- Aug 9, 2012
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- #51
I supply them for the right price.
Politics Are taxes theft?
- Thread starter Dan26
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I supply them for the right price.
matwt73
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- Jun 5, 2011
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It's all very clever but the 'Austrian School' market capitalism model is more a thought experiment than any viable means of social interaction.
Hobbes dismissed the state of nature 400 years ago. Just because one would be relying on the size of ones bank balance rather than the size of ones sword would make life no less 'nasty, brutal and short'
- Aug 9, 2012
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- #53
Hobbes was an arseclown, and his writings have been utilised to stamp an intellectual imprimatur on British constitutional tyranny.
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If the government creates and regulates and arguably 'owns' the money, how can taxes possibly be considered theft?
Money can't exist independent of a government.
Money can't exist independent of a government.
I'd like to see 'selective taxes'. I did not support the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq - why should my taxes go towards these shitful wastes of life and finance? I'd stil pay the same tax rate as everyone else, but why couldn't my taxes be funnelled exclusively towards vital Australian infrastructure like health and education instead?
EDIT: Just read Hard_to_Beat's post - I'd like to differentiate between 'defending Australia' and 'foreign expeditionary conflict'. I'd support the former FROM OUR SHORES ALONE, but never the latter.
EDIT: Just read Hard_to_Beat's post - I'd like to differentiate between 'defending Australia' and 'foreign expeditionary conflict'. I'd support the former FROM OUR SHORES ALONE, but never the latter.
They've just put you in a prisoner of war camp. Next?
- Aug 9, 2012
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- #57
It's a hypothetical scenario. I don't see a credible alternative for Australia collecting taxes and being able to defend itself in what you propose.
- Aug 9, 2012
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- #59
I see little difference in supporting one tyranny over another.
I might choose a side because one had a more ethical stance.
I would certainly support someone like Hugo Chavez before I would risk my life to support the Liberal/Labor cartels.
It all depends on the circumstances.
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- #60
Money is just a form of exchange. That's all. You could exchange anything of value with somebody if you were both happy with the transaction.
Money (i.e paper money) was essentially created when people deposited gold in banks. These banks then issued paper notes in place of the gold and those paper notes started to be passed around.
Government doesn't create money anyway. When banks give out loans, new money is created out of thin air. Every loan a bank gives out increases the money supply. This is what creates inflation. It's scandalous, really.
Every cent out there is created out of debt when bansk give out loans. Not governments, but private banks.
This also means that if everybody paid off their debt, there would be no money. Because all money is created out of thin air, out of DEBT.
There has to be a better way to control money. The fact that all debts can be paid off, and then no money would exist, shows a failure of the system.
I'd like to see the central bank completely abolished, and the money supply increased only in line with population.
So what happens if I decide to support the war in Afghanistan (just for argument's sake) but choose not to fund the bureaucracy that supports the selective taxation arrangements scheme on account of it being a waste of money?
Should people who complain about taxes be allowed to get govt funded education or run businesses with employees who were publicly educated? Should people who complain about taxes be the ones that the poorer people steal from because crime becomes necessary without welfare? Should people who complain about taxes be allowed to travel on public roads or public transport? Should people who complain about taxes be afforded protection by both national military and local police? Should people who complain about taxes be allowed to use any sort of public health or live in a society where even the poorest are inoculated against disease to ensure that the herd is immune (yes hippies I'd make it compulsory).
Personally I'd answer no to all those and put you pricks up against a wall. You don't deserve to live.
Personally I'd answer no to all those and put you pricks up against a wall. You don't deserve to live.
Totally agree with you on much of this, shock horror. However, a form of society where economics is based upon socialism and meeting basic needs before anyone gets luxuries and libertarian principles are applied to anything anyone does that does not directly effect anyone else is the answer. Free markets without any sort of regulation will always tend monopolies and oligarchies, communism will lead to despots leading an economy devoid of innovation and motivation. Democracy needs to be improved so we don't get nutjobs like you stopping governments of taking the correct action because you think you know more than an expert in a fairly complex field.
If you don't pay taxes and there is no Australian defence force you don't get to choose between Labor and Liberal, something far less ethical and more tyrannical would get imposed upon you.
- Aug 9, 2012
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- #65
Spoken like a true slave.
I am open minded to alternative ideas but you should cease speaking in childish riddles if you wish to be taken seriously.
- Aug 9, 2012
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- #67
You cannot bully me with your narrow mindedness.
I reject your worldview.
I reject your worldview.
Knock yourself out big guy. Remember to include quotes from Mencken, Hayek, Smith and BoJo. Added bonus points for somehow managing to include Fairfax, latte and Keynes.
Possibly you could either a)pay tax as normal and where your tax goes is up to the government OR b)nominate areas you would like your tax dollars channelled towards. I think we should all still pay towards police & DEFENCE force wages though, with an increased tranparency of all public sector wages & benefits.
Think of it like voting for the Senate in an election - one tick above the line or, if you can be arsed, quite a few nominations below it.
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Does this include paying for the bureaucracy needed to forecast revenue and distribute taxes in accordance with the general public's (who by and large have NFI) nominations or is this implicit?
It would have to, yes. I don't know all the ins and outs of the system as it is NOW, yet I still sleepwalk through it. Education always seems to be the key, though. Right?
- Jul 31, 2011
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- #74
I bet taxes are low in Somalia
IMO taxes are a necessary evil. Most people don't mind taxes being spent on those less fortunate and in areas such as health and education. Generally, it's only when taxes are often wasted and misspent that people have a problem with it. Due to my own experiences as a kid, I'm pretty passionate about social justice and I think it's important for society to look out for the disadvantaged. I grew up with a Dad who was blind, had an extremely serious congenital heart condition and a very bad back. These three disabilities prevented him from participating in paid employment, (although he volunteered at places when he could).
For people who espouse Libertarian beliefs and think that taxes should be completely abolished, I've always wanted to know how someone like my Dad would survive in this Libertarian-Utopia that they espouse. I once spoke to a Libertarian who mumbled something about in his dream Libertarian world my Dad would survive on a combination of charity, church/NFP organisations and his family (my Dad was divorced from my Mum so his only family was his two young children!). Relying on handouts/food coupons from under-funded charities seems like a pretty degrading existence. While he hated it and wished he could do more, the small amount of money he got as a Disability Pension enabled him to live a semi-independent life. I think most reasonable people wouldn't begrudge their taxes going to meet the needs of disabled people like my Dad. From my experience, the people who believe in extreme Libertarianism are mostly privileged, sheltered middle class white boys who have never needed help.
For people who espouse Libertarian beliefs and think that taxes should be completely abolished, I've always wanted to know how someone like my Dad would survive in this Libertarian-Utopia that they espouse. I once spoke to a Libertarian who mumbled something about in his dream Libertarian world my Dad would survive on a combination of charity, church/NFP organisations and his family (my Dad was divorced from my Mum so his only family was his two young children!). Relying on handouts/food coupons from under-funded charities seems like a pretty degrading existence. While he hated it and wished he could do more, the small amount of money he got as a Disability Pension enabled him to live a semi-independent life. I think most reasonable people wouldn't begrudge their taxes going to meet the needs of disabled people like my Dad. From my experience, the people who believe in extreme Libertarianism are mostly privileged, sheltered middle class white boys who have never needed help.
