Another SA AFL team?

[CDFCLad]

Originally posted by raboyle
Central District will not enter the AFL.

The club is just not big enough to be a viable AFL entity. They should stick to the SANFL.

No SANFL club is big enough IMO, but to say that Norwood are (as you previously stated) and we aren't is to ignore the level of financial strength the CDFC has built up. On a solely financial level (ignoring tradition or history) Centrals would be well ahead of any other SANFL option (including Norwood.)

Will never happen though......

and as a Fitzroy fan I'd like to respond to Adrian Shelton, Fitzroy does have a team in the VAFA (Fitzroy Reds, formerly University Reds who then entered into a naming rights deal with the Fitzroy FC and now play from Brunswick Street Oval, Fitzroy's traditional home ground) and did enter into a sort of joint venture with Coburg to form the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions for the 1999 season I think.

 

[Brian]

The optinum number is two well supported clubs so that there is one home game every week .I suppose you could say that the teams wouldn't be competing because they would be fixtured one Saturday and one Sunday.However I like to see the Vics squirm with the dominance of interstate clubs .The first priority is a second brisbane and Sydney team and to regain Canberra and to repay Tassie for it's involvement.

 

[footyman]

The AFL began from our old VFL competition and clubs like West Coast, Brisbane and Sydney entered the Victorian competition and played in it for a period of up to 10 years in Sydney's case. All that happened was the VFL changed it's name to AFL about ten years ago to reflect the fact that there were teams in the competition from interstate.

In hindsight perhaps you SA people should have proposed these sorts of things back in the mid to late 1980s and had a national league set up where the most powerful clubs from each state could jump ship and play in a national competition.

All you South Australian cretins talk about is cutting down Victorian clubs when you really have no idea of the historical significance of them at all. Can you imagine if Central or Sturt were told the bugger off from the SANFL? The proposals you make are essentially no different to that.

 

[timelord]

Now wait a minute, Footyman. Don't start making claims about what should have happened and blame Victoria for doing what they did just because no one else did.

The fact of the matter is everyone was out for themselves in the 1980's. Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia wanted their own slice of heaven and saw the others as the enemy. It was all political and there was NO ONE not guilty of being a straight out idiot. Sure there are some fools in Victoria - but the same is true of SA and WA. It takes two to create a problem at least - not just one.

And for the record I am NOT saying this to defend Victoria. The AFL is an expanded VFL - there is no doubt about that. And I always applauded the SANFL staying out of it until Port forced their hand for 1991.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by footyman
The AFL began from our old VFL competition and clubs like West Coast, Brisbane and Sydney entered the Victorian competition and played in it for a period of up to 10 years in Sydney's case. All that happened was the VFL changed it's name to AFL about ten years ago to reflect the fact that there were teams in the competition from interstate.

Nope. Wrong. Once the VFL expanded nationally it no longer became the Victorian league. That comes at a price, the first of which was Fitzroy. You can't have it both ways.

 

[naughty monkey]

To get back this thread back to the topic in question instead of it degenerating into a name calling exercise,

There will not be a third AFL team in SA in the foreseeable future. Neither the SANFL, or the 2 SA AFL teams would take that lying down. They would all agree that two strong clubs is better than three mediocre ones. If memory serves, then the SANFL have first option on any extra license in SA anyway. They also have an agreement with the AFL that states all AFL matches played in SA must be played at Footy Park. So, in short, the SANFL could make it very difficult to have a third team based in SA without their blessing. (My own belief is that the AFL will eventually end up as a 14 team comp run over 26 weeks).

Incidently, I don't see the biggest threat to the SANFL being a third AFL team, but rather finding new supporters. Most people that still go to SANFL will still go irrespective of how many AFL teams there are. It is my perception that a lot of the current members/supporters have been following the SANFL from pre-Crows, you only need to look at BigFooty to see that. How they (the SANFL) 'recruit' new fans (i.e kids) to become SANFL suporters as well as AFL supporters i see as being the biggest challenge. Yes, parents taking their children out to Prossie Oval will help (well maybe, Glenelg or Adelaide would be better). But will these kids have the same passion for SANFL when all their mates only want to go to the AFL???

 

[Ian Dunross]

This is a discussion that could be seriously had by say 2025?

Norwood the obvious candidate. Followed by a Glenelg-South-West merger based out of Glenelg/Southern Adelaide.

Would be nice to see a greater representation of the history of SA football by having Norwood in the AFL.

Would need a stronger economy here to support the team.

 

[Ian Dunross]

I suggest that hypothetically if Norwood entered the AFL tomorrow it would attract about 35,000 members more or less straight away. 25,000 would be genuine Norwood fans, of those, approx 5,000 would come from the Crows membership. The remaining 10,000 would be people who want to support a new club/haven't been an AFL member before. Over time, I reckon another 5,000 SANFL Norwood members would join.

Norwood might play 3-4 games on the Parade (after some redevelopment) against a GWS, St Kilda and another smaller club and the remaining 7-8 at Adelaide Oval.

I don't see the difference between having a Norwood vs having Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne or St Kilda. Each of those Vic clubs would have less members than Norwood would (comfortably IMO), each have been historically and recently less successful than Norwood and each are subsidised by the AFL.

I understand there would be resistance from AFC and PAFC.

 

[Taylor]

I don't think a SANFL club should elevate, it runs the risk of segregating itself from potential fans who carry a natural opposition to the brand. A brand new franchise can draw fans from anywhere, then again it lacks the history and heart.

 

[Ian Dunross]

I think those concerns are offset by allowing a great club in Norwood to join the other great (and those less great) clubs in the same competition. Some fans would be disillusioned. That is sad, but if they're Norwood supporters they should support the club at a higher level as well, if not, they can support the reserves team in the SANFL.

Agree on the new franchise. I don't think there's demand in SA for a new franchise. One (the Crows) is more than enough.

 

[Asgardian]

With SA's economy in such a precarious situation, closure of Holden's, I doubt we would be in a position to financially support another AFL team for at least the next 20 - 25 years.

Our population base is growing older & ability to attract young workers diminishing.

 

[PAFC forever]

I understand there would be resistance from AFC and PAFC.

I don't think that would be the case, if there was 3 SA clubs and they played each other twice all three clubs stand to make quite a lot of cash and not having to travel interstate for 2 away games a season would save a bit money in travel expenses. they would also have another big rivalry and big rivalries generate a lot of cash!

I'd love to see Norwood in the AFL but I very much doubt Adelaide could sustain a 3rd AFL club. Port V Norwood or Norwood V Adelaide would be great rivalries in the AFL. The SANFL isn't what it used to be, but Norwood still has a large supporter base and I think they could get crowds of 20,000 at Adelaide Oval against high profile interstate clubs and 40,000+ when playing Adelaide or Port Adelaide. Having up to 2 home games against the current Adelaide based clubs might be enough to sustain them in the AFL providing they get draft concessions and more importantly a stadium concession at Adelaide Oval for at least the first 5 or 6 seasons. They already have a training base at the parade and Norwood could still field a team in the SANFL as their reserves team. perhaps they could play 1 or 2 games a year at the parade against low drawing clubs like GWS or the Gold Coast to save on match day costs at Adelaide Oval. according to wiki the parade holds 22,000 but 85% of that would be standing at a guess

 

[FootyJunkie]

Adelaide City Football Club
The Blood Panthers

(combined senior club for SANFL clubs West Adelaide and South Adelaide)

 

[PAFC forever]

Adelaide City Football Club
The Blood Panthers

(combined senior club for SANFL clubs West Adelaide and South Adelaide)

South Adelaide has the lowest supporter base in the league and West Adelaide also has a small supporter base. If a 3rd SA club came into the AFL the only club that would be viable is Norwood. Nice effort on the logo though.

 

[Papa G]

It's too late for Norwood, they had their chance......... but they played it safe and now have been consigned to relative irrelevance. Their colours are a part of the Crows guernsey, so I guess they have that.

 

[Ian Dunross]

If the Crows played in the State of Origin guernsey as is happening for a one off, how would non-Crows supporters feel? Personally I love it. We're not going to see it used properly again, I would rather it was worn by the Crows than not at all, just my opinion though.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Should be the permanent strip. Battle of the southern vees when they play Port.

 

[Strangled Cat]

Wow, what a thread mine! Almost 11 years; BHP-Billiton would be proud of that effort.

The discussion from 2003 was an interesting one, and I believe that at the time Norwood still had a small shot at joining the AFL and making it work from the perspective of regaining some of their original supporter base back from the Crows. But that horse has well and truly bolted now. A whole generation of supporters have been lost on the SANFL in general, as it's been the Crows who have had - Port supporters aside - a completely captive audience to which they've been able to sell their AFL brand to.

With the Crows fielding their own reserves side in the SANFL, it will ensure once and for all that any SANFL club who still harbors aspirations to join the AFL will not be able to do so in their current state. With most of Gen-Y and all of Gen-Z having grown up with the Adelaide Crows and the AFL, of all of the kids from those generations who have an SANFL side, I dare say that quite a few of them have had their parents' generation influencing their decision on who they barrack for.

With a lot of Gen-Y now having their own young kids (myself included), unless they too were brought up on the rich history of the SANFL along with their AFL club (I'm mainly talking about Adelaide here), their likelihood of carrying the SANFL torch into the future is going to become increasingly fewer and far between over time. In fact, a lot of the kids aged currently under 10, may choose to follow the SANFL but barrack for the Adelaide Crows' reserves side instead of the SANFL club which they're local or zoned to.

I personally think that a third SA club is a long way off. It probably won't happen for another three decades, if at all. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but it may well happen a long way down the track via a method in which no one could currently conceive. Western Australia have had the same discussion for quite some time about how they too could have a viable third club based in their state at some point down the track. The general consensus has been that a non-traditional in a largely expanding region, i.e. Peel Thunder for example may be how it goes.

It's an interesting topic of discussion and will probably continue for decades until something eventually happens.

 

[sturtman]

Does it have to be another SANFL club entry to AFL level?

What about combining the Foxtel and NAB preseason comp into an World cup format challenge round with SANFL, WAFL, NEAFL and VFL clubs thrown in the mix. Crows, Power and Vic teams like Colingwood and Geelong and the like, "state league teams" excluded as they already have AFL entities and do not need to enter at both levels and could trial their second tier state players at any rate.

Format could be of four teams per group, eg 1 AFL team seeded 1, SANFL seeded 2, 1 WAFL seeded 3 and 1 NEAFL seeded 4 according to current state rankings. Top two from each group goes through to next round until final winner is decided after final round of four.

I'd like to see the lower seeded club host the match at their league venue to contribute to the coffers of the local club on a 70/30 percent gate taking split plus revenues from food and merchandise. The local club to stump up the cost of running the venue with appropriate security, ground fees and umpires etc. AFL umpires to be used in the final group stage only as the action moves to the main venues.

I could see this providing a wonderful fillet for state league clubs financially, add a lot of interest as well as a great test for the more powerful state level teams the likes of Central, Norwood. Claremont or Swan Districts....the NT Thunder could be a surprise packet here too, and we could also see a combined Tassie side.

Now that's an "AFL." in my book.

Hehehehehehe!! Norwood V the Power under lights at Coopers Stadium.....Yeh!!! I'd like to see that...I bet the sparks would fly that night....

 

[marty36]

Wow, what a thread mine! Almost 11 years; BHP-Billiton would be proud of that effort.

The discussion from 2003 was an interesting one, and I believe that at the time Norwood still had a small shot at joining the AFL and making it work from the perspective of regaining some of their original supporter base back from the Crows. But that horse has well and truly bolted now. A whole generation of supporters have been lost on the SANFL in general, as it's been the Crows who have had - Port supporters aside - a completely captive audience to which they've been able to sell their AFL brand to.

With the Crows fielding their own reserves side in the SANFL, it will ensure once and for all that any SANFL club who still harbors aspirations to join the AFL will not be able to do so in their current state. With most of Gen-Y and all of Gen-Z having grown up with the Adelaide Crows and the AFL, of all of the kids from those generations who have an SANFL side, I dare say that quite a few of them have had their parents' generation influencing their decision on who they barrack for.

With a lot of Gen-Y now having their own young kids (myself included), unless they too were brought up on the rich history of the SANFL along with their AFL club (I'm mainly talking about Adelaide here), their likelihood of carrying the SANFL torch into the future is going to become increasingly fewer and far between over time. In fact, a lot of the kids aged currently under 10, may choose to follow the SANFL but barrack for the Adelaide Crows' reserves side instead of the SANFL club which they're local or zoned to.

I personally think that a third SA club is a long way off. It probably won't happen for another three decades, if at all. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but it may well happen a long way down the track via a method in which no one could currently conceive. Western Australia have had the same discussion for quite some time about how they too could have a viable third club based in their state at some point down the track. The general consensus has been that a non-traditional in a largely expanding region, i.e. Peel Thunder for example may be how it goes.

It's an interesting topic of discussion and will probably continue for decades until something eventually happens.

Agreed, the only way for a third club from both SA and WA you would think could be considered, is if the AFL league expanded, which over time will happen. Which over the next 20-30 years is strong possibility that two confernces could be established. Maybe this is one reason the AFL is trying to retain the number of Melbourne teams with this expansion in mind.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Agreed, the only way for a third club from both SA and WA you would think could be considered, is if the AFL league expanded, which over time will happen. Which over the next 20-30 years is strong possibility that two confernces could be established. Maybe this is one reason the AFL is trying to retain the number of Melbourne teams with this expansion in mind.

When you say conference, do you envisage an NFL style conference with geographic conferences with some cross over? Is that the model the AFL would pursue in your opinion? - I am unfamiliar with American style conference systems.

 

[marty36]

When you say conference, do you envisage an NFL style conference with geographic conferences with some cross over? Is that the model the AFL would pursue in your opinion? - I am unfamiliar with American style conference systems.

Yes, it appears that the AFL have taken a lot of similarties from the NFL re Draft, equalisation, there maybe more in store in terms of conferances if theyre able to continue to grow as they have in the last 30 years

 

[scotty13]

Wow... Was i confused for a while there, til I took notice of the 2003 date...

Another team in the AFL from SA may happen, but I doubt it will be for 20yrs or so. In 10yrs time, one would suspect 2 new sides may enter, one of which being Tassy, and the other coming from WA, Qld or NT. Then a further 10yrs on, SA may be able to enter a new side.

A composite side I dont feel would work. Lets say Norwood, West and Glenelg merge to form the new side. 2 things will happen, the crows membership base will be cut in half with their members moving to this new side as it is part of their SANFL team, or they will really struggle to get members, as their individual club supporters wont support the mass merger.

The best option for the AFL and SANFL would be to analyse the member base and supporters of each of the SANFL sides. Find out what pertentage of members are also members of an AFL side, and which AFL side it is. Whether supportes associate with an AFL side or just follow the game. Basically which ever club that has a perfect mix of money, potential memberships and success should be the side to enter the comp.

 

[Dujon11]

It's too late for Norwood, they had their chance......... but they played it safe and now have been consigned to relative irrelevance. Their colours are a part of the Crows guernsey, so I guess they have that.

Ha! The creed - Port Magpies exist to give blokes not good enough to play AFL a run.

 

[sturtman]

Why should the SANFL elevate to the AFL, when the AFL has joined the SANFL?

Norwood v Port Adelaide 03/04/14 Coopers Stadium 7:20pm

Just might give an indication of SA football passion. Port might want to play their "A" list that night...methinks!!

"Murder on The Dance Floor," is on the cards.