Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[whiteoak]

I'm confused, do they support him or attack him.

Fair enough.

Would you like me to re-phrase, or can you join the dots?

 

[Seadog]

Fair enough.

Would you like me to re-phrase, or can you join the dots?

Na I get ya drift. just messin

 

[fishardansin]

Ok news to hand. It appears that the substance under investigation is natural. Mushrooms grow wild and to be honest after recruiting all those WA boys it is no surprise that shrooms have gone wild at the club:



Actually some mind bending drugs might improve that "performance"

 

[Menzel 2 Murphy]

Regardless of whether Essendon are charged or not I think most people will believe they are guilty and there will always be a suspicion.

i can't wait for the 2013 draft, when the pan shot of the parents of their 1st overall pick....maybe some of the top under 18's players will tank, so they don't get drafted by Hirdy

 

[Malifice]

Maybe Malifice not so far off the mark?

Pretty much.

'Officals' cant have in their possession certain types of prohibited gear without a very good excuse why.

And for a very good reason.

Dank is clearly going with a 'chinese wall' type argument (the prohibited gear he acknowledges he was in possession of, was in connection to his role with the anti aging clinic, and not with the club). Other officals will go with the line they were not in 'possession' of the gear, just got administred it off site and away from the club.

There is another issue for Dank, and thats the question of 'trafficking' under the AFL Doping code code (he looks to be in breach of the rules against trafficking by virtue of the fact that as an official, he has clearly admitted to the supply to other people of prohibited gear - an act expressly prohibited under the AFL Doping code), unless he can establish 'geniune and legal therapeutic purposes'

Prohibited conduct under the code:

11.7 Trafficking or Attempted Trafficking in any Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method.

Trafficking means selling, giving, transporting, sending, delivering or distributing a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method (either physically or by any electronic or other means) by a Player, Official or other Person subject to the jurisdiction of an Anti-Doping Organisation to any third party; provided, however, this definition shall not include the actions of ‘bona fide’ medical personnel involving a Prohibited Substance used for genuine and legal therapeutic purposes or other acceptable justification, and shall not include actions involving Prohibited Substance which are not prohibited in Out-of-Competition Testing unless the circumstances as a whole demonstrate such Prohibited Substance are not intended for genuine and legal therapeutic purposes.

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/2010_Anti-Doping_Code_1.pdf

I reckon he threw himself under a bus with his intervew.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Regardless of whether Essendon are charged or not I think most people will believe they are guilty and there will always be a suspicion.

It doesn't matter what you think. Either something is proven to contradict Essendon's current innocence, or the status quo remains and on goes the season. A government organization will do it's credited due diligence to determine the situation based on actual facts snd constant communication - imaginations/hallucinations based on 0% facts have no meaning to anyone capable of intelligence. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

There are always going to be the dropkicks looking to suck the blood from Essendon by any baseless means possible and clutch on straws whilst doing it, simply because it's Essendon. This isn't new.

Whether you want to be a troll on BigFooty or not, none of this matters in real life.

 

[matwt73]

Someday, way in the future, when i sit by the skype-fire and tell the story of this epic thread to my grand kids.

I will tell them how Lance Uppercut, and fishardansin defended their club with wit, good grace, and no small degree of mental and linguistic dexterity.

"And manwithnoname?" They will ask

"ahh, not so much" I will say

 

[ManWithNoName]

Someday, way in the future, when i sit by the skype-fire and tell the story of this epic thread to my grand kids.

I will tell them how Lance Uppercut, and fishardansin defended their club with wit, good grace, and no small degree of mental and linguistic dexterity.

"And manwithnoname?" They will ask

"ahh, not so much" I will say

Oh dear. However will I cope.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Must be hard carrying as much bitterness as you do.

It must be nice to be the rich kid that continually gets to walk between the raindrops and never be held accountable for your actions.

This cover up job is blatantly obvious to anyone possessing 3 functional brain cells. Your club has a looooooong history of manipulating the system for it'as own benefit and to the detriment of the competition.

If Essendon gets to finesse themselves out of this one then the competition will be reduced to a unmitigated farce. We all have eyes and saw what "vitamins" did over the course of 12 months. We all have ears and know when we are being force fed inconsistencies, lies and less than the full truth.

This will continue to have a foul stench long after this cultivated PR exercise has played its role.

1) Who authorised the medical consent forms?

2) Were the coaches who received WADA banned substances required to sign a consent form?

3) Did Dank administer these substances to the coaches?

4) Did the coaches or someone else administer these substances to players?

5) What was in the subcutaneous injections?

6) Where are the 2012 blood records and are they all available?

​

Dank was sacked after Dons club doctor Bruce Reid became alarmed and questioned Dank’s methods to senior Essendon officials during last year.​

​

http://boundforglorynews.com/bombers-alleged-drug-scandal-escalates/​

​

​

​

7) What were these "alarming methods" if Dank had only administered vitamin B & C injections?

8) Were these "senior Essendon officials" the same ones that Dank gave WADA banned substances?

​

The scandal alleges that Stephen Dank, former NRL Manly Sea Eagles physiologist, took Essendon players to off-site injection rooms, alleged to be adjacent to Windy Hill, and a registered nurse was paid in excess of $10,000 to perform unsanctioned injections. The nature of what substances involved is still not apparent.​

​

http://boundforglorynews.com/bombers-alleged-drug-scandal-escalates/​

​

​

9) Why was "a registered nurse paid in excess of $10,000 to perform unsanctioned injections?"

10) What was contained in these "unsanctioned injections?"

11) Will Dank allow himself to be interviewed by other networks?

 

[Smokin]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/police-cold-on-acc-doping-claims/story-e6frg7mf-1226576594947

ACC chief executive John Lawler, under pressure to defend his agency's handling of last week's sensational report warning crime gangs were infiltrating the major professional sports, said the operation had largely gathered intelligence rather than evidence and was not intended to result in arrests. "The purpose of such an operation is not to make arrests," Mr Lawler told Senate estimates yesterday. "The purpose is to understand the threat, risk and vulnerabilities."

THERE are no active criminal investigations into allegations raised by the Australian Crime Commission's year-long examination of organised crime and drugs in sport despite state-based police having been aware of its findings for the past five months.

The Australian understands no current Essendon player was examined by the ACC despite the AFL club being the subject of serious doping allegations.

The more you read, you more it seems this is all hot air, and Essendon has been found perhaps guilty by association - association to a guy who has never been found guilty of anything either - ever.

Not sure this smoking gun proof actually exists, the stuff many of you are hoping is just going to appear.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Someday, way in the future, when i sit by the skype-fire and tell the story of this epic thread to my grand kids.

I will tell them how Lance Uppercut, and fishardansin defended their club with wit, good grace, and no small degree of mental and linguistic dexterity.

"And manwithnoname?" They will ask

"ahh, not so much" I will say

Although, sometime in the future I'll be able to tell me grandchildren about all the opposition supporters that disused this issue rationally and sensibly.

Won't take long.

 

[Summer Nights]

My big fear is that without testing of the frozen samples to clear the club, the doubt will always remain and the mud will stick. If that happens, my pride in the club will be vulnerable and I don't know what from there.

Very scary place to be at the moment.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Remember those earlier posts that the ACC are a bunch of arse clowns?



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/police-cold-on-acc-doping-claims/story-e6frg7mf-1226576594947

the operation had largely gathered intelligence rather than evidence and was not intended to result in arrests. "The purpose of such an operation is not to make arrests," Mr Lawler told Senate estimates yesterday. "The purpose is to understand the threat, risk and vulnerabilities."...

In other words they have purposely and deliberately pulled up short on the matter.

The farce continues.

Who is pulling the strings?

This stinks to high heaven!

Now this all falls back in the lap of the AFL to spoon feed us some more crap.

 

[AstroboyUK]

One of the early reports said that the Government hadnt been prepared to announce its report for another month, apparently had to go sooner because of the Essendon announcement. So we got a vaguely worded report with almost no substance and no action possible in any case because its only intel, and no actual evidence at this stage because the Bombers spooked the Feds. This announcement should never have been made.

The AFL has already said that it believes ALL clubs are vulnerable to illicit drugs, and I wouldnt be surprised if there was no public announcement ever on the matter. Its such a ridiculous thing to say in the first place. Hell pretty much all young people are somewhat vulnerable to drugs, not to mention the arguably larger threat of alcohol, and footballers are generally young people.

I think the big problem is the performance enhancing drugs they think have infiltrated elite sport don't have tests for them. On top of this the ACC don't do drug tests, that is the role of ASADA. So their investigation is centred around reciepts, phone taps, witness statements etc rather than drug tests. I guess it takes time for ASADA and the police to compile enough evidence to charge someone with trafficing PED's or taking PED's especially if no valid test is readily available. They have stated that there is a facility in Cologne in Germany that can test for the presence of these peptides that they are talking about, but who knows how long that will take. This whole issue is a lot more complicated than it appears. It even looks like a possibility that the peptides that the Bombers took (if they indeed took anything) could be so new that WADA have not even classified them as performance enhancing or not! Who knows what will happen if that's the case! But I definitely agree that the ACC jumped the gun and the song and dance was unnecessary.

Wookie - the Press conference timing seems odd, because according to other timelines the AFL had the report infor for about a week before the Essendon announcement: though if that wasnt the case, its still hard to imagine the big boys at the ACC being 'spooked' by anyone: its not a public relations issue for them: given the wide ranging nature of the issues (match fixing, betting, drugs) which element would have spooked them? The match fixing rumours in NRL had been around for a year too without 'spooking' them.

Matty - just personally to me then, what you say leads me to really believe the Government/ACC/ASADA press conference, with all the heads of the majore leagues dragged kicking and screaming to it behind the scenes, has more and more of the appearance of a huge beat up by them, that has unfairly damaged the reputations of busiensses, clubs, individuals within the industry - who either have nothing to do with the issues, or if are the implied-accussed or accused have been utterly denied natural justice. The guilty shoudl be punnished but really it seems its all way to premature for any kind of judgements by anyone. Could these bodies really have been so reckless? Why isnt the press asking the same questions?

 

[ziad]

One of the early reports said that the Government hadnt been prepared to announce its report for another month, apparently had to go sooner because of the Essendon announcement. So we got a vaguely worded report with almost no substance and no action possible in any case because its only intel, and no actual evidence at this stage because the Bombers spooked the Feds. This announcement should never have been made.

The AFL has already said that it believes ALL clubs are vulnerable to illicit drugs, and I wouldnt be surprised if there was no public announcement ever on the matter. Its such a ridiculous thing to say in the first place. Hell pretty much all young people are somewhat vulnerable to drugs, not to mention the arguably larger threat of alcohol, and footballers are generally young people.

News in Sydney this morning is that the police have had the ACC report for six months and are not considering any charges.
You have to wonder if this will end up a major stuff up with a few minor casualties.

Isn't the dope testers role to find an charge players, not to write wide superficial reports. Systemic issues can and should be treated separately. But why has every individual, suspected, player been covered in one report -with no names??

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Essendon has lead the AFL, which leads Australian sport in engaging the community,

Yes, Kevin Sheedy and Essendon invented indigenous football. We know this.

funding itself

Destroying the Essendon Association club via political manipulation, stealing their home ground, and then utilising political influence to re-route a tram route directly to the ground out of the public coffers?

and standing up for important community issues.

The only thing Essendon stands up for is Essendon.

 

[GuzzLG]

In other words they have purposely and deliberately pulled up short on the matter.

The farce continues.

Who is pulling the strings?

This stinks to high heaven!

Now this all falls back in the lap of the AFL to spoon feed us some more crap.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Yeah Guzz, it's all just an "accident"

 

[AstroboyUK]

News in Sydney this morning is that the police have had the ACC report for six months and are not considering any charges.
You have to wonder if this will end up a major stuff up with a few minor casualties.

Isn't the dope testers role to find an charge players, not to write wide superficial reports. Systemic issues can and should be treated separately. But why has every individual, suspected, player been covered in one report -with no names??

The implication is not very flattering for one or all of the Govt/ACC/ASDA (lets call them "GOACDA"): who was the engine behind the press conference? Who decided to "go nuclear on their asses". ?

Put it this way: if the civil aviation authoriy came out with a big, huge press announcement that several airlines were flying planes totally unsafe, that many pilots accross many airlines were definately flying on cocaine (and in one yet to be named airline (p17 of their report) , it was systematically 80% of their pilots) and several travel agents were bribing airlines to rig sales - but then didnt name specifics - it would ruin the industry overnight. If it then transpired a week later that there is only 'information' that some airlines are 'vulnerable' to these kinds of things and yes 2 pilots were drunk last year.. you would think the airline industry would be thinking about legal action for damages.

The spot light is frimly back on GOACDA if you ask me: and for the moment at least, they are the ones who need to answer some questions.

 

[The_Wookie]

Wookie - the Press conference timing seems odd, because according to other timelines the AFL had the report infor for about a week before the Essendon announcement: though if that wasnt the case, its still hard to imagine the big boys at the ACC being 'spooked' by anyone: its not a public relations issue for them: given the wide ranging nature of the issues (match fixing, betting, drugs) which element would have spooked them? The match fixing rumours in NRL had been around for a year too without 'spooking' them.

Matty - just personally to me then, what you say leads me to really believe the Government/ACC/ASADA press conference, with all the heads of the majore leagues dragged kicking and screaming to it behind the scenes, has more and more of the appearance of a huge beat up by them, that has unfairly damaged the reputations of busiensses, clubs, individuals within the industry - who either have nothing to do with the issues, or if are the implied-accussed or accused have been utterly denied natural justice. The guilty shoudl be punnished but really it seems its all way to premature for any kind of judgements by anyone. Could these bodies really have been so reckless? Why isnt the press asking the same questions?

For all the talk of it having the powers of a standing royal commission, it has little actual power in this instance. In any case, I dont think it was the ACC that blinked, I think it was the Federal Government. If they'd launched in a month or so, the Essendon issue might have already been dealt with and put to bed by the AFL without the media witchhunt we have now across two codes,and without the opportunity to have a dig at "a club where players may have been systematically doped by officials" the impact of the report comes down to individuals, and the possibility that some clubs are vulnerable to illicit drugs.

I think the Government saw an opportunity to put the boot into the big sports in the country. I await a similar report into the Arts community for example which would have people fleeing the country in droves I imagine.

 

[AstroboyUK]

If they'd launched in a month or so, the Essendon issue might have already been dealt with and put to bed by the AFL without the media witchhunt we have now across two codes,and without the opportunity to have a dig at "a club where players may have been systematically doped by officials" the impact of the report comes down to individuals, and the possibility that some clubs are vulnerable to illicit drugs.

I think the Government saw an opportunity to put the boot into the big sports in the country. I await a similar report into the Arts community for example which would have people fleeing the country in droves I imagine.

gold.

 

[GuzzLG]

Yeah Guzz, it's all just an "accident"

Nah, the string pullers who are covering up our systematic doping in 2012 and allowing for our systematic doping to continue indefinitely into the future just happened to be asleep at the wheel the last few weeks to prevent this whole shit storm from starting in the first place.

 

[Fletched]

Yes, Kevin Sheedy and Essendon invented indigenous football. We know this.



Destroying the Essendon Association club via political manipulation, stealing their home ground, and then utilising political influence to re-route a tram route directly to the ground out of the public coffers?



The only thing Essendon stands up for is Essendon.

Without clubs like essendon the AFL wouldn't have the money to keep clubs like north alive

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Without clubs like essendon the AFL wouldn't have the money to keep clubs like north alive

Essendon and arrogance. They go together like peaches and cream.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...-fans-are-gutless.989460/page-2#post-27097801

 

[Ron The Bear]

The more you read, you more it seems this is all hot air, and Essendon has been found perhaps guilty by association - association to a guy who has never been found guilty of anything either - ever.

Not sure this smoking gun proof actually exists, the stuff many of you are hoping is just going to appear.

It's not hot air at all. Yes, Hird & co. may have been telling the truth in a very narrow sense in claiming they had complied with the WADA code. But if they were using non-certified medication - essentially experimenting on the players, which would explain the waivers - I don't think they can possibly hope to ride this out.