List Mgmt. Aisho Going Elsewhere

[Baltimore Jack]

I think if Brisbane let Aish slip into the PSD the AFL would surely take this into consideration for future Priority Pick requests.

Why the PSD, why not the ND?

 

[Unknown Identity]

View attachment 183508

Not much between them, straight swap sounds about right

Oxley's numbers are better and he's played less games!

Ox can play we just have an over supply of half backs.

 

[Apex36]

Oxley's numbers are better and he's played less games!

Ox can play we just have an over supply of half backs.

Which is what Lions supporters don't seem to get. They bitch and moan that we all want to cast him off, yet the only reason his name comes up is because we have a surplus of players in his position. Kid can play, he will play 20+ games with the Lions next year if they grab him.

 

[4#Didak#4]

1) I think all things considered, pick 17 for Redden is a fair deal. He's a solid B grader (albeit several years ago we had incredibly high hopes for him). I think his football has stagnated, a change of scenery will be good for him. Pick 17 helps us manipulate things more with academy players (effectively with 20% on academy players it ends up being ~pick 12).

2) I'll contend now, that likely, Aish did want to leave. But surely you can see our point of view in that, how could a club want to build any form of culture, if we let our top draft pick from the season before, whom performed at a very good level, leave the club. Look at it from this perspective, you definitely wouldn't have gotten crisp had the deal been Aish and 25 (sliding doors and all that).

3) Let's be clear, at some stage Brisbane will trade Aish. It's a bit simple judging brisbane on a statement made before trade week (we could have made a 5pm friday deadline.....we all know how reliable they are ). It's posturing to get a better deal from the AFL in regards helping retain our talent. The rest of the league almost literally look at the Lions as a nursery for talent that can be pilfered in 2 seasons time. WE can't keep bleeding top draft picks and expect to become competitive. A deal for Aish will be done, be patient, it'll go to mediation as that serves our purpose (i.e. highlighting that something needs to be done about the number of 1st round draftees that have left).

4) I disagree that if Aish had nominated Melbourne as a city that it reduces our bargaining power. 9 clubs in fact. You're dreaming if you think that other clubs wouldn't have come into play had Aish not just nominated you. Even in your Carlton example, you aren't taking into account that they have a player that wants to get to brissy. I'm sure Bell and a second rounder for aish could have been worked out.

5) As I've said before, what Freeman has done severely limits your options as well (albeit the lions have been through this type of things near enough 10 times in the past 5 seasons). I don't think Freeman would get to the saints, either in the draft or PSD FWIW either,

1) I think Redden is great pick up for the Eagles and will become one of the recruits of the year. Up until this year he was playing at a high & consistent level. This year something has happened to see him become a shadow of his former self. I have a reasonable idea what that is but I don't want to speculate too much. The point being is that you have traded a guy who was comfortably in your best 5 players last year and contracted, out for a late 1st round draft pick without so much as a whimper. And if they were worried about the academy business why wouldn't you just trade the dude who is leaving anyway?

2) I did already agree that you had every right retaining Aish last year, I would have wanted us to do the same thing. The point being the writing was on the wall early and it wasn't exactly a surprise this year that he wanted to leave (unlike Redden). It just has been poorly handled by Brisbane since then when they had lots of time to organise contingencies. This leads me to think they basically are feeling annoyed that they may have missed an opportunity (keeping pick#5) last year and this is affecting decisions this year as they know there will be some fallout if they are seen taking a backward step. This however would simply be making 2 mistakes instead of one.

3) I am also suggesting not that Brisbane will actually follow through on their threats but the threats themselves are hugely counter productive and only serve to hurt the club in what they can get. If it was that easy to get AFL assistance by making a rash statement we would soon have 10 other clubs doing the same. The not trading players policy have been implemented in the past by other clubs and not worked at all - they have backfired in clubs face and its why it doesn't really happen anymore. Ironically, now after making this statement and there is no follow through Brisbane looks like more of a push over in the future - so its a lose lose situation that they put themselves in.

The problem in Brisbane is internal and culture related not location. Gold Coast has a better retention rate of young players - how is this possible (perhaps its the party drugs)? At the end of the day I think Brisbane has the wrong people running the club and I am going start by pointing a finger at Greg Swann. He is not the guy for the job, his record at Carlton is equally disasterous. Brisbane is never going to move forward until it provides a place where people want to play, they have done it before and they can do it again, but they have to stop blaming the outside world.

4) I didn't say that Aish should nominate a city, its his right to nominate any club he likes. I said Brisbane's counter to that should have been to say we will trade you to a Melbourne club - this takes a lot of player leverage away and is always a problem for Melbourne clubs trying to lure players. Instead Brisbane's counter was "we will trade you to no one smart ass". This simply narrows your potential trade partners from 9 to 2 with the second in Carlton able to sit back and not really put anything up because its in their interest that any trade fails. In the Carlton example why would Carlton offer Bell & a second rounder when they can get him for nothing? In fact by offering that it just encourages us to offer something better and less likely they get him.

5) For sure options are limited on Freeman but we will get something out of it and not entertain sending him to the drafts as that would just be stupid thing to do. He could get to the Saints via the PSD quite easily, but I really don't care where he goes as long as we get something useful in return.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Which is what Lions supporters don't seem to get. They bitch and moan that we all want to cast him off, yet the only reason his name comes up is because we have a surplus of players in his position. Kid can play, he will play 20+ games with the Lions next year if they grab him.

It's a strange phenomenon with supporters and trades. You must give up someone you want to keep for the trade to be fair and equitable. If we said hands off Ox they would be all over him.

Look how Crisp turned out, steak knives turned out to be the Wagyu Steak.

 

[76woodenspooners]

View attachment 183508

Not much between them, straight swap sounds about right

That draft position isn't right.

He was pick 35 in the rookie draft

 

[rand corp]

Ox is a mighty fine reader of the play and an elite disposer, just a bit slow/one paced and gets knocked off the contest a bit easily.

 

[ClaytonM]

Once he plays 100+ games and is a loyal servant, I'm sure the club will look after him.

Seriously stop and think how ridiculous that statement is. How can he ever be a loyal servant when he is held against his will. Loyalty is earned not given as a right.

These kids are not slaves. He did not choose you. He owes you nothing in the same way Freeman owes us nothing. They have seen out their contracts and should not be bought and sold exclusively at the whim of their owner. This is not the 18th century.

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

I draw your attention to the interviews gone by both Adelaide and Geelong yesterday once the Dangerfield deal went through. Both camps almost went out of their way to acknowledge the interests on the player and opposition team that whilst the deal was always going to be seen as a win-lose situation in some quarters, both clubs negotiated in good faith to get a compromise deals so that all parties could move on.

This directly from The Age's Michael Gleeson:

"Geelong smelt the breeze and realised their hope of securing Dangerfield for nothing as a free agent was an ambit hope that was not going to fly. They moved on quickly from that – as the smarter clubs do – and set about working the best trade they could. What they gave up was neither niggardly nor extravagant.

Adelaide understood whatever they were getting was vastly superior to free agency compensation and did not dig in for an unrealistic trade. They knew that a club cannot make an uncontracted player stay – Brisbane presently argues otherwise – so once Dangerfield was out the door they worked for the best deal they could and they got it."

Meanwhile in Brisbane, Nero (Leigh Matthews) fiddles whilst Rome (Brisbane FC) burns........

Reposted to The Collingwood Blog

 

[NT.Thunder]

Regarding Ox. I'm a big fan but he's at a point in his career which is critical for him to continue playing at AFL level and make a career of it. I think once you reach Ox's level now, it would be very easy to stagnate and possibly fall out of the system quickly if you don't continue to get games at this level.

If we have said that guys like Sharenberg are more likely to get games meaning Ox is playing VFL or an injury replacement only, he needs to look for opportunity elsewhere and we should understand that as a club and supporter base.

It's very hard I think to keep AFL quality kids at clubs if you can't guarantee them games and they do present viable trade options. Seedsman and Kennedy are the same.

I take it we have made a decision that Blair is also best 22 and we will persist with him and hope he re-captures some earlier form.

 

[Collingwoodity]

The Brisbane fans lunatics on the mainboard Aish thread are deluded.

Whilst Gold Coast's culture might not be perfect, why is there not a mass exudos from Gold Coast like there is at Brisbane?

Something must be very wrong with the club culture at Brisbane for so many wanting to leave year upon year.

Making this "stand" will do nothing but harm the Brisbane club in the long run.

 

[PicaBoo]

Trade radio: Aish late teens or early twenty. Won't be long before reality sinks in with the Bears

 

[NT.Thunder]

Trade radio: Aish late teens or early twenty. Won't be long before reality sinks in with the Bears

That's what I thought would be pretty close, would be happy to pay a little more noting the tanty Brisbane are pulling but not much.

 

[Subprime]

No rush on Aish, relying on Hine to outstare them

 

[Stoods]

I just called up trade radio
Said i think its steep for brisbane to be asking for a 1st rounder considering they gave up redden for pick 17.

They agreed and said he isnt worth a 1st rounder despite being a 1st round pick himself

 

[PicaBoo]

That was you?. Just quoted from that section. Lol thanks for calling in.

 

[Stoods]

That was you?. Just quoted from that section. Lol thanks for calling in.

Haha yup it was

 

[donnie5]

Howe for Kennedy would be really good business. Howe would be awesome for us!

 

[jjsmitty8]

I just called up trade radio
Said i think its steep for brisbane to be asking for a 1st rounder considering they gave up redden for pick 17.

They agreed and said he isnt worth a 1st rounder despite being a 1st round pick himself

hahaha heard you speaking! Spot on I thought.

 

[GoalSneak07]

I just called up trade radio
Said i think its steep for brisbane to be asking for a 1st rounder considering they gave up redden for pick 17.

They agreed and said he isnt worth a 1st rounder despite being a 1st round pick himself

Good job mate. My father and I are listening to Trade Radio whilst working in our workshop and we agreed with ya

Pick 26 sounds about fair whilst 24 and Saad for Freeman!

 

[Visions]

Fine. He goes to Carlton. The 3 stooges at Collingwood can go whinge all they like to the media how they've been unfairly treated. We've got picks 2, 17, 21 and will get 2 young highly rated kids from QLD. Do we really need another mid 20s pick?

1. I can't understand why everyone will think he will go to Carlton? He will nominate for the National draft and get picked up there, maybe even by Collingwood. Surely Brisbane aren't as stupid as the fans who spruik this and realise it.

2. Out of those 5 kids you pick up using the above, 2 or even 3 might actually stay there for the long haul at your club going on history. Winning!

 

[BPikkers]

The Brisbane fans lunatics on the mainboard Aish thread are deluded.

Whilst Gold Coast's culture might not be perfect, why is there not a mass exudos from Gold Coast like there is at Brisbane?

Something must be very wrong with the club culture at Brisbane for so many wanting to leave year upon year.

Making this "stand" will do nothing but harm the Brisbane club in the long run.

I'm banned from that board, but what about the st kilda knob? If Freeman isn't anywhere near Aish's league than why are they paying him a guaranteed $300kpa? Would they have offered the same if Freeman was pick 35 in the draft without playing a game? They also go on about Redden being at his maximum potential and Aish has another 3 yrs of development to go and so is more valuable than pick 17. Well what does that make Freeman? He has more development to go than Aish so is he worth more?

Idiots

 

[Baltimore Jack]

1. I can't understand why everyone will think he will go to Carlton? He will nominate for the National draft and get picked up there, maybe even by Collingwood. Surely Brisbane aren't as stupid as the fans who spruik this and realise it.

Its because all the spud "expert" commentators believe his only avenue is via the PSD.
Not one of them has acknowledged (probably because they are too thick) he can go via the ND

 

[Collingwoodity]

I'm banned from that board, but what about the st kilda knob? If Freeman isn't anywhere near Aish's league than why are they paying him a guaranteed $300kpa? Would they have offered the same if Freeman was pick 35 in the draft without playing a game? They also go on about Redden being at his maximum potential and Aish has another 3 yrs of development to go and so is more valuable than pick 17. Well what does that make Freeman? He has more development to go than Aish so is he worth more?

Idiots

FYI

Anyone comparing Aish to Freeman has no business posting on a football forum.

Pointing out someone's ill logic isn't trolling.

Aish finished 4th in the rising star in one of the most talented fields in its history.

Freeman has played 4 games of reserves in 2 full seasons.

I would deride your comparison further but I would risk my post being deleted again, though your comparison deserves more scathing derision.

Take your black & white tinted glasses off.

Dunross' steps to derail legitimate discussion:

1. Insert Buckley into discussion to troll
2. Read reply
3. Get upset
4. Post derisive insults
5. Get post deleted
6. Get more upset
7. Post less derisive insult whilst conveniently removing Buckley from discussion
8. Get more upset

The guy has lost it.

PS I will be banned soon too.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's a strange phenomenon with supporters and trades. You must give up someone you want to keep for the trade to be fair and equitable. If we said hands off Ox they would be all over him.

It is strange ... but I get it.

Supporters carry their competitive and tribal spirit into the trade period. Each trade scenario is a competition to determine a "winner" and a "loser".

It shouldn't be like that.

When you go to the fish 'n chip shop to buy your steamed dim sims - is it a battle of wits between you and the owner about who can screw over whom? Or do you walk out the shop happy with your steamed dim sims, and the owner happy with the sale?

Look at Adelaide and Geelong yesterday - they were exclaiming how much of a pleasure it was to do business with each other.

That's what **trading** is all about - both parties walking away from the trade happy with what they got out of it.

Consider the Aish nonsense - fair chance that the way that is playing out might have something to do with our behavior during the Beams deal coming back to bite us.