Alien/UFO Aliens

[blaze036]

Nope. Do you know that their technology would be limited in that way though?

Not for certain, but I think on the balance of probability it is certainly more likely they are bound by the same laws of physics we are rather than being so advanced they can do things we couldn't even dream of.

 

[Catfish Alley]

I think physics is a relatively new science with a lot more to discover. As I said, who knows? They could even be from this planet but from another dimension.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Sorry gents if this has been posted/discussed but this is quite intriguing...

 

[chargers 09]

That is not necessarily true. Life has been found on Earth in environments they didn't think possible. It hasn't been found yet but there are many theories on life forms built from other elements besides carbon. Our best guess is a planet would need Earth like conditions because that is all we know. Life could exist elsewhere though.

Similar to those fish in the Mariana's Trench (I think), who breathed methane gas leaking from the ocean floor rather than oxygen.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

This is what I think. It's conceited to imagine them like us, because we only know us. I mean what's to say they exist on a gas that would be impossible for us to sense or acknowledge in any way? Maybe it's an intra-dimensional thing and they can float on it or something? Who knows.

They might even look like a colour out of space. Or squid monsters that would turn a human batshit crazy just by looking at them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Puma Panku is a bunch of sandstone rocks they were easily crafted by ancient workers and does not at all suggest alien intervention. If aliens traveled millions of light years to get here with technology beyond our recognition why would they spend their time sculpting some rocks .

Several myths are debunked here - http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/puma-punku/ and rock-solid explanations about how it was done without alien help are also there, dismissing that case.

Nazca lines it is a similar story. To suggest amazing feats of engineering in the past is evidence of alien intervention is slightly ridiculous imo. Just because most people in those times were stupid doesn't mean there weren't brilliant people who dedicated their life to mastering engineering before their time, and were able to create things that were truly impressive.

Does extremely impressive engineering prove aliens have visited us? Absolutely not. We even know how all these ancient structures were made and we know how very possible they were with ancient tools and many years hard labor.

The thing that baffles me the most is if super advanced aliens who can travel to earth visited us, would they really go to a west african tribe and give them a few useless pieces of astronomy knowledge? Would they really build a bunch of stones then leave?

There's a lot more to it than just sculpting some rocks, and to judge what they may have passed on as useless pieces of astronomy knowledge is strange considering the time at which it was passed on.
In the western world hundreds of years later we were murdering people for daring to suggest that the sun was a star, and we revolved around it.

We also don't know what another group of beings would consider to be our capability at the time. Perhaps creating stone temples was considered a basic enough showing of how intelligent they were to a bunch of tribesman they thought could achieve little themselves.
Maybe they just wanted to leave their mark while imparting some basic knowledge of maths?

If I go to a grade 3 science class and show them what sugar does in a Bunsen burner when heat is applied, are they not amazed?

Then there's the feats of engineering, the mathematics, and then the period of nothing for hundreds of years(it's the same story in many different regions of the world).
It's ok to say that there could've been some intelligent people at the time who made advances in engineering, but the problem with that scenario is that their knowledge seems to have died with them and not passed down like farming, hunting, etc.

Why weren't these structures continually made?

 

[blaze036]

There's a lot more to it than just sculpting some rocks, and to judge what they may have passed on as useless pieces of astronomy knowledge is strange considering the time at which it was passed on.
In the western world hundreds of years later we were murdering people for daring to suggest that the sun was a star, and we revolved around it.

We also don't know what another group of beings would consider to be our capability at the time. Perhaps creating stone temples was considered a basic enough showing of how intelligent they were to a bunch of tribesman they thought could achieve little themselves.
Maybe they just wanted to leave their mark while imparting some basic knowledge of maths?

If I go to a grade 3 science class and show them what sugar does in a Bunsen burner when heat is applied, are they not amazed?

Then there's the feats of engineering, the mathematics, and then the period of nothing for hundreds of years(it's the same story in many different regions of the world).
It's ok to say that there could've been some intelligent people at the time who made advances in engineering, but the problem with that scenario is that their knowledge seems to have died with them and not passed down like farming, hunting, etc.

Why weren't these structures continually made?

The point still remains to use advanced engineering at certain points in history as evidence of alien intervention is truly bizarre and fails all logical thinking imo.

I will keep believing we haven't met ET life until there is some decent proof and not just the notorious "eye-witness account" or "wow that stone is sculpted well, aliens !!"

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Certainly do believe. I want answers in my lifetime though

 

[Chameleon75]

The thing about this, that always comes to my mind, is why have they then stopped?

I can't help but think that the calls of "this ancient tribe/civilisation couldn't possibly have built this, must be aliens" is incredibly ethno(and time)centric - Basically a big 'heck you' to the achievements of the past, because we're so arrogant in our superiority that we can't possibly believe that ancient groups were able to produce things that we can't now understand

fractal geometry being an example

 

[Chameleon75]

Nope. Do you know that their technology would be limited in that way though?

laws of physics are universal

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The main issue I have with these kinds of explanations is that we end up regressing to ideas and notions that are even more ridiculous than what we're actually trying to reason about in the first place. I know this was just a random idea out of nowhere and I'm not intending to offend here, but the idea of a "Universal Zoo" to explain UFO sightings is quite silly. My intention here isn't to deride that concept, as, for all we know, it could be true. My problem is simply with the logic that presents itself here. If I were to say that I spotted a UFO, chances are most people would reel off a thousand 'reasonable explanations' before even considering the idea that, "Maybe it's an alien spaceship visiting Earth so its passengers can look out at us humans like a zoo." I may be appealing to Ockham's Razor here, but the fact is that that notion is wildly ridiculous when you compare it to the other options. If it was such a vivid sighting (and very, very, very few of them are) that you have no explanation that's even remotely possible aside from extraterrestrials, then it's okay to suggest that they could be responsible - but when you attempt to reason about what their intentions are, you begin crossing the line into the even more ridiculous conjecture. Personally, if in order to explain one strange or odd concept you need to appeal to something even stranger, chances are there is a much more reasonable solution. In most attempts to explain these kinds of sightings, people go from the sort-of plausible to the bafflingly unreasonable in a single premise. If ideas are argued with outrageous ideas, then these outrageous ideas will be argued with even more outrageous ideas, and this will continue to go on and on for an eternity.

FWIW I don't mind speculating, and, after all, that's what the board's for - but in my opinion, whenever reasoning is forced to be applied unto these accusations of extraterrestrial involvement, it quickly regresses into a baseless, bizarre series of explanations that are forced to tiptoe on the very edge of logic. For this reason, I have trouble believing these stories of UFO sightings, crop circles and alien-built structures.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The point still remains to use advanced engineering at certain points in history as evidence of alien intervention is truly bizarre and fails all logical thinking imo.

I will keep believing we haven't met ET life until there is some decent proof and not just the notorious "eye-witness account" or "wow that stone is sculpted well, aliens !!"

That's not the point at all.

The point is that half of these structures or engineering feats are literally deemed as impossible at the time that they were constructed.

That they were built in a time when those societies who were surrounding them were worshipping "gods" from above is exactly the point.

 

[blaze036]

That's not the point at all.

The point is that half of these structures or engineering feats are literally deemed as impossible at the time that they were constructed.

That they were built in a time when those societies who were surrounding them were worshipping "gods" from above is exactly the point.

Which structure was deemed literally impossible?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Which structure was deemed literally impossible?

The first example that comes to mind is the face carving in Egypt(I can't remember or name) - similar to the sphinx.
Check out 'Revelations of the Pyramids', and I think it's about halfway through. Hodge2KOFranklin can probably help me out.

This stone carving is perfectly symmetrical, and is a work of mathematics, carved and polished to a perfection that only machines could today produce.

 

[Catfish Alley]

fractal geometry being an example

Doesn't stop them making new discoveries in the science though.

 

[Chameleon75]

Doesn't stop them making new discoveries in the science though.

Where did I imply fractural geometry impeded science?

 

[TheKanga]

How freaky would it be if aliens from other planets are also humans.

 

[TheKanga]

That is not necessarily true. Life has been found on Earth in environments they didn't think possible. It hasn't been found yet but there are many theories on life forms built from other elements besides carbon. Our best guess is a planet would need Earth like conditions because that is all we know. Life could exist elsewhere though.

Life could exist as we speak on Titan in it's methane lakes and under Europa's ice/in it's ocean.
Life can adapt and flourish in very strange places i believe.

 

[TheKanga]

First let me just preface this by saying that I think there's other life out there - not the 'cartoony humanoid' kind pop culture spits out, and probably not even in forms we understand or actively look for, but life nonetheless. However, for those who are firm believers in 'UFO sightings' being extraterrestrial, I have a question: what do they accomplish by floating in the air for a few seconds then leaving? Let's say for a moment that at least a decent amount of these UFO sightings are extraterrestrial. It's perfectly reasonable - and pretty much a necessity - to suggest that these beings are more intelligent and more technologically advanced than us, as they were able to travel to Earth and enter its atmosphere. What, then, do highly intelligent beings with unimaginable technology have to gain by spending centuries hovering over a planet for a second and then heading back home?

You make some good points, the only reason i could think of is reconnaissance.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Where did I imply fractural geometry impeded science?

Sorry, quoted the wrong thing. That was in response to you saying physic laws are universal. There is still a lot to discover in that science.

 

[Chameleon75]

Sorry, quoted the wrong thing. That was in response to you saying physic laws are universal. There is still a lot to discover in that science.

the laws of physics are universal. They are proven and established, by mathematical logic, experimentation and observation. New discoveries build upon them but are not contradictory to them.

 

[Catfish Alley]

the laws of physics are universal.

Yes, but string and wormhole theory can't be discounted.

 

[Chameleon75]

Yes but string and wormhole theory can't be discounted.

When you say string theory, I assume your talking about M theory and not cosmic strings.

I'm glad you brought this up because illustrates my point. String theory builds on relativity, not in contradiction, specifically it is a unifying theory between the special and general theories of relativity and quantam mechanics. More specifically still it deals with singularity that occured at the time of the big bang. So its dealing with specific set of circumstances and doesn't necessarily describe the universe we are in now. As it combines relativity the cosmic speed limit of the speed of light still stands. Now wormholes are interesting because they do exist, but they do so in the quantum foam, but you cannot predict when or where the occur, collapse immediately due to radiation feed back and only occur at the sub atomic level. Nevertheless Kurt Goedel theorised that you could open one up in the space time continuance , problem is it would require an infinitesimally large amount of energy, which inadvertently confirms einstein. In the end he was wrong anyway as his model of the universe required a static universe, but later it was proven that the universe was expanding, in any event he needed a fudge factor called the cosmological constant. Up shot was that einstein was again confirmed. Science fiction is largely to blame for misrepresenting wormholes due to the time lapse in space travel not fitting in with story lines.

Putting all that aside, my original point is that the laws of physics are laws because they have been proven, they exist not in mathematics but in reality. New knowledge gained don't discount these laws but build upon them.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Putting all that aside, my original point is that the laws of physics are laws because they have been proven, they exist not in mathematics but in reality. New knowledge gained don't discount these laws but build upon them.

Thanks for that. So, do you believe in aliens and that they could visit us? I remember reading Stephen Hawking believing it could happen and that it could very well play out like when Columbus met first nation Americans - not very well.

 

[Druitt Soldier]

I think when you look at the complexity and randomness of evolution the chances they look or are made similar to us is miniscule. When random evolution takes place over millions of years in different places in different conditions with almost an infinite amount of end products I think there is a 99.999% chance they would be almost totally different to us. Even on our own planet most living creatures are very different from us.





I don't think thousands of eye witness accounts over hundreds of years is anywhere even close to enough evidence to convince me we have already made contact. Eye witness accounts are interesting but barely worth the time to listen to them.

A few reasons why eye witness accounts are basically useless -

There is a strong correlation between siting of aliens and alcoholic uneducated Americans living in some hick country town. If you were to find the % of people who "saw aliens" and were at the time drunk or on drugs I think it's naive to think it wouldn't be pretty high.

Humans are also liars. The average person lies dozens of times a day and when you can lie about aliens and potentially gain fame and money why wouldn't you lie about it?

The mind is a powerful thing. We often see what we want to see, we can imagine things. If we want to see an alien spaceship really badly, and we believe we will see one, the mind will create one. It is common when people lose a loved one that they think they saw the person recently after, this is a trick of the subconscious mind used to help with grief.

If aliens visited us, we would either all know about it or none of us would. However apparently when aliens come only a handful of folk see it . If they had the technology to get here they would have the technology to not be seen... unless they wanted to be seen, then I think they would make sure tens of millions of people saw them.

I just mean in the sense that they would probably be a humanoid sort of being. Soemthing with two arms and two legs. ears on the front of their head ears on the side. opposing thumbs. that sort of thing. thou if they are a lot more advanced than us then i guess they may have also lost the need to have any of that sort of stuff.