our club - was putrid in all three. Save for a tackle that should have been rewarded against North Melbourne in the last quarter you would struggle to realise he was was actually playing. He has p[ayed three great finals and three very ordinary ones and that encapsulates his career. Some great and a swag of other poor performances in big games.
For an elite payer, Edwards has a solo top five finish in our best and fairest and two in the top and was equal 13th this year. That's not elite.
And funnily enough ...... you'll use these rankings to claim he's elite but I bet you argue against the two Brisbane blokes rated as elite and several others at rival clubs not being elite.

 

[TigermanM2]

Surely Jack is in there as elite.....Jack Graham that is.

 

[Roachy8]

Surely Jack is in there as elite.....Jack Graham that is.

Certainly he is the most elite 5 game player in the comp!

 

[Muddiemoose]

Just having a look over Shane Edward’s numbers the thing that seems to push him up is his score involvements
He Ave in that particular stat is 6.8 witch is elite interesting enough the only person who has a higher Ave per game in this stat is Dusty with an ave of 9

 

[silence ofthe Robert]

Just having a look over Shane Edward’s numbers the thing that seems to push him up is his score involvements
He Ave in that particular stat is 6.8 witch is elite interesting enough the only person who has a higher Ave per game in this stat is Dusty with an ave of 9

Is that at Richmond or AFL wide Muddie.

 

[Muddiemoose]

What does it say about jack Higgins and his under 18 stats?
What about the other draftees to look out for?

Jack Higgins is a best going by champion data rankings he is rated either elite or above Ave in every single stat and no player has ever aved more across Jr Careers

Balta seems to have played a lot of different positions witch makes him hard to read and compare to other players they have him listed here as a key forward but also ranking quite high for intercept marks when playing defense so I think it will be a while before the club works out his best position very similar to Rance in that regard

Colmeman Jones has a knee injury half way through the season but according to champion data he’s rated elite in disposals, score involvements, hitouts to advantage and contested disposals
Looks like the club has played “money ball” with this pick and could be on to a winner

Naish was the highest ranked player in meters gained in the under 18’s comp but he’s contested ball numbers were extremely low

Ben Miller ranked elite for uncontested possessions, goals, assists and score involvements and above Ave in disposals, contested possessions, intercept marks , hitouts to advantage and intercept marks also ranking fourth in the goal kicking test at the combine

Along with Coleman jones miller looks really promising but I’m unsure if we will see them this year just because talls tend to take a few years in the system before being played

In terms of rookies Ben Miller had good numbers across the boad playing as a small forward playing in the colts in W.A. I think he was a best available pick at that point in the rookie draft hard to place weather the club sees him as just a depth player or have plans for him in the future

And finally Derek Eggmolesse-Smith we drafted though our academy playing for Bendigo pioneers and our vfl last year has some nice numbers as a defender intercept possessions stands out

 

[Muddiemoose]

Is that at Richmond or AFL wide Muddie.

2nd at Richmond afl wide he’s in the top tier

 

[silence ofthe Robert]

No worries Muddie. Answered my own question here Dusty 2 and Shed 42.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2017&rt=LA&st=SI

 

[Fraser67]

As long as people understand that "elite" in this context is just Champion Data elite that's fine. Stats can be handy at times but they tell barely half the story. Apart from anything else the game is constantly evolving so what is seen as important now may be a lot less relevant in 2 years. Look at the focus on pressure acts at the moment. How many people were talking constantly about the need for small forward pressure 3 years ago ? It varies from year to year. Due to the nature of the evolution of the game the stats will always be behind as they're based on what worked in previous years. It's still good to look at stats but it's like stopping a book halfway through or watching half a film & rating them. As long as you look at them as a supplement to how you rate players / teams that's fine. If you cling to stats to judge whether a player is elite or not, well you probably need to watch more football live

 

[Muddiemoose]

No worries Muddie. Answered my own question here Dusty 2 and Shed 42.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2017&rt=LA&st=SI

It must be if a player is ranked in the top 50 in a stat it push’s them into that elite category

 

[Muddiemoose]

As long as people understand that "elite" in this context is just Champion Data elite that's fine. Stats can be handy at times but they tell barely half the story. Apart from anything else the game is constantly evolving so what is seen as important now may be a lot less relevant in 2 years. Look at the focus on pressure acts at the moment. How many people were talking constantly about the need for small forward pressure 3 years ago ? It varies from year to year. Due to the nature of the evolution of the game the stats will always be behind as they're based on what worked in previous years. It's still good to look at stats but it's like stopping a book halfway through or watching half a film & rating them. As long as you look at them as a supplement to how you rate players / teams that's fine. If you cling to stats to judge whether a player is elite or not, well you probably need to watch more football live

You have hit the nail on the head here mate, Cotch is rated above Ave witch might be the case as a midfielder but to me this year his leadership was off the charts, some of the things he did esp in the finals may just come across as a contested ground ball get or handball to advantage in paper were defying moments in games or setting the standard for the team witch elevated everyone else’s performance

 

[Grrr]

Just having a look over Shane Edward’s numbers the thing that seems to push him up is his score involvements
He Ave in that particular stat is 6.8 witch is elite interesting enough the only person who has a higher Ave per game in this stat is Dusty with an ave of 9

Edwards had a very good season and a brilliant finals series. His ability to transition chains of attacking football is easily one of the best in the league. He is a bit in the Cyril Rioli group, who when they touch the ball something happens. Rarely does a footballer who plays like that, play like that every week. Maurice Rioli was one. Robbie Gray as Goldie mentions is absolutely elite is another.
But he is also the icing on the cake type player, a bit like Cyril (who is better player), they don't always play so well when the team doesn't. So he does attract his detractors, especially early in his career, but to me along with Dusty and maybe Jack, he is our most creative player. Is he elite, no, but he has elite hands and creativity.

 

[mopsy]

He is elite, not sure what you're laughing about. Still get's underrated. Makes things happen that not many can, has one of the best hands in the comp, tackles very well also for his size, great vision & awareness and is great in tight. Let me guess, i bet you loved Tucky when he played yeh? More your cup of tea?

Your not watching him His tackles are mostly ineffective because he doesnt use his body just reaches in with his arms he does this an awful lot when going for the ball as well instead of body lining it he just reaches in.

Im not sure how he can be classified as elite
He averages just 16 disposals a game this despite being freed up with decent midfield time, when hes bad he just does not get it.
He lays less than three tackles a game and many are ineffective, so much for fwd half pressure. AS a goal kicker he goes at just 0.6 goals a game.
He manages just 2.5 clearances a game.
The two areas he does do well in is inside with c/p he gets his fair share with 7.5 a game which is about average id say . This allows his elite hands to come to the fore.Yes his hands in tight are great but its just one thing.
All i can say is in some categories there is a very low bench mark to qualify as elite.
To me hes an average player with one or two good attributes along with some pretty poor ones.

 

[JR82]

Your not watching him His tackles are mostly ineffective because he doesnt use his body just reaches in with his arms he does this an awful lot when going for the ball as well instead of body lining it he just reaches in.

Im not sure how he can be classified as elite
He averages just 16 disposals a game this despite being freed up with decent midfield time, when hes bad he just does not get it.
He lays less than three tackles a game and many are ineffective, so much for fwd half pressure. AS a goal kicker he goes at just 0.6 goals a game.
He manages just 2.5 clearances a game.
The two areas he does do well in is inside with c/p he gets his fair share with 7.5 a game which is about average id say . This allows his elite hands to come to the fore.Yes his hands in tight are great but its just one thing.
All i can say is in some categories there is a very low bench mark to qualify as elite.
To me hes an average player with one or two good attributes along with some pretty poor ones.

He is classified "elite" as a Mid/Fwd, if he was either of those 2 alone he'd be above ave/ave but as a mix of both he's among the top 10-15% (i forget which it is) in the AFL.

 

[strauchy]

Jack Higgins is a best going by champion data rankings he is rated either elite or above Ave in every single stat and no player has ever aved more across Jr Careers

Balta seems to have played a lot of different positions witch makes him hard to read and compare to other players they have him listed here as a key forward but also ranking quite high for intercept marks when playing defense so I think it will be a while before the club works out his best position very similar to Rance in that regard

Colmeman Jones has a knee injury half way through the season but according to champion data he’s rated elite in disposals, score involvements, hitouts to advantage and contested disposals
Looks like the club has played “money ball” with this pick and could be on to a winner

Naish was the highest ranked player in meters gained in the under 18’s comp but he’s contested ball numbers were extremely low

Ben Miller ranked elite for uncontested possessions, goals, assists and score involvements and above Ave in disposals, contested possessions, intercept marks , hitouts to advantage and intercept marks also ranking fourth in the goal kicking test at the combine

Along with Coleman jones miller looks really promising but I’m unsure if we will see them this year just because talls tend to take a few years in the system before being played

In terms of rookies Ben Miller had good numbers across the boad playing as a small forward playing in the colts in W.A. I think he was a best available pick at that point in the rookie draft hard to place weather the club sees him as just a depth player or have plans for him in the future

And finally Derek Eggmolesse-Smith we drafted though our academy playing for Bendigo pioneers and our vfl last year has some nice numbers as a defender intercept possessions stands out

Thanks, but I meant more about how does Higgins compare to the other Draftees from 2017 (outside richmond)
eg: davies-uniacke, Dow, Brayshaw etc..