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All Time Bowling Attack
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Post 1975.
Hadlee and Lillee are the 2 best bowlers Ive seen.
Warne as the spinner.
Ambrose just ahead of McGrath
Then in no order
Marshall/Donald/Roberts/Garner/Holding/Akram/McDermott/Thomson/Willis/Pollock/Gillespie the list goes on.
Botham as my all rounder.
Would have liked to have seen Bruce Reid without consistent injury problems. Great bowler, not often mentioned.
Hadlee and Lillee are the 2 best bowlers Ive seen.
Warne as the spinner.
Ambrose just ahead of McGrath
Then in no order
Marshall/Donald/Roberts/Garner/Holding/Akram/McDermott/Thomson/Willis/Pollock/Gillespie the list goes on.
Botham as my all rounder.
Would have liked to have seen Bruce Reid without consistent injury problems. Great bowler, not often mentioned.
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Well the consensus is that if anyone was as quick or maybe even qiucker than Thommo then it was Frank 'Typhoon' Tyson.
I read somewhere that on his first tour to Australia in his first game in front of a huge crowd there was this extremely loud & strange noise after he bowled his first delivery & it took a second to work out that it was 30,000 people all going 'Fuuuuuuuuuuuck' at the same time.
Anyway on the subject of the best attack of all time first I have to say that I discount all players from before the 1930s because a)I don't know enough about them & b)it seems like the game was very different then.So-
Hadlee
Ambrose
Thompson
Warne
If it's just a 4 man attack then I'd have this lot, I'm not saying that they're the best 4 bowlers of all time just that together I've got every eventuality covered.
I've got Warne who I believe is probably the best spin bowler ever (I didn't even consider Murali).
Then I've got Hadlee, who I think is the best allround bowler I've ever seen, who would destroy you if there was even a hint of swing or seam movement in the conditions.
If the pitch is slow then Thommo can charge in & still hurry the batsmen as well as terrorising the tail,& if it's a quick pitch....well look out, & Ambrose will keep it tight all day long, give them nothing to drive, in fact nothing to hit full stop, & if the pitch deteriorates at all then him & Warne would have a field day.
The next in line would be Lillee, I hated leaving him out as he's probably my favourite bowler of all time but for me Hadlee just shades it a touch, that's without his batting which puts him further ahead.
The other candidates would be Lindwall, Holding, Marshall for the quick allround type of bowlers, if I needed a replacement for Ambrose(ie tall, big bounce, gives no runs away) I'd probably go for McGrath.
If I wanted another speed demon to give the other side the willies if Thommo was inured then I'd be tempted to call for Tyson or Larwood.(maybe Holding fits the bill here as well but I saw a lot of him late on in his career in England when he used to move the ball around a bit as much as blasting people out).
If I'm going to have an allrounder in there ahead of my 4 frontline bowlers then Miller (that's Keith not Colin
) would be at the front of the queue with Beefy & Imran Khan not far behind.If Warne was injured I'd probably go in with O'Reilly but if I wanted 2 spinners then I'd add a bit of variety & would probably go for Jim Laker or one of those Indian spinners from the 70s, it's take your pick time really Bedi or Chandrasekera.
Actually just ahd a look at soem records & Underwood would get in ahead of the Indians.
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Have to take Marshall and Lillee with the new ball. Tell me how many runs would be scored off those two with a new Kookaburra? Not many I would suggest.
Kapil Dev would be aqn ideal 1st change bowler, and he would also double as an all-rounder if I need him to.
Obviously go for Warney in terms of a spinner, as long as there;s no mobile phones in sight and his mother lets him play! Only kidding Shane.
5th bowler would depend largely on the conditions. If the pitch was more friendly to the quicks, then I could go for any of Garner, Holding, Pidge, Merv (if we can get him away from the lunch room), Donald, Hadlee (who could even replacve Kapil as the all rounder), Walsh, Wasim, Waqar the list is endless.
If it was a spinners track then I would consider Chuck Ker as well as Abdul Qadir, Underwood, Bedi, even MacDill if our batsmen make about 700.
Kapil Dev would be aqn ideal 1st change bowler, and he would also double as an all-rounder if I need him to.
Obviously go for Warney in terms of a spinner, as long as there;s no mobile phones in sight and his mother lets him play! Only kidding Shane.
5th bowler would depend largely on the conditions. If the pitch was more friendly to the quicks, then I could go for any of Garner, Holding, Pidge, Merv (if we can get him away from the lunch room), Donald, Hadlee (who could even replacve Kapil as the all rounder), Walsh, Wasim, Waqar the list is endless.
If it was a spinners track then I would consider Chuck Ker as well as Abdul Qadir, Underwood, Bedi, even MacDill if our batsmen make about 700.
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Hadlee was a great bowler but when you had pie chuckers like Chatfield and Snedden at the other end - someone had to take the wickets for NZ.
Hadlee's also on record as saying that Lillee was the finest bowler he'd seen - and that he modelled himself directly on Lillee.
Tough choice between McGrath and Lillee - Pigeon's record is astonishing but Lillee gets my vote because of his psyche out potential and the fact that he never seemed to lose focus when under the hammer.
Lillee was, to my mind, the archetypal quick.
Hadlee's also on record as saying that Lillee was the finest bowler he'd seen - and that he modelled himself directly on Lillee.
Tough choice between McGrath and Lillee - Pigeon's record is astonishing but Lillee gets my vote because of his psyche out potential and the fact that he never seemed to lose focus when under the hammer.
Lillee was, to my mind, the archetypal quick.
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You hear this kind of argument all the time, but for me it means little. If Hadlee wasnt good enough to get the wickets, he wouldnt have. Period.
His record speaks for itself. Whether you include him or not is another thing, I just dont think the 'someone had to take them' argument really has any credence.
But yes Lillee before McGrath, though he wouldnt be far off.
No doubt that, in time, we will figure Gillespie into these lists also...
Just a quick comment: If anyone here has included O'Reilly in their discussions, but automatically thrown out Murali because he is a "chucker", then perhaps they need to see some video's of O'Reilly's action. Let's just say it wouldn't have gotten far in this day and age.
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Actually it's funny you should say that because I had a look at the Australian leading wicket takers & his name jumped out due to his average & I was wondering why no one mentioned him.
Personally I don't know much about him, I've never seen footage of him so I couldn't put him in, just about all I know about him is that he was a left armer wasn't he?Would be interested to hear some more about him.
Best all time bowling line up
I would back the following to dismiss any team in a faster time than any other bowling lineup.
Opening bowlers: J. Garner and DK Lillee (I'm not opening the batting against them thanks!!!)
First change: Glen McGrath (what a great first change)
Second Change: Sir R. Hadlee (best seamer the world has produced)
Sinner: S. Warne (by a mile)
I would back the following to dismiss any team in a faster time than any other bowling lineup.
Opening bowlers: J. Garner and DK Lillee (I'm not opening the batting against them thanks!!!)
First change: Glen McGrath (what a great first change)
Second Change: Sir R. Hadlee (best seamer the world has produced)
Sinner: S. Warne (by a mile)
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Only from those I have seen myself.
Lillee & Thommo to open.
Joel Garner first change.
Terry Alderman to push into the wind. (We are playing in England aren't we?)
Warney picks himself as the spinner.
I don't think these guys are the 'best', but would bowl well together.
Lillee & Thommo to open.
Joel Garner first change.
Terry Alderman to push into the wind. (We are playing in England aren't we?)
Warney picks himself as the spinner.
I don't think these guys are the 'best', but would bowl well together.
Neither would Ray Lindwall IMHO. Perhaps there's no conclusive evidence, but I have never seen footage of him bowling where it doesn't look like he's chucking it.
My 5 bowlers of choice, from the last 20 years or so (in likely bowling order) :
Ambrose
McGrath
Marshall
Akram
Warne
I reckon that covers the best 5 bowlers I've seen in that time, and also the best 5 in terms of being able to bowl together and offer some variety.
Marshall and Akram were great old-ball bowlers, and could bowl 1st change as well as open. Both add a bit to the batting depth too.
Ambrose and McGrath's records speak for themselves, very frugal bowlers who restrict runs AND most importantly take wickets.
Warne has been the best spinner in the time I've been watching cricket, never rated Murali on what I've seen, regardless of dubious action.
Hadlee, Reid, Gillespie, Donald and Wayne Holdsworth all stiff to miss out. Also like Mushtaq Ahmed as a bowler, maybe it just fascinated me to see a leggie whose stock ball was the wrong'un.
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At their peak?
On those I've seen opening pair would be Roberts (single greatest intimidator ever) and Lillee. First change Marshall and Croft who could both still deliver at pace with the old ball and generate good swing.
Qadir (yea, fragile nature but imo still the best on pure ability) as the leggie. Hadlee could just about get a run as a pure all-rounder slotting into a lower orderish batting possie. Bedi or Underwood if I wanted an offie instead of a leggie.
On what I've read?
Tyson (like Dipper said, supposed to have been the equal of Thompson for pure pace) and Hall (the first of the great Windie quicks). Bill Voce (played at the highest level for 20 odd years from memory) and was Englands greatest seamer from old time accounts. Jim Laker (anyone thats taken 19 wickets in a test will do for me) and Sobers for the the freakish ability to do anything he liked, fast, seam, spin.
On those I've seen opening pair would be Roberts (single greatest intimidator ever) and Lillee. First change Marshall and Croft who could both still deliver at pace with the old ball and generate good swing.
Qadir (yea, fragile nature but imo still the best on pure ability) as the leggie. Hadlee could just about get a run as a pure all-rounder slotting into a lower orderish batting possie. Bedi or Underwood if I wanted an offie instead of a leggie.
On what I've read?
Tyson (like Dipper said, supposed to have been the equal of Thompson for pure pace) and Hall (the first of the great Windie quicks). Bill Voce (played at the highest level for 20 odd years from memory) and was Englands greatest seamer from old time accounts. Jim Laker (anyone thats taken 19 wickets in a test will do for me) and Sobers for the the freakish ability to do anything he liked, fast, seam, spin.
Jeff Thompson
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Sir Richard Hadlee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Reasons:
Thompson - Shuffling, clumsy action, then lets rip some real thunderbolts. At his peak, the most terrifying bowler in world cricket. The bowler to make most batsmen $hit their dacks.
Akram - To open the bowling with him. Arguably the greatest southpaw to ever play the game. A killer inswinging yorker. Lethal with the new ball, or later in the innings with reverse swing.
Ambrose - Picked ahead of Courtney Walsh for his pure destructiveness. Could tear the heart out of a batting order, and never give a batsman a break.
Hadlee - in a word: Sublime. Could make the ball dance every which way, and was widely acknowledged as a master of his craft.
Muralitharan - Can scythe through some of the best batting the world has to offer. I'm acknowledging that he's great, and I'm not blinkered enough to call him a chucker, that's just a sad feature of tall poppy syndrome.
Wasim Akram
Curtley Ambrose
Sir Richard Hadlee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Reasons:
Thompson - Shuffling, clumsy action, then lets rip some real thunderbolts. At his peak, the most terrifying bowler in world cricket. The bowler to make most batsmen $hit their dacks.
Akram - To open the bowling with him. Arguably the greatest southpaw to ever play the game. A killer inswinging yorker. Lethal with the new ball, or later in the innings with reverse swing.
Ambrose - Picked ahead of Courtney Walsh for his pure destructiveness. Could tear the heart out of a batting order, and never give a batsman a break.
Hadlee - in a word: Sublime. Could make the ball dance every which way, and was widely acknowledged as a master of his craft.
Muralitharan - Can scythe through some of the best batting the world has to offer. I'm acknowledging that he's great, and I'm not blinkered enough to call him a chucker, that's just a sad feature of tall poppy syndrome.
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Re: Best all time bowling line up
Hehe, nice typo that one!
I'd go:
1. Lillee
2. Ambrose
3. Thompson
4. Akram
5. Warne
Although my knowledge of history in the game is very limited.
Hehe, nice typo that one!
I'd go:
1. Lillee
2. Ambrose
3. Thompson
4. Akram
5. Warne
Although my knowledge of history in the game is very limited.
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From only those i've seen (last 10 years really)...
Ambrose
McGrath
Akram
Donald
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath
Akram
Donald
Warne
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4 pace bowlers and 1 spinner hey.
hmmmm
I think I will give 2 lists, one from the years that I have watched cricket, and one for all time.
1st list (My Era)
- Glenn McGrath [Impeccable line and length, very agressive bowler]
- Courtney Walsh [His massive career wickets says a great deal, and also another agressive bowler]
- Curtly Ambrose [Great on his own, even better with Walsh...also bloody scary]
- Wasim Akram [Adds variety with his left armers, swings the ball a mile and was a renowned wicket taker]
- Shane Warne [Just gets the nod over Muttiah, very close decision though. Works great when bowling with McGrath, they can really bog an innings down. Amazing thinking, great execution and proven wicket taker at his peak.]
2nd list (All-time)
- Courtney Walsh [As above...Greatest wicket taker the game has seen has to be in the team]
- Dennis Lillee [One of the all-time greatest bowlers. Fast, accurate, deadly.]
- Glenn McGrath [As above...is so consistent and should go down as one of the all time greats]
- Richard Hadlee [Definately a great of the game, destructive with the ball and from what I have heard could make bowling an art form]
- Warne or Muttiah [Both could go in, Warne is the best leggie of all time, Muttiah the best offie. Muttiah will go down in history as the greatest wicket taker which gives him an edge in the all time best bowler stakes, but Warne has such great variety and smarts also, and barring injury could have posted a large target for Muttiah to chase.]
I am obviously clouded by my personal experiences...but these would be my 2 lists.
hmmmm
I think I will give 2 lists, one from the years that I have watched cricket, and one for all time.
1st list (My Era)
- Glenn McGrath [Impeccable line and length, very agressive bowler]
- Courtney Walsh [His massive career wickets says a great deal, and also another agressive bowler]
- Curtly Ambrose [Great on his own, even better with Walsh...also bloody scary]
- Wasim Akram [Adds variety with his left armers, swings the ball a mile and was a renowned wicket taker]
- Shane Warne [Just gets the nod over Muttiah, very close decision though. Works great when bowling with McGrath, they can really bog an innings down. Amazing thinking, great execution and proven wicket taker at his peak.]
2nd list (All-time)
- Courtney Walsh [As above...Greatest wicket taker the game has seen has to be in the team]
- Dennis Lillee [One of the all-time greatest bowlers. Fast, accurate, deadly.]
- Glenn McGrath [As above...is so consistent and should go down as one of the all time greats]
- Richard Hadlee [Definately a great of the game, destructive with the ball and from what I have heard could make bowling an art form]
- Warne or Muttiah [Both could go in, Warne is the best leggie of all time, Muttiah the best offie. Muttiah will go down in history as the greatest wicket taker which gives him an edge in the all time best bowler stakes, but Warne has such great variety and smarts also, and barring injury could have posted a large target for Muttiah to chase.]
I am obviously clouded by my personal experiences...but these would be my 2 lists.
