another meaningless win?

[nut]

anyone who thinks these wins are meaningless are fools. If we had a side full of old players then yes. But we dont. The kids are building confidance and belief in each other that only comes from wins. They are getting confidance and belief in the messages from the coaching staff. Every win is important from now til the end of the season....... Momentum going into next season is what we need. A few more wins and our membership will sky rocket.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Spot on. Of course the wins are meaningless in terms of the race for the 8. We all know that and we all knew we were not in the competition in any serious way this year. However we ahve 42,000 members - more than Essendon !!!! - despite remarkably poor form.

Every win between now and season end helps build confidence and momentum for next year and I fully expect 50,000 membership sales - thousands ahead of Carlton and Essendon - for 2011 now that we are playing the numbers game like everyone else.

 

[coke_zero]

We are playing the future. Minus a few that are making up numbers. The future keeps looking better right now.

 

[nut]

We are playing the future. Minus a few that are making up numbers. The future keeps looking better right now.

We are seeing great improvement accross the list, players like Collins and White are putting their hands up and cementing spots in the 22.... this is what we need. The young fringe players is where the improvement must come from....

It's very quiet on this board right now.... the pro: tankers are awfully quiet...

 

[folester41]

the thing is we can loose games and get the lower pick and the extra picks, but the more games we win the more confident the boys become and the easier it is for players we draft to adapt to afl level. look at collingwood, they havent had a low pick in a while and have still picked out gems like sidebottom and beams and they have adjusted to afl level so easily.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Exactly guys.

Tanking achieves something if you have an old list, but we have a young list, these kids need to believe they can play at this level, the only way they can do this is by following the coaches instructions and see it pay off!!

The jumper will never hit the floor.

 

[coke_zero]

It's very quiet on this board right now.... the pro: tankers are awfully quiet...

Pick 4 and another pick in the 20's sounds very good for a rebuilding team. But it doesnt look like we will get the PP anymore. We may still get pick 4 with 5-6 wins.

 

[TheProwler]

Yes it is a meaningless win in the big picture. It was against a side that is way out of form and decimated by injury to their best palyers.

I want to see us compete with the best for an extended period and achieve the success we all desrreve but a few more wins against bottom sides really offers little hope other than we can match it with other cellar dwellers. If we can match it with Sydney next round then we may just be turning the corner, just!! No offence to the kangaas but I don't want us to have a list like theirs which will not allow them to go the next step they need to.

Our priority must not waver, development for the future and this includes getting the best draft picks available this November.

How many of you were gutted in the first nine weeks to see Melbourne & Freo finally getting some success while we struggled? I too long for that success but if we limp home to end up with half a dozen wins this year against sides from 16th to 12th then yes all the wins are then meaningless.

 

[cormick]

Wait, what? Melbourne are "getting some success", but our wins are meaningless?

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Look all Hardwick can do is continue to play the kids and let the chips fall where they may, but if it comes down to the last few games and the difference between pick 4 & 6 (which in a compromised draft , is probably an even bigger difference), it would be remiss of the coaching staff not to take the appropriate "measures" as the in denial AFL's flawed system dictates we should....remember the excitement at the end of 2008 and what followed in 2009...think of the players we could've had.... those who fail to learn from history are forever doomed to repeat it...

 

[nut]

Wait, what? Melbourne are "getting some success", but our wins are meaningless?

we are better than melb and we will prove that round 19 with another meaningless win.

 

[cormick]

we are better than melb and we will prove that round 19 with another meaningless win.

But Melbourne's tanking has brought them some success...

 

[docko911]

Well actually it's not meaningless yet.....Mathematics...always a possibility of a miracle

 

[CallMeAl]

So, Melbourne are the benchmark setters on how to achieve success?

Somehow I'd think I'd prefer to follow Geelong's example

 

[docko911]

anyone who thinks these wins are meaningless are fools. If we had a side full of old players then yes. But we dont. The kids are building confidance and belief in each other that only comes from wins. They are getting confidance and belief in the messages from the coaching staff. Every win is important from now til the end of the season....... Momentum going into next season is what we need. A few more wins and our membership will sky rocket.

This is the most overlooked statement. It's not about draft picks, it's about youth. If you play youth and then start winning and building confidence it doesn't matter what pick number is next to a players name they can still become stars.

 

[Madison]

Geelong had access to father son picks that netted them Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins.

No one else has that, so it's not really a model.

And look at the teams we have beaten, Port, West Coast and a Brisbane side missing a host of players, including their two best.

We have defs improved, but we aren't taking it up to and challenging the best like Melbourne has. If we can beat or run with the teams in the 8, I will be stoked. But unless that happens, I don't want a repeat of 2008 where we win games against bottom teams and get an inflated win loss at the expense of getting the picks we need.

 

[nut]

Geelong had access to father son picks that netted them Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins.

No one else has that, so it's not really a model.

And look at the teams we have beaten, Port, West Coast and a Brisbane side missing a host of players, including their two best.

We have defs improved, but we aren't taking it up to and challenging the best like Melbourne has. If we can beat or run with the teams in the 8, I will be stoked. But unless that happens, I don't want a repeat of 2008 where we win games against bottom teams and get an inflated win loss at the expense of getting the picks we need.

2008 we won on the backs of richo, bowden, Brown..... etc..etc... If you cant see the difference with these wins compared to 2008 then you are a twit.

 

[mcuzzy]

. If we can beat or run with the teams in the 8, I will be stoked. But unless that happens, I don't want a repeat of 2008 where we win games against bottom teams and get an inflated win loss at the expense of getting the picks we need.

I said this in a post last night and regretted it immediately.

Think of the experience we had in our squad in 08 compared to now and how far certain players have come since then, for us winning now is adding experience and giving young players the confidence, in 08, winning was just winning and trying to get 8th spot

2008 we won on the backs of richo, bowden, Brown..... etc..etc... If you cant see the difference with these wins compared to 2008 then you are a twit.

this is pretty true to a large extent.

and the way i said it was more subtle

 

[_RT_]

Yes it is a meaningless win in the big picture. It was against a side that is way out of form and decimated by injury to their best palyers.

I want to see us compete with the best for an extended period and achieve the success we all desrreve but a few more wins against bottom sides really offers little hope other than we can match it with other cellar dwellers. If we can match it with Sydney next round then we may just be turning the corner, just!! No offence to the kangaas but I don't want us to have a list like theirs which will not allow them to go the next step they need to.

Our priority must not waver, development for the future and this includes getting the best draft picks available this November.

How many of you were gutted in the first nine weeks to see Melbourne & Freo finally getting some success while we struggled? I too long for that success but if we limp home to end up with half a dozen wins this year against sides from 16th to 12th then yes all the wins are then meaningless.

Round 13 2008 Fremantle sat in 14th spot with a 2-11 record well on the way to a PP. However in the last 8 weeks of the season they had what many here would term as meaningless wins against Melbourne(16th) Port(13th), WCE(15th) & Collingwood(8th) to end the season with a 6-16 record and ended up missing a priority pick. At seasons end Harvey delisted a heap of hacks and took 14 picks in the drafts.

Fast forward 12 months and they were 3-10 after 13 rounds in line for a PP if they so desired. In the last 8 rounds they won another 3 games against Essendon(8th), Port(10th) & WCE(11th) which some would say were pretty meaningless and again they finished 6-16 and missed out on the PP. Come draft time they took another 7 kids as well as 3 older players in the PSD/Rookie drafts(McPhee, Barlow & Silvagni) after getting rid of another group of duds.

Another 12 months on and after 13 rounds they sit in 3rd spot with a 9-4 record, not bad for a side that had won 12 of the previous 44 games and went into the drafts without a single PP. Just goes to prove that you don't necessarily need a PP to turn your fortunes around.

 

[nut]

Round 13 2008 Fremantle sat in 14th spot with a 2-11 record well on the way to a PP. However in the last 8 weeks of the season they had what many here would term as meaningless wins against Melbourne(16th) Port(13th), WCE(15th) & Collingwood(8th) to end the season with a 6-16 record and ended up missing a priority pick. At seasons end Harvey delisted a heap of hacks and took 14 picks in the drafts.

Fast forward 12 months and they were 3-10 after 13 rounds in line for a PP if they so desired. In the last 8 rounds they won another 3 games against Essendon(8th), Port(10th) & WCE(11th) which some would say were pretty meaningless and again they finished 6-16 and missed out on the PP. Come draft time they took another 7 kids as well as 3 older players in the PSD/Rookie drafts(McPhee, Barlow & Silvagni) after getting rid of another group of duds.

Another 12 months on and after 13 rounds they sit in 3rd spot with a 9-4 record, not bad for a side that had won 12 of the previous 44 games and went into the drafts without a single PP. Just goes to prove that you don't necessarily need a PP to turn your fortunes around.

End Thread....

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

2008 we won on the backs of richo, bowden, Brown..... etc..etc... If you cant see the difference with these wins compared to 2008 then you are a twit.

The point is that apart from the fact it cost shots at guys like NicNat,Hill , Rich & extra high picks ....it caused us to overrate our list and where was at and overlook some glaring deficiencies and trade/recruit accordingly(eg Hislop & Thomson..though I think TV will be handy at least...once NicNat had gone,ruck with first pick at the expense of another quality mid was poorly thought out IMO)...the most important similarity between then and now remains... that we still have many issues to address and many holes to fill with our list..anyone who can't see that is quite simply delusional...

 

[SleepingGiant]

So, Melbourne are the benchmark setters on how to achieve success?

Somehow I'd think I'd prefer to follow Geelong's example

Force our x-players to breed?

 

[docko911]

The point is that apart from the fact it cost shots at guys like NicNat,Hill , Rich & extra high picks ....it caused us to overrate our list and where was at and overlook some glaring deficiencies and trade/recruit accordingly(eg Hislop & Thomson..though I think TV will be handy at least...once NicNat had gone,ruck with first pick at the expense of another quality mid was poorly thought out IMO)...the most important similarity between then and now remains... that we still have many issues to address and many holes to fill with our list..anyone who can't see that is quite simply delusional...

Im delusional we are awesome and will get awesomer with more experience the only holes left to fill are those in the hearts of supporters who have lost faith after 30 years of mediocrity.

 

[nut]

The point is that apart from the fact it cost shots at guys like NicNat,Hill , Rich & extra high picks ....it caused us to overrate our list and where was at and overlook some glaring deficiencies and trade/recruit accordingly(eg Hislop & Thomson..though I think TV will be handy at least...once NicNat had gone,ruck with first pick at the expense of another quality mid was poorly thought out IMO)...the most important similarity between then and now remains... that we still have many issues to address and many holes to fill with our list..anyone who can't see that is quite simply delusional...

2008 I wanted to tank.... I will not argue with that... but the rewards now aren't anywhere near the rewards were then. Risking the kids development to get pick 28 is not worth it....

The holes you speak off are being filled by the players we have now... they are all young and all improving every game and are earning the right to wear the jumper.

 

[CallMeAl]

Geelong had access to father son picks that netted them Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins.

No one else has that, so it's not really a model.

Are you suggesting that Geelongs success rests largely on the back of these three individuals alone and has nothing to do with such things as the way the club has been run since they had their review in 2006, the seemingly change in culture since Chapmans public ctritism of such, hard work and commitment by the players, as well as due diligence by the recruiting staff to best utilise what draft picks they got, or smart coaching and player development?

You just discount geelong as a model for how to run a successful football club because they got lucky with three father son picks over a period of ten years?

Just out of curiosity, how many of those threes would have been top 5 draft picks if not selected as father/sons.