Another Kouta article

[marcmurphy3]

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/throwing-the-book-at-him/2007/10/28/1193555532713.html?page=2

"The key thing was our skills — our skills were terrible and we all felt like we weren't doing enough skills training, enough kicking and handballing to get our skills right for game day. So our training needed to change, our game plan needed to change."

That sure explains alot and it makes me very happy to know that the players recognised this problem.

 

[bibi01]

i have watched a resonable number of carlton training sessions over the years and I can't recall 1 time when kouta stayed back after training to do some extra skills work or when he stayed out with the yonger players to do some skill work with them.

In life, like football, people have choices to make, kouta could have chosen to be a true leader, taken the initiative ad after each session he could ahve satyed back with 1 player or a group of players and work on deficiencies of the players.

there are many things kouta could have done as a leader of the club but IMO it seems he always looked for the easier option.

 

[Bluebear]

i have watched a resonable number of carlton training sessions over the years and I can't recall 1 time when kouta stayed back after training to do some extra skills work or when he stayed out with the yonger players to do some skill work with them.

In life, like football, people have choices to make, kouta could have chosen to be a true leader, taken the initiative ad after each session he could ahve satyed back with 1 player or a group of players and work on deficiencies of the players.

there are many things kouta could have done as a leader of the club but IMO it seems he always looked for the easier option.

Good point.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

i have watched a resonable number of carlton training sessions over the years and I can't recall 1 time when kouta stayed back after training to do some extra skills work or when he stayed out with the yonger players to do some skill work with them.

In life, like football, people have choices to make, kouta could have chosen to be a true leader, taken the initiative ad after each session he could ahve satyed back with 1 player or a group of players and work on deficiencies of the players.

there are many things kouta could have done as a leader of the club but IMO it seems he always looked for the easier option.

I agree with that. He doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility - and as captain he should. What i dont get is, considering how much he says he loves this club, surely he realises all these things coming out aren't doing the club any favours?

 

[as0l0]

I agree with that. He doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility - and as captain he should. What i dont get is, considering how much he says he loves this club, surely he realises all these things coming out aren't doing the club any favours?

they aren't? I sure am happier getting all this info about why i had to suffer for all those years.

 

[sosos]

they aren't? I sure am happier getting all this info about why i had to suffer for all those years.

Agree 100%.

Sick of being a mushroom.

Thanks Kouta.

 

[marcmurphy3]

they aren't? I sure am happier getting all this info about why i had to suffer for all those years.

Agree completely. I'm much happier hearing the truth then the same diplomatic answers all the time.

With regards to the people commenting on Kouta not doing extra work on skills, it should be Pagan's responsibility to make sure all the players do enough skills work. even if he had stayed back, that still leaves another 40 players who had done insufficient work on skills.

 

[bibi01]

Agree completely. I'm much happier hearing the truth then the same diplomatic answers all the time.

With regards to the people commenting on Kouta not doing extra work on skills, it should be Pagan's responsibility to make sure all the players do enough skills work. even if he had stayed back, that still leaves another 40 players who had done insufficient work on skills.

it should be pagan's responsibility and if it wasn't happening as many suggest then kouta as a leader and as captain can sit down with all the players and say, our skills suck, we as a playing group need to do someting about it.
what are we going to do?

sitting around talking about football matters was nothing new to kouta and the leadership group.

 

[Il Naso De Gastev]

The only thing Kouta has succeeded in by releasing all this dirt on Pagan, is making himself look like a right sook. So someone has been a bit tough on him, he goes and complains to the committee... great leadership Kouta. How about showing a bit of ticker and taking the criticism on the chin, learning from it and improving, instead of setting the lamentable precedent of complaining like a school kid who's been told off.

He quotes Pagan as saying that he would be more useful sitting on the bench if he didn't start jumping... never a truer word spoken.

Thank Christ 3 of the 4 in the 'leadership' group are no longer there. All their presence will do is breed contempt for authority figures around the place. With any luck they will take their sooks mentality with them.

People can blame the coach all they want, which is BS. It's all relative to the work you put in, and obviously we weren't doing the work. It's the easiest thing in the world to blame someone else for your failure. So Kouta for once stand up and be a man, and accept some responsibility.

 

[as0l0]

The only thing Kouta has succeeded in by releasing all this dirt on Pagan, is making himself look like a right sook. So someone has been a bit tough on him, he goes and complains to the committee... great leadership Kouta.

i think it is great leadership, to stand up to the boss on behalf of your team mates and also the supporters. good stuff Kouta. He really stood up and accepted the responsibility, no matter what the consequences.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

they aren't? I sure am happier getting all this info about why i had to suffer for all those years.

I cant remember a more exciting time at our club. With new coaching staff, JUDD, Hadley, plenty of young kids coming through, and PRATT, our club is a buzz. There's a genuine belief we're gonna do decent next year and push for finals. We've got rid of the bad stuff at our club (ie pagan and Mitchell) and we have a fresh start. Kouta coming out with these statements are just overshadowing all the good stuff that has happened to us recently. Him coming out and saying Stevens should be captain doesn't do any favours to the club, nor does telling everybody how unstable our club was the last few years. Instead of focusing on all the good thats happened to us lately, we're getting negative publicity from the media

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

i think it is great leadership, to stand up to the boss on behalf of your team mates and also the supporters. good stuff Kouta. He really stood up and accepted the responsibility, no matter what the consequences.

He didn't stand up to the boss. He didn't approach Pagan, he approached Smorgon and Co

 

[drusswaylander]

i have watched a resonable number of carlton training sessions over the years and I can't recall 1 time when kouta stayed back after training to do some extra skills work or when he stayed out with the yonger players to do some skill work with them.

In life, like football, people have choices to make, kouta could have chosen to be a true leader, taken the initiative ad after each session he could ahve satyed back with 1 player or a group of players and work on deficiencies of the players.

there are many things kouta could have done as a leader of the club but IMO it seems he always looked for the easier option.

Some of the things coming out in his book aren't a good look, but be fair

Kouta did a lot of extra work work with the two Irish kids and generally outside of normal training times, as just two examples of him helping out others.

I agree Kouta could have handled a number of things a bit better, but to me he always came across as someone who enjoyed helping out the younger ones

 

[Jimthegreat]

Why do we have to look into everything so much more than we have to. What Kouta said was a validation of what we all knew but had no "proof" of. Now we do. Pagan lost vitually 2 groups of players, pre and post 2004, which, in itself says something and Pagan's man-management skills. To lose so many players and having so many players come out in support of Kouta probably tells a story and gives a true insight to the the coach. I'm sure Kouta and the other players were in by far the best position to know being in the "inner sanctum" on the "receiving end".

Anyway, it's a book, you're supposed to tell all.

 

[Chezza]

i have watched a resonable number of carlton training sessions over the years and I can't recall 1 time when kouta stayed back after training to do some extra skills work or when he stayed out with the yonger players to do some skill work with them.

In life, like football, people have choices to make, kouta could have chosen to be a true leader, taken the initiative ad after each session he could ahve satyed back with 1 player or a group of players and work on deficiencies of the players.

there are many things kouta could have done as a leader of the club but IMO it seems he always looked for the easier option.

Good point.

A good point, yes..... if correct. If not correct, then just another ill-informed post. I'd suggest that most people that go to training sessions would go to the main session of the week. But do they see anything else that goes on in and around the club, in the weights room, in the smaller skills sessions that most clubs have etc etc?? I doubt it. How people can be judging/questioning Koutoufides' leadership based on his thoughts on Pagan is beyond me. It seems to me like he's speaking on behalf of the rest of his team-mates, which is a leadership quality in itself. To me he's only confirming the suspicions a lot of us had about Pagan anyway. Good on him

 

[Chezza]

i think it is great leadership, to stand up to the boss on behalf of your team mates and also the supporters. good stuff Kouta. He really stood up and accepted the responsibility, no matter what the consequences.

He didn't stand up to the boss. He didn't approach Pagan, he approached Smorgon and Co

Couldn't agree more as0l0......

And W.B.W.T.W......at the end of '06, Pagan was as far from the boss of Carlton as I am the boss of the Playboy Mansion. The board and the president are the 'boss'

Kouta, Allan, Camporeale, Lappin...... they've all just cleared up a lot of questions I've been pondering for a while.

 

[Bentick's My Man.]

The only thing Kouta has succeeded in by releasing all this dirt on Pagan, is making himself look like a right sook. So someone has been a bit tough on him, he goes and complains to the committee... great leadership Kouta. How about showing a bit of ticker and taking the criticism on the chin, learning from it and improving, instead of setting the lamentable precedent of complaining like a school kid who's been told off.

He quotes Pagan as saying that he would be more useful sitting on the bench if he didn't start jumping... never a truer word spoken.

Thank Christ 3 of the 4 in the 'leadership' group are no longer there. All their presence will do is breed contempt for authority figures around the place. With any luck they will take their sooks mentality with them.

People can blame the coach all they want, which is BS. It's all relative to the work you put in, and obviously we weren't doing the work. It's the easiest thing in the world to blame someone else for your failure. So Kouta for once stand up and be a man, and accept some responsibility.

You are a **** wit.

He actually quoted Pagan on saying he should retire if he didn't start jumping in one of his come back games in his 200th at 3/4 time of a game they were getting belted in! Pagan knew Kouta's knee deficiencies after 2 serious knee operations!
And obviously you know shit all because Pagan rang and apologised because he knew he said the wrong thing to Carlton's spiritual leader, Pagan never was Carlton and thats why he is gone.

The CFC should of acted when the WHOLE leadership group called a meeting with the committee not half a season later but oh well, what's happened has happened.

and you good Sir, are a moron..

 

[marcmurphy3]

You are a **** wit.

He actually quoted Pagan on saying he should retire if he didn't start jumping in one of his come back games in his 200th at 3/4 time of a game they were getting belted in! Pagan knew Kouta's knee deficiencies after 2 serious knee operations!
And obviously you know shit all because Pagan rang and apologised because he knew he said the wrong thing to Carlton's spiritual leader, Pagan never was Carlton and thats why he is gone.

The CFC should of acted when the WHOLE leadership group called a meeting with the committee not half a season later but oh well, what's happened has happened.

and you good Sir, are a moron..

Agreed.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Couldn't agree more as0l0......

And W.B.W.T.W......at the end of '06, Pagan was as far from the boss of Carlton as I am the boss of the Playboy Mansion. The board and the president are the 'boss'

Kouta, Allan, Camporeale, Lappin...... they've all just cleared up a lot of questions I've been pondering for a while.

The coach is the boss of the players. Hence why whenever there are board disputes (ie the takeover bid at St Kilda), the players always come out with the line "that has nothing to do with me, all i wanna do is play footy"

 

[Silvagnis]

The only thing Kouta has succeeded in by releasing all this dirt on Pagan, is making himself look like a right sook. So someone has been a bit tough on him, he goes and complains to the committee... great leadership Kouta. How about showing a bit of ticker and taking the criticism on the chin, learning from it and improving, instead of setting the lamentable precedent of complaining like a school kid who's been told off.

He quotes Pagan as saying that he would be more useful sitting on the bench if he didn't start jumping... never a truer word spoken.

Thank Christ 3 of the 4 in the 'leadership' group are no longer there. All their presence will do is breed contempt for authority figures around the place. With any luck they will take their sooks mentality with them.

People can blame the coach all they want, which is BS. It's all relative to the work you put in, and obviously we weren't doing the work. It's the easiest thing in the world to blame someone else for your failure. So Kouta for once stand up and be a man, and accept some responsibility.

Great post.

You are a **** wit.

He actually quoted Pagan on saying he should retire if he didn't start jumping in one of his come back games in his 200th at 3/4 time of a game they were getting belted in! Pagan knew Kouta's knee deficiencies after 2 serious knee operations!
And obviously you know shit all because Pagan rang and apologised because he knew he said the wrong thing to Carlton's spiritual leader, Pagan never was Carlton and thats why he is gone.

The CFC should of acted when the WHOLE leadership group called a meeting with the committee not half a season later but oh well, what's happened has happened.

and you good Sir, are a moron..

Kouta was our spiritual leader?

He showed next to no leadership as captain and is one of the worst captain's Carlton has had.

Until we got Whitnall as Captain last year.

I'm glad we're finally rid of all the players who took us to the bottom and we can finally move on without them.

When did Whitnall and Kouta play like their life depended on it in the past three seasons?

Archer and Hird were still great players to the very end in spite of the injuries they carried and dragged their sides across the line in games.

Could you imagine those two players threatening to pull out of a game for a boot contract or whining because their average possessions had gone down?

Koutoufides comes across as very spoilt when he was payed more Pagan for the past six seasons.

 

[Bluebear]

Koutoufides criticised the acute focus in recent years on the pre-season competition, which he said caused players to burn out by the season being too long.

Hmmm, so what explained 2006, where we lost early in the NAB cup but still had a bad second half of the year?

The "it wasn't our fault" blame game continues.

 

[as0l0]

The "it wasn't our fault" blame game continues.

no. i think that has ended

Ratten - ""The excuses are over, there is no doubt about it,"

 

[bibi01]

no. i think that has ended

Ratten - ""The excuses are over, there is no doubt about it,"

agree the excuses are over,

but how many more times are we going to hear ratten tell us "we will have the youngest team in the AFL"